TR UAV/UCAV Programs | Anka - series | Kızılelma | TB - series

boredaf

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Some people in a huge company working to exhaustion is not same as that company overall being more productive. Same country, similar circumstances government owned company sells ANKA drones to a handful of nations other private company sell theirs to 30+ nations. Calling this normal is nonsense. What kept TUSAS from releasing videos of ANKA, routinely destroying Russian air defenses? What kept them from finding a solution to Pakistan's Atak engine problem without losing $1.5 BILLION? They didn't have the drive to do so. What keeps ASELSAN from producing 500 CATS for TB2 or exporting thousands a year to other foreign air platforms?
Simply put, workers are not benefitting personally from added workload and there is not a minimum performance requirement. In America some companies give bonuses to best performers and they also fire worst performing 10% each year. Can you even imagine the revolt if you do that in TUSAS or ASELSAN both are like government jobs?
Oh please stop this shite. Sucking US capitalism lmao. I don't know what your gripe is with Tusaş or Aselsan but you clearly understand nothing at all about production lines and capabilities, on top of demand and supply. Minimum performance requirement, that is hilarious.
 
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DBdev

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Oh please stop this shite. Sucking US capitalism lmao. I don't know what your gripe is with Tusaş or Aselsan but you clearly understand nothing at all about production lines and capabilities, on top of demand and supply. Minimum performance requirement, that is hilarious.
And what Türkiye is not capitalist? Even China is capitalist. You can't hide behind socialism or communism anymore to cover up institutionalized governmental inefficiency, poor work ethics due to unmonitored personal performance or overall low output, sales and profits. In a World of multi-trillion dollar companies these things are more important than ever. Pointing out mistakes is not a problem, covering them up and ignoring them is.
 

DBdev

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Lad, show me a proper example of any of these from Tusaş or Aselsan, not just "BuT tHeIr SaLeS aRe LoW!!!111!!1!" You are not "pointing out mistakes" you're talking out of your arse.
Learn to talk like a grown up. I am probably older than you.

Aselsan is bragging about having 10 billion dollars backlog due to slow production rates.
STM is bragging about making only 3000 quadcopters for all these years.
TUSAS doesn't even flinch when they lose a $1.5 billion already signed contract.
I have no knowledge of bonus systems of Aselsan or TUSAS, but I would be baffled if they had performance based wages like most fortune 500 companies and yet they churn out these low production rates that are barely enough for Türkiye let alone other potential global buyers from 100+ nations. They go to fairs and they come back. That is the whole marketing strategy.

Türkiye has only %1 of around half trillion dollars a year global weapons exports market. What other number do you need to figure out this is not some big success?
 

Huelague

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Nonsense?
What real motivation workers, bosses at TUSAS or ASELSAN have to produce 20 times more by engaging with other 150+ nations effectively? 12 drones a year will get them off the hook with government and keep them employed until they retire. Pushing workers, resources to produce 500 drones a year, wouldn't earn Kotil anything but a revolt, firing because of subordinate complaints to politicians or a strike. Insulting me has become common place here. That was supposed to be against the rules. But even admins are breaking the rule of no personal attacks, insults.
You should listen to T. Kotil about „employees motivation“. He’s really clear about that. What’s your point here? TAI employees are lazy? Don’t mass produce 100000 Atak or Aksungur per day? Their export numbers are to low?

Btw, compare both portfolios, Baykar and TUSAS has. How many projects has both companies?
 

IC3M@N FX

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Well, there must be a reason why you rarely hear about TAI drones.
It also seems that the export of these drones is much more restrictive than that of Baykar drones.
TAI and the Turkish state are deliberately not actively promoting them.
It also seems that these drones are geared more towards personal use than commercial success in the form of sales to all countries.
There are only a handful of countries that have Anka drones. I also don't believe that every country considering buying Turkish drones is actively being offered Anka/Aksungur drones.

My theory is that the technology behind Anka/Aksungur, e.g. the software and hardware, is much more sensitive and advanced than that of Baykar drones.
The TAI Anka S also generally cost a lot more than the Baykar TB2 S drones, which seem to be more comparable in level to the Reaper drones, with the TB2 S being more of a scaled down Predator drone.
The fact that Anka S drones are not supplied to Ukraine, Poland & Co. should also give food for thought, it seems that only very close partners such as Azerbaijan & Co. have access to them, possibly a technology is used here that is top secret.
It is also possible that the companies are deliberately structured so that Baykar as a private company under the umbrella of the state and the entire defense industry as a commercial company is geared towards export, where Aselsan, Roketsan & Co, have the opportunity to earn money by selling components & software to Baykar.
Companies like TAI, which are largely state-owned, have a different focus. They are more of technology carriers where partners like Aselsan, Havelsan, Roketsan & Co have the opportunity to develop technologies for platform XY and thus create synergies from which Baykar also benefits for its products, which then actively go abroad as exports through their channel.

This is of course pure speculation on my part, but it would make perfect sense.
 

Ripley

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Well, there must be a reason why you rarely hear about TAI drones.
It also seems that the export of these drones is much more restrictive than that of Baykar drones.
TAI and the Turkish state are deliberately not actively promoting them.
It also seems that these drones are geared more towards personal use than commercial success in the form of sales to all countries.
There are only a handful of countries that have Anka drones. I also don't believe that every country considering buying Turkish drones is actively being offered Anka/Aksungur drones.

My theory is that the technology behind Anka/Aksungur, e.g. the software and hardware, is much more sensitive and advanced than that of Baykar drones.
The TAI Anka S also generally cost a lot more than the Baykar TB2 S drones, which seem to be more comparable in level to the Reaper drones, with the TB2 S being more of a scaled down Predator drone.
The fact that Anka S drones are not supplied to Ukraine, Poland & Co. should also give food for thought, it seems that only very close partners such as Azerbaijan & Co. have access to them, possibly a technology is used here that is top secret.
It is also possible that the companies are deliberately structured so that Baykar as a private company under the umbrella of the state and the entire defense industry as a commercial company is geared towards export, where Aselsan, Roketsan & Co, have the opportunity to earn money by selling components & software to Baykar.
Companies like TAI, which are largely state-owned, have a different focus. They are more of technology carriers where partners like Aselsan, Havelsan, Roketsan & Co have the opportunity to develop technologies for platform XY and thus create synergies from which Baykar also benefits for its products, which then actively go abroad as exports through their channel.

This is of course pure speculation on my part, but it would make perfect sense.
It really makes sense.
Particularly, this

“Companies like TAI, which are largely state-owned, have a different focus. They are more of technology carriers where partners like Aselsan, Havelsan, Roketsan & Co have the opportunity to develop technologies for platform XY and thus create synergies from which Baykar also benefits for its products, which then actively go abroad as exports through their channel.”

I like to add that, TAI for instance, seems really enthusiastic to create technology therefore investing on human element by opening offices at S. East Asia and elsewhere to devise a sort of technology creation network with a good amount of know-how.
Mr. Kotil once jokingly told that he would recruit kids from high schools.
 

I_Love_F16

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Let’s get real and acknowledge that TAI didn’t export as much as it could, especially for a company of that size. Doesn’t really matter if they work on a lot of projects.

They could have earnt a lot of cash if they would have properly introduced their products, ‘’a la Baykar’’.
 

Quasar

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dont know may be we should also take into account the fact that for BAYKAR there is only one product to sell i.e UAVs, when TAI's long list of products are matured I am expecting an export revolution ....lets give TAI some time :devilish:
 
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TR_123456

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Let’s get real and acknowledge that TAI didn’t export as much as it could, especially for a company of that size. Doesn’t really matter if they work on a lot of projects.

They could have earnt a lot of cash if they would have properly introduced their products, ‘’a la Baykar’’.
TAI's focus is not on export,there's the difference.
Baykar has to make money to survive,TAI as a state institution doesnt.
 

IC3M@N FX

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As the previous speaker said, since TAI is state-owned.
The focus is not the export, but the focus is the development of weapon systems that Turkey needs to be able to defend itself.
If you like, you can even say that TAI is developing a reference platform for everyone, so that companies have the opportunity to develop components such as engines, missiles, software, radar, etc. In principle, a synergy is created.
If, for example, a new drone manufacturer were to enter the Turkish market, it would not be starting from scratch.
Instead, it would get the radar, engine, camera, software + hardware components off the shelf from TEI, ASELSAN, HAVELSAN, ROKETSAN & Co because there was already a reference platform beforehand.
The best comparison is with the Android operating system, which is Google's reference platform, but manufacturers build their own operating systems based on Android as Android forks.
And it's the same with drones, TAI introduces the reference platform and Vestel, Baykar & Co. then build their own drones because the hardware is there from TEI, ASELSAN, HAVELSAN, ROKETSAN & Co.
 

uçuyorum

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TAI is being used as a locomotive to acquire technology and capabilities for indigenization, it was many times expected to use local parts where it could readily buy existing products and faced delays as a result. But some of these setbacks prepared infrastructure for capabilities we have today. You don't get ASELFLIR500 without building ASELFLIR 200/300 for Anka and T129. It has disadvantages as well, but as we remove obstacles for export things should improve for them.
 

Ravager

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Let’s get real and acknowledge that TAI didn’t export as much as it could, especially for a company of that size. Doesn’t really matter if they work on a lot of projects.

They could have earnt a lot of cash if they would have properly introduced their products, ‘’a la Baykar’’.

Without a " thinktank " entity ... All of those progress are going to stagnated and wither away ...
A driver platform who in turn energize and complemented the next innovation/itteration that grew on demand/neccesity .
It's the whole cycles ... And it's a healthy one
 

zio

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An aircraft carrier is useful by guarding your six when you deal with the target in your sights. You can send a fuel tanker along your strike plane to extend range which a version of Anka3 is to play this roll. We do need bombers but only after we have everything else.
TurAF has no plan basket feeding method for fighters and tankers it should be,for stealth uav tanker role,its also needed for air fueling for heicopters
 

Samba

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Being able to develop and manufacture strategic products is of high value and sometimes invaluable, and such ability also provides passive income hence you won't be importing the goods, meaning you will be saving money.

Consider how much billion dollars Türkiye has spent throughout the years for F16s, all of them and even more will stay in the state thanks to KAAN. Even if you don't export at all.
 

Sanchez

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Really doubt it. B61s in Turkey is also an iffy subject. Multiples reports going as far as back as 15-20 years say that after Cold War ended, Turkish pilots were no longer trained in using them. But same reports also say that F-16s were kept modernized for the role. Nuclear capable American fighters are also no longer based in Incirlik. If situation arose, they would need to fly away from another base, get loaded with them, and fly away. B61s in Turkey, and tbh in other nuclear share countries as well, is mostly for political commitments, rather than tactical concerns of a possible use case scenario.

Add to it, there have been no example of a drone carrying nuclear weapons, including for trials, none in US. Nuclear weapons are more of a political subject rather than tactical, so the possibility of a drone carrying nukes, will always have huge backlash from the population in any country. Really doubt US would even consider certifying B61s on Anka-3 when it doesn't on its own drones. And even if they did, who would pay for it?
 

BalkanTurk90

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Turkishcentury on X is claiming Anka-3 will become certified for B-61 tactical nuclear Bomb, is that Claim true ?

I have some Doubts, even german EF-2000 are not certified for nuclear Role!
Never , thats pure fake news , Perhaps only advanced 6gen fighters (drones) will be able to keep nukes .🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️
Let alone this tiny anka 3 drone with mediocre engine
 

IC3M@N FX

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I don't believe it either, despite all the honor and respect that our country has made out of nothing. Nevertheless, we should remain realistic. The Anka 3 drone will be inferior to the American and Chinese stealth drones in all respects.
Of the top 5 in the world, we are currently no. 4 or 5, even the British would be further ahead than us if they were to develop a stealth drone tomorrow.
We are slightly above Israel and Russia, who started too late with this type of weapon.

US stealth drone
1000000790.jpg


Chinese stealth drone
1000000791.jpg


The extremely clean workmanship alone on both drones and the fact that the engine sits very low in the fairing is in a completely different league.

Our Anka 3 drone looks more like it was designed by an intern.
 

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