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[boredaf]

then look at Kargu

There is an entire UN Commission report about Kargu's autonomous use, as in Kargu-2 hunting a target without human interference, in Libya. We are talking about a kamikaze drone that has been exported to 10 countries here, nobody buys stuff like this if it was as useless as being claimed here. Few pictures, even few dozen pictures, prove nothing in a system like this. Failures are always easier to photograph after all.

You're also comparing drones that have munitions specifically designed to deal with armoured targets with a drone designed for use against personnel.

 

[Maximilien Robespierre]

Such systems have to be simple and cheap don't understand why we are complicating things so much. Take a FPV drone slap a RPG-7 warhead or Mortar shell on it and it's good to go.

Those weaponized toys terrorized the RuAF on the battlefield, they took IFV, APC and Tanks out with those things ffs and then look at Kargu, LOL.
View attachment 62472

We need drones like these kargu seems Unefficent in combat don't like the current claymore setup but If they start giving it warhead like these It could be a game changer just look at the ukrainian FPV drones.

 

[CAN_TR]

There is an entire UN Commission report about Kargu's autonomous use, as in Kargu-2 hunting a target without human interference, in Libya. We are talking about a kamikaze drone that has been exported to 10 countries here, nobody buys stuff like this if it was as useless as being claimed here. Few pictures, even few dozen pictures, prove nothing in a system like this. Failures are always easier to photograph after all.

You're also comparing drones that have munitions specifically designed to deal with armoured targets with a drone designed for use against personnel.

Well the autonomous part and night feature is nice but the warhead lacks lethality. Those features are probaly interesting for MIT and Special Forces but in a large scale conflict Kargu is definitely too expensive and complicated (production). All the technology it has for a drone simply carrying a Claymore.

Ukrainians also used FPV's with grenade/mortars and frag. RPG7 warhead attached on against soft targets and vehicles, pretty effective.

 

[boredaf]

but in a large scale conflict Kargu is definitely too expensive and complicated (production)

We wouldn't be using Kargu in a large scale conflict though. Ukranians are using FPV drones with munitions because they lack control of their own airspace and because of that they can't properly support their troops. If we are ever in that situation we'd be already fucked because there are only a handful of countries that can render our air force inert like that.

We also have mortar dropping drone already, STM's Boyga drops 81mm mortar rounds, and we have Mete that we can use against light armored targets. There are lessons to be learned from Ukraine, but cheap drones with RPGs aren't one of them imo.

 

[Heartbang]

There is an entire UN Commission report about Kargu's autonomous use,

More like a single, murky sentence in a rather general report about Libya. A slander sniper shot. But we are getting ahead of ourselves.

Logistics convoys and retreating HAF were subsequently hunted down and remotely engaged by the unmanned combat aerial vehicles or the lethal autonomous weapons systems such as the STM Kargu-2 (see annex 30) and other loitering munitions. The lethal autonomous weapons systems were programmed to attack targets without requiring data connectivity between the operator and the munition: in effect, a true “fire, forget and find” capability.

ODS HOME PAGE

Multilingual interface of the UN Official Documents System

documents-dds-ny.un.org

 

[Era_shield]

I know how the warhead of the drone works. The problem is not in the directional warhead, if it is direct impact or not. The problem is the weak warhead that can't even lead to a good level of disintegration of a couple plastic parts.

This is from Azerbaijan in May. 2 wounded.

View attachment 62444

This is from Syria in August where the drone didn't even explode.

View attachment 62446

These are only in result of a shallow research. If I try harder I will find many, many more visual evidence of either faults or low effect on targets.

This drone has serious problems that needs to be sorted out but unfortunately no news regarding it as far as I can see. The drone in its current state is not effective and this is the least I can say based on what I saw trough the years of following the developments in areas where it was used.

It is hurting when I open up a video from Ukraine and see a drone made in someone's basement with parts purchased from Aliexpress doing a better job than it while we all know the sophisticated software Kargu uses, the fact that it is military spec rated performing like a firecracker. This is not right.

It's outrageous that such an inefficient design is in service of the TSK. The Kargu has some sophisticated capabilities but the drone destroys itself after only 1 use. Even if the small warhead is improved it would still be wasteful in a real war-time situation to throw away sophisticated drone components like this. Instead of self-destructing, it should accurately lob a grenade or mortar at its target using ballistics calculations and then return to base. Not only would it have more firepower but for the same cost you could attack 20 or more targets.

 

[neosinan]

It is doubtful that Kargu would cost more than 10-20k$ at most. Thus Even If We bought 10.000 Kargu that would cost 100-200m$. A couple thousand Kargu is enough to Eliminate whatever our enemies throw at us. For such small and low cost weapons, we need more of them, No need to look for cheaper/lower quality quadcopter.

 

[Maximilien Robespierre]

It is doubtful that Kargu would cost more than 10-20k$ at most. Thus Even If We bought 10.000 Kargu that would cost 100-200m$. A couple thousand Kargu is enough to Eliminate whatever our enemies throw at us. For such small and low cost weapons, we need more of them, No need to look for cheaper/lower quality quadcopter.

Kargu is expensive and not very efficent you need thousands of thousands suicide drones kargu has a very weak war head It can't eliminate what our enemies have be realistic.

 

[Maximilien Robespierre]

Why didn't TSK procured any Alpagu suicide drones?

 

[boredaf]

Why didn't TSK procured any Alpagu suicide drones?

Do you mean Alpagut? Because Alpagu is STM's drone with less than 0.5 kg warhead, so it is 1/3 of Kargu. Alpagut is Roketsan and STM's combined product and it hasn't started serial production yet.

 

[Oublious]

You can not compar Alpagu with cheap drones, it is a kamikaze drone what can fly in formation and attack airdefence systems like spaag.


TB3

 

[boredaf]

You can not compar Alpagu with cheap drones, it is a kamikaze drone what can fly in formation and attack airdefence systems like spaag.

What? It has 10 kms of range, 15 minutes endurance and 300 grams warhead, how is it going to attack air defence exactly? You guys are either confusing it with Alpagut with T, or really misinformed about it. Even STM doesn't claim what you wrote.

For further clarity, this is Alpagu: https://www.stm.com.tr/en/alpagu

And this is Alpagut: https://www.roketsan.com.tr/tr/urunler/alpagut-akilli-dolanan-muhimmat-sistemi

Completely different products with waaaaaaay different profiles.

 

[Oublious]

What? It has 10 kms of range, 15 minutes endurance and 300 grams warhead, how is it going to attack air defence exactly? You guys are either confusing it with Alpagut with T, or really misinformed about it. Even STM doesn't claim what you wrote.

For further clarity, this is Alpagu: https://www.stm.com.tr/en/alpagu

And this is Alpagut: https://www.roketsan.com.tr/tr/urunler/alpagut-akilli-dolanan-muhimmat-sistemi

Completely different products with waaaaaaay different profiles.

First Kargu have better specs and the explosive payload is 1.3 kg, you can add different payload like a HE-fragmentation warheads. Like the drones in Ukrains, Lancet is a good example 12 kg drone and Kargu is something like Lancet. Kargu can hover in the air and attack when it see the enemy.

Lancet in Ukraine against Iris, what can 1/3 kg explosion can do?

 

[boredaf]

First Kargu have better specs and the explosive payload is 1.3 kg, you can add different payload like a HE-fragmentation warheads. Like the drones in Ukrains, Lancet is a good example 12 kg drone and Kargu is something like Lancet. Kargu can hover in the air and attack when it see the enemy.

Lancet in Ukraine against Iris, what can 1/3 kg explosion can do?

View attachment 62525

Mate, you said Alpagu, not Kargu.

 

[Oublious]

 

[Oublious]

Mate, you said Alpagu, not Kargu.

sorry men i mean kargu ...

 

[UkroTurk]

For a bigger warhead thing there was the forgotten blessing called ASELSAN VİHA.

It isn't only carrying a larger warhead at 3.5 kg. Its diving speed also reaches about 250+ km/h, far more than KARGU.

It can be folded down and recovered smoothly
View attachment 62445

Up up up.

I hate the word" game changer " but those are really changing engagement doctrines .

I think this VİHA will become new Carl Gustaf or RPG-7 of the platoons.

 

[Kaan Azman]

We havent heard anything about of VİHA sadly, as much as I'd like to hear even the smallest thing

 

[Maximilien Robespierre]

Do you mean Alpagut? Because Alpagu is STM's drone with less than 0.5 kg warhead, so it is 1/3 of Kargu. Alpagut is Roketsan and STM's combined product and it hasn't started serial production yet.

Isn't alpagu close to switchblade sorry for my Ignorance.

 

[Ryder]

That explains why Kargu despite hitting targets has not really done so many casualties.

What is really the aim of the kargu?

Could Kargu just be more of an experiment just for STM to improve its products?