TR UAV/UCAV Programs | Anka - series | Kızılelma | TB - series

[Quasar]

It seems like it is not as important as you think, since Baykar is using Azra datalink instead of Aselsan products, and SSB and TAF look to be okay with this. BTW, both KAAN and Anka 3 will have Aselsan datalinks; there is no ambiguity on that front. TAF and SSB may ask Baykar to integrate Aselsan datalink to the Kızılelmas that will be delivered to TAF, but it looks like it is not a priority to Baykar. It is Baykar's project, so Baykar's rules and Baykar's priorities. Baykar chose Aselsan EOTS and Aselsan radar(tbh they are the only choices for those subsystems) for its UCAV, but not Aselsan datalink.

Baykar's rules and Baykar's priorities ok lets try this way.... what is Azra data link? what is T link and what is a directional data link? and what they do ?

 

[Ahlatshah]

It seems like it is not as important as you think, since Baykar is using Azra datalink instead of Aselsan products, and SSB and TAF look to be okay with this. BTW, both KAAN and Anka 3 will have Aselsan datalinks; there is no ambiguity on that front. TAF and SSB may ask Baykar to integrate Aselsan datalink to the Kızılelmas that will be delivered to TAF, but it looks like it is not a priority to Baykar. It is Baykar's project, so Baykar's rules and Baykar's priorities. Baykar chose Aselsan EOTS and Aselsan radar(tbh they are the only choices for those subsystems) for its UCAV, but not Aselsan datalink.

First of all, Azra datalink IS an Aselsan Product.

Azerbaycan Radyolink Haberleşme Sistemi (AZRA-2) kabul faaliyetleri tamamlandı

ASELSAN, AZRA-2 Taktik Saha Muhabere Sistemlerinin faaliyetlerinin tamamlandığını 2020 Faaliyet Raporu'nda duyurdu.

www.defenceturk.net

Aselsan national Datalink (T-link) is a new system, unveiled 5-6 months ago. Azra is much more matured and currently in use in Azerbaycan. When T-Link becomes ready, KE will use it as well like our aircrafts KAAN and ANKA 3, as you see in demonstration picture from SSB in source:

Türkiye’nin stratejik gücü: T-Link ile yeni bir dönem başlayacak

Son yılların en kritik başlıklarından olan askeri sistemlerin milli imkanlarla haberleşmesinde Türkiye sahayı doğrudan etkileyecek bir imkana kavuşuyor. ASELSAN imzalı T-Link ile hava, kara, deniz, uzay ve siber uzay unsurları anlık haberleşecek. Ve en önemlisi de tüm bu iletişim ağı NATO ve...

www.trthaber.com

 

[TheInsider]

Baykar's rules and Baykar's priorities ok lets try this way.... what is Azra data link? what is T link and what is a directional data link? and what they do ?

This is not the first time Baykar has done this. TB2 and Akıncı don't use Aselsan products as datalinks.

 

[TheInsider]

First of all, Azra datalink IS an Aselsan Product.

Azerbaycan Radyolink Haberleşme Sistemi (AZRA-2) kabul faaliyetleri tamamlandı

ASELSAN, AZRA-2 Taktik Saha Muhabere Sistemlerinin faaliyetlerinin tamamlandığını 2020 Faaliyet Raporu'nda duyurdu.

www.defenceturk.net

Aselsan national Datalink (T-link) is a new system, unveiled 5-6 months ago. Azra is much more matured and currently in use in Azerbaycan. When T-Link becomes ready, KE will use it as well like our aircrafts KAAN and ANKA 3, as you see in demonstration picture from SSB in source:

Türkiye’nin stratejik gücü: T-Link ile yeni bir dönem başlayacak

Son yılların en kritik başlıklarından olan askeri sistemlerin milli imkanlarla haberleşmesinde Türkiye sahayı doğrudan etkileyecek bir imkana kavuşuyor. ASELSAN imzalı T-Link ile hava, kara, deniz, uzay ve siber uzay unsurları anlık haberleşecek. Ve en önemlisi de tüm bu iletişim ağı NATO ve...

www.trthaber.com

This is news to me i never new Azra was an Aselsan datalink.

 

[Zafer]

American EMALS can launch up to 45 tons. EMALS can soften the impact on the projectile. However the US is considering abandoning EMALS for their next carrier I hear because of its persisting problems.

 

[Ahlatshah]

This is news to me i never new Azra was an Aselsan datalink.

It is an Aselsan Product. AZerbaycan RAdiolink

 

[Quasar]

This is not the first time Baykar has done this. TB2 and Akıncı don't use Aselsan products as datalinks.

you mean low observable turbofan powered unmmened fighter drone which will possibly operate with KAAN and ANKA 3 ??? yes this is the first time!

 

[TheInsider]

American EMALS can launch up to 45 tons. EMALS can soften the impact on the projectile. However the US is considering abondoning EMALS for their next carrier I hear because of its persisting problems.

Chinese EMALS and American EMALS are different applications of the same principle. The Chinese use EMALS with huge success. Reported launch tempo and reliability is top level that is why they developed a land version for small UCAVs. Most of the time such UCAVs comes with rocket assisted launch capability. For example Kratos XQ-58 Valkyrie

 

[TheInsider]

This is not the first time Baykar has done this. TB2 and Akıncı don't use Aselsan products as datalinks.

Aviyonikler/Alt Sistemler

Yüksek güçlü mikro işlemci kullanarak; uygun durum tahmini yapan tümleştirilmiş sensörler ve ileri konum bulma algorit

baykartech.com

 

[Quasar]

if we want to focus on low observability further our data link should evolve accordingly as well i.e as a part of low observablty concept we may need to use low probability of intercept LPI/LPD ( low probability of intercept/low probability of detection) datalinks eventually.

-AND FOR THE FINAL TIME!!! commonality of directional data link amoung KAAN KIZILELMA ANKA 3 is clearly and undeniably vital!!!

 

[TheInsider]

if we want to focus on low observability further our data link should evolve accordingly as well i.e as a part of low observablty concept we may need to use low probability of intercept LPI/LPD ( low probability of intercept/low probability of detection) datalinks eventually.

Development of IVDL is at a similar level to MURAD AESA and Toygun. It is not in serial production, but it is being tested actively.

 

[Quasar]

Development of IVDL is at a similar level to MURAD AESA and Toygun. It is not in serial production, but it is being tested actively.

if we want to focus on low observability further our data link should evolve accordingly as well i.e as a part of low observablty concept we may need to use low probability of intercept LPI/LPD ( low probability of intercept/low probability of detection) datalinks eventually.

 

[dBSPL]

World’s First: Autonomous Close-Formation Flight by Two Unmanned Fighter Aircraft

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2005190544784556376

In 2024, or early 2025, Selçuk Bayraktar shared some screens from the operator console interface while sharing the concept of Kızılelma fleet autonomy at a conference. Although yesterday's social media post generated a lot of buzz, this and much more had already been presented to the public much earlier in a simulation environment. Unfortunately, even though I personally uploaded the images to the forum, I cannot find them at the moment.

 

[TheInsider]

Baykar wants to have in-house datalinks because
1) They design their own avionics accordingly.
2) They have their own plans/performance goals for their assets that require datalinks tailored to match those goals. If you want to develop an unmanned fighter that can operate autonomously and create an autonomous wing from unmanned fighters, you want a datalink precisely optimized for that need. Aselsan's IVDL is in development in the scope of MMU project for the needs of KAAN. Aselsan will probably modify IVDL in line with Baykar's performance goals of unmanned fighter and wing autonomy if Aselsans IVDL is to be used on KE. Baykar used outsourced datalinks for TB2 and Akıncı in the past, but switched to in-house datalinks after sometime and has the best experience with in house datalinks.

 

[Zafer]

Who knows maybe in the future an EMALS like launcher can be used to launch regional electric planes from short strips and recover with a cable like they are on a carrier ship. A carry over application from military to the civil sector.

MUGEM should have EMALS from the beginning and be upgraded for higher powers later if insufficient.

 

[Lool]

In 2024, or early 2025, Selçuk Bayraktar shared some screens from the operator console interface while sharing the concept of Kızılelma fleet autonomy at a conference. Although yesterday's social media post generated a lot of buzz, this and much more had already been presented to the public much earlier in a simulation environment. Unfortunately, even though I personally uploaded the images to the forum, I cannot find them at the moment.

For me, performing something for the first time ever in reality and performing it through a powerpoint or AI generated software are way too different things.
The reason it created lots of buzz is because many people thought that Baykar wont be able to do it for now or, at the very least, some other Western or Chinese company will outpace Baykar and perform it first

Baykar being the first to reach such a milestone indicates that they are pioneering their own path, with their own vision, and the world will have to follow in Baykar's footsteps and not vice versa. Would anyone, in their wildest dreams, have imagined that a private company in Turkey, not even 50 years old, would outpace companies like Boeing and Airbus which are probably 80 years old if not more? None!

Just look at how many countries are making TB2 knockoffs; from China to the UAE to Greece. Soon, countries will start to make Kizilelma's knockoffs; indicating Baykar's influnce over the world

 

[Kitra]

LOL, EMALS on carriers requires 60 Mw of power to function, they gonna be carrying a mini nuclear reactor to power that?

Also whats even the point since those UCAVs need airfield to land anyway.

the launch support would only last for about 2 seconds, so the required energy is about 30 kWh with your number. This seems doable when your typical EV have about 100 kWh and can deliver 1MW (e.g. some BYD models). For extra umph, you can add some capacitor banks and parallel connect 10 EV batteries, and still be within 1-2 m3 volume.

I also think your power requirement at 60MW is for +30-ton fully armed fighters, while a usable drone can be 1 to 10 tons. So, power will most likely be a lot less. For reference, a 10 x standard EV batteries can deliver +10 MW continuously and a lot more in bursts. So, even 60MW bursts are not outside the reasonable domain for a custom-designed blade battery pack (the same style that you use to jump-start your car).

The obvious use case for this would be additional payload for a normal drone delivered close to the target. The drone can always land in an airfield far away. However, I'm still not sure about the concept as it looks very funky but not undoable from physics point-of-view. For example, you would need additional hardware to get the drone up that ramp.

Something that launches a large drone from one launcher, would be more interesting. There probably even exist, but I have only seen smaller drones launched this way.

As a side note, I think development is ongoing to use similar technologies to launch rockets/missiles instead of cold lunch with compressed gas.

 

[TheInsider]

IMHO Chinese ground based EMALS will be used to launch drones similar to Kratos MQ-58 Valkyrie. A small crane can lift the UCAV and put it on EMALS without a problem. I would be very surprised if Chinese launch anything heavier than 4000kg.

 

[Zafer]

Kaan is ~ 27.000 kg
Hürjet is ~ 12.000 kg
Kızılelma is ~ 8.500 kg
Anka3 is ~ 7.000 kg (?)

Anything less than Kaan is a relatively easy object to EMALS launch.

 

[Quasar]

Baykar wants to have in-house datalinks because
1) They design their own avionics accordingly.
2) They have their own plans/performance goals for their assets that require datalinks tailored to match those goals. If you want to develop an unmanned fighter that can operate autonomously and create an autonomous wing from unmanned fighters, you want a datalink precisely optimized for that need. Aselsan's IVDL is in development in the scope of MMU project for the needs of KAAN. Aselsan will probably modify IVDL in line with Baykar's performance goals of unmanned fighter and wing autonomy if Aselsans IVDL is to be used on KE. Baykar used outsourced datalinks for TB2 and Akıncı in the past, but switched to in-house datalinks after sometime and has the best experience with in house datalinks.

The performance of a datalink does not depend on being designed exclusively for a single platform. On the contrary, They are for an entire network-centric warfare ecosystem, which should allow adaptation to multiple platforms… this is their essence

Autonomy of KIzılema depends more on mission computers and AI than on the datalink itself as we all clearly know
I.e Mission computers, Sensor fusion Decision-making algorithms and library

In your argument where you try to imply “a dedicated datalink is mandatory for autonomous wings” is quite weak the real differentiation is in highe level software and autonomy architecture….

A sperate data link only results in additional crypto and interface layers and Increased operational complexity for instance F 22 and F 35

ASELSAN’s architecture is not a fixed solution or KAAN-only solution and open to Platform-specific optimization again a very clear and simple example F 35 and B 21 will use the same directional data link