TR UAV/UCAV Programs | Anka - series | Kızılelma | TB - series

[Ardabas34]

Now everything regarding how much these systems were successful aside, TB2s and Selcuk Bayraktar ARE being used as political weapons by the government. Lets accept this mere simple fact. This is a natural thing that happens in countries run by populist governments. So it would be weird if they werent used.


Modern warfare is conducted with the cooperation of many systems. It is never just one thing doing all the job.

If Turkey didnt have an industry that was building on the background, if those MAM-L, MAM-C werent made, if those Koral electronic warfare systems werent made these drones would only be used for surveillance. I looked at a lot of piece of media in youtube or in random news circulating around and it IS safe to say Baykar is stealing the show light due to political concerns. I mean you can reach to what is what just by a little digging, from more expert on subject Youtube channels or this forum, or websites like DefenceTurk but the face that ordinary people see is as mentioned above.

Even in reddit(or was it youtube?) I witnessed foreigners thinking this one man alone pushed the entire industry above on his own. This is unfair to many engineers that worked in TAI, Aselsan, Roketsan. I actually went onto a conversation with a person saying there are other drones too and he told me if they are as good, why dont they sell as much? I tried to explain to him Anka are more strategical assets so they are more expensive compared to tactical cheaper TB-2s and also that we sold them to Tunis.
So this is a good example to give a glimpse on the reality.
Also in popular videos like Game of Drones they always ignore TAI-built drones. If there were only TB-2s I would say okay. Okay, there arent that many ANKA footages out there so I understand why it is mostly TB-2 footage but they also showed the upcoming Akincis pictures while leaving out Aksungur.

 

[Philip the Arab]

In this globalised world its normal to have foreign parts.

Yes, the world is very globalised and this is normal which is why I could care less if the UAE uses a lot of foreign components on any military projects.

 

[Combat-Master]

Now everything regarding how much these systems were successful aside, TB2s and Selcuk Bayraktar ARE being used as political weapons by the government. Lets accept this mere simple fact. This is a natural thing that happens in countries run by populist governments. So it would be weird if they werent used.
You can count on my neutral observation skills on this.

Modern warfare is conducted with the cooperation of many systems. It is never just one thing doing all the job.

If Turkey didnt have an industry that was building on the background, if those MAM-L, MAM-C werent made, if those Koral electronic warfare systems werent made these drones would only be used for surveillance. I looked at a lot of piece of media in youtube or in random news circulating around and it IS safe to say Baykar is stealing the show light due to political concerns. I mean you can reach to what is what just by a little digging, from more expert on subject Youtube channels or this forum, or websites like DefenceTurk but the face that ordinary people see is as mentioned above.

Even in reddit(or was it youtube?) I witnessed foreigners thinking this one man alone pushed the entire industry above on his own. This is unfair to many engineers that worked in TAI, Aselsan, Roketsan. I actually went onto a conversation with a person saying there are other drones too and he told me if they are as good, why dont they sell as much? I tried to explain to him Anka are more strategical assets so they are more expensive compared to tactical cheaper TB-2s and also that we sold them to Tunis.
So this is a good example to give a glimpse on the reality.
Also in popular videos like Game of Drones they always ignore TAI-built drones. If there were only TB-2s I would say okay. Okay, there arent that many ANKA footages out there so I understand why it is mostly TB-2 footage but they also showed the upcoming Akincis pictures while leaving out Aksungur.

That's one way of looking at it, another way would be seeing story of someone who worked incredibly hard, refused working for foreign companies and instead fought to develop a company, successful company inside Turkey. A sort of "Turkish Dream", it's incredibly important that youngsters have a role model to look up to, especially in a country like Turkey - where we have historical figures mostly.

Teknofest for instance is something that Baykar is a contributor of.

TAI or Vestel does not have that story, they are both companies that are already successful.

 

[TheInsider]

That's one way of looking at it, another way would be seeing story of someone who worked incredibly hard, refused working for foreign companies and instead fought to develop a company, successful company inside Turkey. A sort of "Turkish Dream", it's incredibly important that youngsters have a role model to look up to, especially in a country like Turkey - where we have historical figures mostly.

Teknofest for instance is something that Baykar is a contributor of.

TAI or Vestel does not have that story, they are both companies that are already successful.

This is good and true but this shouldn't turn into favoritism. I have witnessed many people over the years on the internet bragging about Tb2s %93 national production rate meanwhile Anka was much more national and local. They were misguided for years.
Bright minds like the Bayraktar brothers and great companies like Baykar don't need incorrect claims.

 

[Combat-Master]

This is good and true but this shouldn't turn into favoritism. I have witnessed many people over the years on the internet bragging about Tb2s %93 national production rate meanwhile Anka was much more national and local. They were misguided for years.
Bright minds like the Bayraktar brothers and great companies like Baykar don't need incorrect claims.

I don't care much about favouritism/tribalism as long as the bottom-line motive is to enhance Turkey's national capabilities.
TB1 did have very high national contribution, not sure if it was over 90% - TB1 was a basic UAV. Baykar even tried to develop E/O turret for TB1 as well with parts attained from FLIR as Aselsan did not have a suitable E/O ball. I haven't seen such claims made for TB2 of +90% national contribution.

 

[Ardabas34]

That's one way of looking at it, another way would be seeing story of someone who worked incredibly hard, refused working for foreign companies and instead fought to develop a company, successful company inside Turkey. A sort of "Turkish Dream", it's incredibly important that youngsters have a role model to look up to, especially in a country like Turkey - where we have historical figures mostly.

Teknofest for instance is something that Baykar is a contributor of.

TAI or Vestel does not have that story, they are both companies that are already successful.

So you are saying Selcuk Bayraktar can be a good role model for Turkish kids.
Thats good and all but it doesnt fit to the photograph when we include the insistive ''local and national'' emphasis in the media, also he did bash on the opposition on TV programmes, plus most important of all we know the character of Tayyip and his Akp at this point really.

Dont get me wrong I am not one of those obsessed with ''local and national'' as long as the foreign parts are commercial or easily changeable with local parts in case of an embargo. I care about the added value.
Israeli Herons also have Austrian rotax engines. American Predators also have Austrian rotax engines.
So like I said I have no problem with it but they tell these wrong info to people because they know people like to hear this and opposition also likes to emphasise on how much of the product is exported. This political shitstorm is a natural result of Selcuk Bayraktar being involved in politics. Being Erdogans son in law was enough for this and he also went onto TV programmes and bashed on the opposition. Well at this point Aktrolls go on and say we will be a superpower thanks to this drones, opposition says it is all exported stuff modified at Turkey. When you use a useful person as a poster face of your political party, naturally you point him as a target to the oppositions criticisms. Is there anything more natural than that?

Because there is no reason to show children a role model that insists on only local and national products. That isnt a good message for entrepreneurship. A good entrepreneur would do whatever is the most feasible and focus on the ''added value'' and from what I see that is what Selcuk Bayraktar did and thats where these drones succeses have come from. They were made with cheap commercial products except for the camera system which is interchangable with Aselsans cameras.

A product has to be feasible and the thing with these TB-2s, they are very feasible and I think this is the real reason why they insisted on Canadian wescam rather than Aselsan built ones. Because Canadians have been doing this for so long, a basic rule of economy, if you produce so much of a product the price will go down.

 

[TheInsider]

I dont mind Bayraktars having a political side, openly supporting AKP or openly criticizing the opposition. What I care about is what you claim should be true(especially if it is a technical issue like the percentage of national contribution) and no favoritism should be done because of your special conditions.

 

[Zafer]

I dont mind Bayraktars having a political side, openly supporting AKP or openly criticizing the opposition. What I care about is what you claim should be true(especially if it is a technical issue like the percentage of national contribution) and no favoritism should be done because of your special conditions.

Baykar's special condition is they brought Turkey the capability to drop bombs on enemies which otherwise would probably take another decade for our industry to accomplish. Because they cared.

 

[Anmdt]

Baykar's special condition is they brought Turkey the capability to drop bombs on enemies which otherwise would probably take another decade for our industry to accomplish

Really?
Ignoring success of Roketsan & TAI at once, with a single line sentence this easily and everything is happening thanks to Baykar?

 

[Philip the Arab]

Really?
Ignoring success of Roketsan & TAI at once, with a single line sentence this easily and everything is happening thanks to Baykar?

Without Roketsan they would be dropping precision guided rocks from the TB2

 

[Combat-Master]

So you are saying Selcuk Bayraktar can be a good role model for Turkish kids.
Thats good and all but it doesnt fit to the photograph when we include the insistive ''local and national'' emphasis in the media, also he did bash on the opposition on TV programmes, plus most important of all we know the character of Tayyip and his Akp at this point really.

Dont get me wrong I am not one of those obsessed with ''local and national'' as long as the foreign parts are commercial or easily changeable with local parts in case of an embargo. I care about the added value.
Israeli Herons also have Austrian rotax engines. American Predators also have Austrian rotax engines.
So like I said I have no problem with it but they tell these wrong info to people because they know people like to hear this and opposition also likes to emphasise on how much of the product is exported. This political shitstorm is a natural result of Selcuk Bayraktar being involved in politics. Being Erdogans son in law was enough for this and he also went onto TV programmes and bashed on the opposition. Well at this point Aktrolls go on and say we will be a superpower thanks to this drones, opposition says it is all exported stuff modified at Turkey. When you use a useful person as a poster face of your political party, naturally you point him as a target to the oppositions criticisms. Is there anything more natural than that?

Because there is no reason to show children a role model that insists on only local and national products. That isnt a good message for entrepreneurship. A good entrepreneur would do whatever is the most feasible and focus on the ''added value'' and from what I see that is what Selcuk Bayraktar did and thats where these drones succeses have come from. They were made with cheap commercial products except for the camera system which is interchangable with Aselsans cameras.

A product has to be feasible and the thing with these TB-2s, they are very feasible and I think this is the real reason why they insisted on Canadian wescam rather than Aselsan built ones. Because Canadians have been doing this for so long, a basic rule of economy, if you produce so much of a product the price will go down.

That's exactly what I am saying yes, Bayraktar brothers and their parents best role model Turkey has. Their past along with their ambitions is on the wall for all to see, criticise or embellish.
I'm no fan of politics, but I've read comments of the opposition parties bashing the use of armed UAVs - if he lashed out in tandem to those comments then fair play to him.
He is targeted by the opposition for being son in law of Erdogan - and that's fine. I've seen members of this forum doing a full 180 on their view of Baykar (you know who you are lol) , just because of being the son in law - that's fine too. They have to work twice as hard for approval

It's critical to show children that Turkey is capable of doing what we lacked doing in the past, I'm sure you're aware of the underlaying divisive psychological issues Turkey had with doing anything national - Turkey had a 'we can't do' attitude, this attitude is still present in generations aged 30+. That's what we need to eradicate and that's why I see Bayraktars as spearheading this change;

-TR Teknoloji Takımı
-TEKNOFEST

They are feasible because they were developed to be cost-effective tactical drones - 12hr endurance was the requirement. Serial production version of TB2 achieved 28hrs - Vestel Karayel-SU managed 20 hours. Both excellent achievements. Case of E/O, yes that's one of the reasons why Wescam was preferred.

 

[Zafer]

Really?
Ignoring success of Roketsan & TAI at once, with a single line sentence this easily and everything is happening thanks to Baykar?

If it wasn't for Baykar Roketsan and Aselsan wouldn't even think of making those bombs.
Now who made things happen; those who could do but wouldn't do or that who made those who can do do their parts. The fact that Roketsan and Aselsan played their parts do not change the fact that without Baykar they would not bid an eyelid to make those small bombs. And Turkey would have to wait decades longer to have that capability if ever as if that capability was not acquired in a timely manner Turkey would not be able to find the strength to stand up against the opposing powers who would use FETO to block the ways Turkey can make it. It is only because that Baykar has been the spearhead to break the envelope and brought in the necessary component to make a whole that complementing it became inevitable for the rest of the industry.

Without Baykar we would be talking about how those kind of technologies is outside our reach and only two countries can have them.

 

[Combat-Master]

Baykar's special condition is they brought Turkey the capability to drop bombs on enemies which otherwise would probably take another decade for our industry to accomplish. Because they cared.

TAI ANKA did it first in October 2013 with Roketsan's Cirit. Armed Ankas are still being used covertly.
Armed TB2 made it more cost effective.

 

[Combat-Master]

'No damage to Turkish drone maker from Canadian move'

Canada's cancellation of drone technology export permits to Turkey will not harm major Turkish aviation firm Baykar, its chief technology officer said on Wednesday.

Criticizing the cancellation, Selcuk Byraktar said on Twitter that if Turkey decides not to sell Canada armed unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV) during an emergency, this may cause it serious problems as Turkey is one of only four countries in the world that make battle-tested drones.

Foreign Minister Marc Garneau announced on Monday that Canada was canceling arms sales permits to Turkey. The decision came after last year it suspended sales over allegations that its technology was being used in Turkish support for Azerbaijan’s effort to liberate the Upper Karabakh region from Armenian occupation.

On Monday, Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu asked Canada to review the restrictions and review the policy, while Turkey voiced its "discomfort" over the embargo.

Bayraktar stressed in his statement that Baykar's TB2 armed drone had been developed with an "entirely national and unique design," including all of its components, computers, software, hardware, aerodynamics, and mechanics.

"We proudly produce it with 93% domestic contributions, which can be counted as a world record," he added.

Noting that Baykar exports the drones to several countries, he said that the parts Turkey had imported from Canada, including camera components, are already being developed and produced domestically.

Following Canada's suspension decision last year, Turkish defense giant Aselsan developed and produced Common Aperture Targeting System cameras.

Bayraktar stressed that Canada, like many other countries with advanced aviation sectors, currently does not possess UAVs or armed UAVs of the classes Turkey produces.

"Embargoes have been around for years since we started this business, but none of them could stop us," he added.

'No damage to Turkish drone maker from Canadian move'

Canada's cancellation of drone technology export permits to Turkey will not harm major Turkish aviation firm Baykar, its chief technology officer said on Wednesday. Criticizing the...

defensehere.com

 

[Zafer]

TAI ANKA did it first in October 2013 with Roketsan's Cirit. Armed Ankas are still being used covertly.
Armed TB2 made it more cost effective.

I can't vouch for dates but if you can remember there was no operational capability until Baykar dropped the first bomb. After which Turkey's destiny in tackling terrorism has made a sharp turn towards victory from many decades long failures.

 

[Turko]

That's exactly what I am saying yes, Bayraktar brothers and their parents best role model Turkey has. Their past along with their ambitions is on the wall for all to see, criticise or embellish.
I'm no fan of politics, but I've read comments of the opposition parties bashing the use of armed UAVs - if he lashed out in tandem to those comments then fair play to him.
He is targeted by the opposition for being son in law of Erdogan - and that's fine. I've seen members of this forum doing a full 180 on their view of Baykar (you know who you are lol) , just because of being the son in law - that's fine too. They have to work twice as hard for approval

It's critical to show children that Turkey is capable of doing what we lacked doing in the past, I'm sure you're aware of the underlaying divisive psychological issues Turkey had with doing anything national - Turkey had a 'we can't do' attitude, this attitude is still present in generations aged 30+. That's what we need to eradicate and that's why I see Bayraktars as spearheading this change;

-TR Teknoloji Takımı
-TEKNOFEST

They are feasible because they were developed to be cost-effective tactical drones - 12hr endurance was the requirement. Serial production version of TB2 achieved 28hrs - Vestel Karayel-SU managed 20 hours. Both excellent achievements. Case of E/O, yes that's one of the reasons why Wescam was preferred.

What would happen now if Vestel's owner Nazif Zorlu have given his granddaughter/ grandson to Erdoğan's family 20 years ago?

 

[Nutuk]

Drone and bomb are like chicken and egg. Both need each other to exist and be effective.

Those are one of the best products the Turkish defense industry produced and made us all proud. But MAM-L type bombs are rather small and have a limited impact, yes they take out tanks, armored vehicles, AD systems but we need also bigger bombs to take out infrastructure (bridges, airports, viaducts, railroads, electricity stations) to paralyze the enemy.

In small UAV's Turkey has been successful, now it is time for medium UAV's (Aksungur, Akinci) to be followed by strategic UAV's (jet engined). For this we need both Baykar and Tusas. Our companies have to play as team players and not individual talents.

 

[Combat-Master]

I can't vouch for dates but if you can remember there was no operational capability until Baykar dropped the first bomb. After which Turkey's destiny in tackling terrorism has made a sharp turn towards victory from many decades long failures.

Whoever in the armed forces that developed the textbook in utilising Turkey's current UCAV capabilities deserves a jolly good old pat on the back.

 

[Tornadoss]

'No damage to Turkish drone maker from Canadian move'

Canada's cancellation of drone technology export permits to Turkey will not harm major Turkish aviation firm Baykar, its chief technology officer said on Wednesday.

Criticizing the cancellation, Selcuk Byraktar said on Twitter that if Turkey decides not to sell Canada armed unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV) during an emergency, this may cause it serious problems as Turkey is one of only four countries in the world that make battle-tested drones.

Foreign Minister Marc Garneau announced on Monday that Canada was canceling arms sales permits to Turkey. The decision came after last year it suspended sales over allegations that its technology was being used in Turkish support for Azerbaijan’s effort to liberate the Upper Karabakh region from Armenian occupation.

On Monday, Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu asked Canada to review the restrictions and review the policy, while Turkey voiced its "discomfort" over the embargo.

Bayraktar stressed in his statement that Baykar's TB2 armed drone had been developed with an "entirely national and unique design," including all of its components, computers, software, hardware, aerodynamics, and mechanics.

"We proudly produce it with 93% domestic contributions, which can be counted as a world record," he added.

Noting that Baykar exports the drones to several countries, he said that the parts Turkey had imported from Canada, including camera components, are already being developed and produced domestically.

Following Canada's suspension decision last year, Turkish defense giant Aselsan developed and produced Common Aperture Targeting System cameras.

Bayraktar stressed that Canada, like many other countries with advanced aviation sectors, currently does not possess UAVs or armed UAVs of the classes Turkey produces.

"Embargoes have been around for years since we started this business, but none of them could stop us," he added.

'No damage to Turkish drone maker from Canadian move'

Canada's cancellation of drone technology export permits to Turkey will not harm major Turkish aviation firm Baykar, its chief technology officer said on Wednesday. Criticizing the...

defensehere.com

I hope new version of Aselsan flir with higher resolution unveils sooner.

 

[Combat-Master]

I hope new version of Aselsan flir with higher resolution unveils sooner.

Higher resolution FLIR is not even the real issue - did you notice that majority of the footage we see from Karabagh is mostly from daylight camera? Even higher resolution FLIR is problematic at range

Aselsan has to produce in vast quantities. We have so many projects that require it

-T629
-T929
-TB3
-AKSUNGUR
-ANKA
-SIGINT JET

I'm not going into the land and naval needs, Aselsan MGEO has their work cut for them - I won't be surprised if we see foreign sensors still..