Live Conflict Ukraine-Russia War

contricusc

Committed member
Messages
299
Reactions
1 423
Nation of residence
Panama
Nation of origin
Romania
For the U.S to delegitimize ISIS claim as a country, it MUST deny ISIS governing people in the first place, and what better place to do governance than in cities ? Taking away the city under ISIS control equals taking away their legitimacy in governance and as we know to wrest control of cities under ISIS control requires the U.S to destroy entire cities, because they won't surrender.

So does for Putin, to delegitimize Zelensky and Ukraine as a country their objective is to deny a Ukrainian governance itself, which explains why they go for Kyiv, Kharkiv and Mariupol (all major Ukraine center of government) in the first place. And in the process to achieve that goal, just like the U.S they destroy entire cities because its the enemy wont yield.

When you equate ISIS controlled territory with a legitimate democratically elected government, you are engaging in extreme mental gymnastics to try to defend your point.

What’s next? Legitimizing drug cartels when they control a town by force as “legitimate governors” and calling the police force trying to restore order as “invading army”?

I guess you can’t distinguish between a group of thugs killing people to loot their belongings and a special forces operation that kills some terrorists to free some hostages. For you, it’s just “armed people killing others because they have more firepower”.
 

Mailman

Active member
Messages
99
Reactions
183
Nation of residence
Estonia
Nation of origin
Estonia
in brief ''universialy accepted etrhical rules governing international relations'' is a fairy tale. İnternational relations is based on national interest even though it is an extremly vague and complex concept
I would say there is lack of international enforcement mechanism capable of detecting, investigating and bringing the war criminals into justice. By default, Mr. Putin is untouchable and so are many of hes soldiers, because they are under state protection. Basically one needs to start a nuclear war in order to take Putin into Hague Criminal Court. This means so many other unnecessary deaths than just Ukrainian ones right now, possibly ending the life on Earth (including 300 million ignorant inhabitants of Indonesia).

From this point of angle, there is a need for world wide police service, partially carried out bu US until president Trump arrived. That is another good question why US bothers to keep up such a military power system. My guess would be- need to controle nuclear weapons distribution, being single country in the world who has used this against another country. Perhaps I am naive here too, but I do not see other good explanation for such an expencive adventure.

And by all means, US military power is something which should not be underestimated. For someone, Afghanistan means shamefull defeat of US. I would say, occupying and controling a state in another half of hemisphere for 20 years, that is a visible demonstration of this power. Yes, they left in hurry, but the war itself was another improvised cowboy style elbow shot from Bush administration. Blowing up Twin-Towers in New York was a stupid show off by Al-Qaeda, needed to be answered because of internal politics of US. Basically anything was good target, which could be tied to Al-Qaeda and this poor country offered them a place of residence. 20 years of occupation another country is quite enough to deliver this message: do not host the US enemies or if you do, controle them well enough.
 
Last edited:

Afif

Experienced member
Moderator
Bangladesh Correspondent
DefenceHub Diplomat
Bangladesh Moderator
Messages
3,802
Reactions
64 6,735
Nation of residence
Bangladesh
Nation of origin
Bangladesh
From this point of angle, there is a need for world wide police service, partially carried out bu US until president Trump arrived. That is another good question why US bothers to keep up such a military power system. My guess would be- need to controle nuclear weapons distribution, being single country in the world who has used this against another country. Perhaps I am naive here too, but I do not see other good explanation for such an expencive adventure.
The world wide police service is the wrong description.
US military exist to serve its national interests ( which could be many things ) but definitely not to provide free 'police services' ( which no body asked for BTW )
 

MaciekRS

Well-known member
Moderator
Poland Moderator
Messages
338
Reactions
3 947
Nation of residence
Poland
Nation of origin
Poland
The world wide police service is the wrong description.
US military exist to serve its national interests ( which could be many things ) but definitely not to provide free 'police services' ( which no body asked for BTW )
Well, that is not true.
Whole Europe is counting on US to save them from any trouble and to save money by not spending it on military but spend it on some stupid social stuff.
Taiwan, S Korea and Japan are also counting that US will provide help in case of China trouble.
 

contricusc

Committed member
Messages
299
Reactions
1 423
Nation of residence
Panama
Nation of origin
Romania
The world wide police service is the wrong description.
US military exist to serve its national interests ( which could be many things ) but definitely not to provide free 'police services' ( which no body asked for BTW )
We in Eastern Europe love this free police service that allowed us to develop without fear of being invaded by Russia and while spending only a tiny amount in defence compared to the huge military assistance we receive from the US. Thank you USA for defending us for free.
 

Mailman

Active member
Messages
99
Reactions
183
Nation of residence
Estonia
Nation of origin
Estonia
The world wide police service is the wrong description.
US military exist to serve its national interests ( which could be many things ) but definitely not to provide free 'police services' ( which no body asked for BTW )
I can assure, this is not limited only to US national interests, though it is inclined toward it. Nobody is taking it for free, 9 our soldiers lost their lives in Afghanistan operation (16 before that, during Soviet occupation), 2 soldiers were killed in Iraq.
The last remark is funny. Did anybody asked Mohammad Abdul Hamid to become the president of Bangladesh, before Zillur Rahman died? Political power is always taken, never given for free, just for the record.
 
Last edited:

contricusc

Committed member
Messages
299
Reactions
1 423
Nation of residence
Panama
Nation of origin
Romania
Here’s an intersting analysis of Russia’s fossil fuel exports since January 2022 and how the war and the subsequent sanctions and price caps have influenced its export revenues:


It looks like the price cap on crude oil and now the new EU ban on refined products are having the desired effect. Russia is earning a lot less from fossil fuel exports than what it did one year ago.
 

Kathirz

Contributor
Moderator
Spain Moderator
Messages
476
Reactions
2 1,135
Nation of residence
Spain
Nation of origin
Spain
Here’s an intersting analysis of Russia’s fossil fuel exports since January 2022 and how the war and the subsequent sanctions and price caps have influenced its export revenues:


It looks like the price cap on crude oil and now the new EU ban on refined products are having the desired effect. Russia is earning a lot less from fossil fuel exports than what it did one year ago.

They are just fakeing the data for internal consumption.

For starters, the IMF’s forecast of economic growth in Russia exceeds even that of the Russian central bank, which expects GDP to fall by at least 1.5% this year. Even Russian oligarchs such as aluminum tycoon Oleg Deripaska are openly fretting about how Putin will run out of cash next year–and how he’s been cannibalizing Russian companies to make ends meet! Yet the truth is, as they candidly admitted to us, the IMF Russia Desk economists have “basically zero visibility” into what is actually going on in the Russian economy.

 

Gary

Experienced member
Messages
7,367
Reactions
21 11,979
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
When you equate ISIS controlled territory with a legitimate democratically elected government, you are engaging in extreme mental gymnastics to try to defend your point.

In war you didn't classify your enemy oh this is ISIS, oh that one is Marxist oh this one is this and that...in war its all going to be friendlies and targets and only those 2. I'm saying this knowing full well what ISIS and reputation is, but looking from even higher perspective this is just war.

The same stigma on ISIS is likely the same stigma that Ukraine has in the eyes of the Russian populace and soldiers, so in the end they justify the means to end such as bombing them, levelling their cities etc.

legitimate democratically elected government,
I said that before and I say it again, the word "democratic" has no worth whatsoever in war. I could replace your sentence into:
  1. When you equate ISIS controlled territory with a legitimate democratically elected government, you are engaging in extreme mental gymnastics
  2. When you equate ISIS controlled territory with a legitimate Anarchist government, you are engaging in extreme mental gymnastics
  3. When you equate ISIS controlled territory with a legitimate Marxist government, you are engaging in extreme mental gymnastics
  4. When you equate ISIS controlled territory with a legitimate Islamic government, you are engaging in extreme mental gymnastics
  5. When you equate ISIS controlled territory with a legitimate Liberal government, you are engaging in extreme mental gymnastics
See how ridiculous it sounds ? Politics is agnostic when it comes to belief and ideologies sorry.
What’s next? Legitimizing drug cartels when they control a town by force as “legitimate governors” and calling the police force trying to restore order as “invading army”?
YES...all powers starts that way. Do you know that British empire started as a quasi drug cartels ?

List all major powers in history and you'll know that these people are "gentlemen" later in life, criminal enterprise prior. In the end history does repeats itself.
I guess you can’t distinguish between a group of thugs killing people to loot their belongings and a special forces operation that kills some terrorists to free some hostages. For you, it’s just “armed people killing others because they have more firepower”.

The war in the Syria-Iraq theater is war on a conventional sense, you have:
  1. 2 opposing conventional armies
  2. clear frontlines
  3. clear targets
  4. Physical objective to seize and hold.
This is certainly not counter terrorist operation in the traditional sense.

But looking how you just equate the Iraq-Syria theater (2014-2017) into basic CTO operation. one has to wonder if he's any different than the Russians that still believe that Russian efforts in Ukraine is just "Special Military Operation" and not war in the first place.
 

Gary

Experienced member
Messages
7,367
Reactions
21 11,979
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
The range of the kinzhal already takes account for all the evasive maneuvers same as the other missiles they have already fielded. This missile maneuvers constantly at 20-30Gs because of a controlled surface and TVC capabilities, energy is not lost if fuel keeps burning. The Kinzhal is already fielded what the U.S. screws up on is not my problem.
The Kinzhal is based on the Iskander TBM, here's a few details of what we know. The Iskander is

  • Solid fueled, that means that once ignited there's no way to control the amount of thrust until its fuel is all burned out.
  • Thrust is estimated at 200kN
  • .
  • .......
  • thrust.PNG
  • Burn time is at 20 second, speed 2.1km/s= Mach 6.1 at 12-15km (50.000 ft)
....
  • thrust2.PNG
  • .
  • We also know that in that altitude, surface control no longer work, especially that Iskander fins are too small to force evasive maneuver, using TVC control doesn't help much, especially once thrust is all lost after all fuel is used. Iskander and its Kinzhal buddy will lose all thrust after 25 seconds = 52km passed. Add the "evasive maneuver" and the more energy is lost which equates even shorter range fro the Kinzhal
  • thrust 3.PNG
  • .
  • .
  • .
  • Another Russian propaganda weapons maybe ?




I mean this isnt the only time the U.S. is behind certian fields like fielding scramjets and HGVs in which I already gave a few examples ranging from the HTV-2 project or why some of their interceptors dont have 55-60 G loads.
YEs, but the closest the soviets has ever been to the U.S is in the 60s where Soviet overall economy is 40% of the U.S...modern Russia isn't even 2% the U.S economy.
 

contricusc

Committed member
Messages
299
Reactions
1 423
Nation of residence
Panama
Nation of origin
Romania
List all major powers in history and you'll know that these people are "gentlemen" later in life, criminal enterprise prior. In the end history does repeats itself.

The current superpower started as a colony that fought for its independence against a colonial power. Not very different from your own country.

Anyway, we’re going nowhere with this discussion, as you obviously refuse to consider there are differences between factions based on who they are and what they do. For you, there is no difference between a genocidal regime and a peaceful democratic country, or between a terrorist organization and a sovereign government.

For you, all factions are the same. By this logic yes, Russia is no different from any other country, terror group or warlord that ever fought a war.

For me, thee is a difference between ISIS and a democratic country where people have rights, freedoms and live in peace.
 

Ryder

Experienced member
Messages
10,254
Reactions
5 17,725
Nation of residence
Australia
Nation of origin
Turkey
The current superpower started as a colony that fought for its independence against a colonial power. Not very different from your own country.

Anyway, we’re going nowhere with this discussion, as you obviously refuse to consider there are differences between factions based on who they are and what they do. For you, there is no difference between a genocidal regime and a peaceful democratic country, or between a terrorist organization and a sovereign government.

For you, all factions are the same. By this logic yes, Russia is no different from any other country, terror group or warlord that ever fought a war.

For me, thee is a difference between ISIS and a democratic country where people have rights, freedoms and live in peace.

Fought for its independance and after that began its manifest destiny of clearing out the Native Americans.

All those name tags mean shit lol

Humans will engage in war to get what they want regardless if its the Usa, Russia or China.

Same goes for isis, cartels and the pkk.

Democracy and freedom its all just a smokescreen.
 

Ryder

Experienced member
Messages
10,254
Reactions
5 17,725
Nation of residence
Australia
Nation of origin
Turkey
Not to mention how the Russians use Iraq and Afghanistan as an example on why they can invade Ukraine.

If the Usa can invade for its own interests by all rights we have the right to invade.

Humans are all full of shit. We are naive pawns in the chessboard.

Sad about how weak countries can easily fall prey to the big ones. All you need is convicing lies to convince everybody to go to war.

Russia will never motivate its people for war if it said we want warm water ports but instead use the arguments of how they need to protect the Russian minorities and how the Nazis are in Ukraine.
 

Angry Turk !!!

Well-known member
Messages
409
Reactions
3 957
Nation of residence
Germany
Nation of origin
Turkey
Not to mention how the Russians use Iraq and Afghanistan as an example on why they can invade Ukraine.

If the Usa can invade for its own interests by all rights we have the right to invade.

Humans are all full of shit. We are naive pawns in the chessboard.

Sad about how weak countries can easily fall prey to the big ones. All you need is convicing lies to convince everybody to go to war.

Russia will never motivate its people for war if it said we want warm water ports but instead use the arguments of how they need to protect the Russian minorities and how the Nazis are in Ukraine.
Hence why a solid nation has to make sure it is strong so it can invade others if necessary instead of getting invaded.
 

UkroTurk

Experienced member
Land Warfare Specialist
Professional
Messages
2,130
Reactions
26 3,791
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
A possible US presidential candidate called the war in Ukraine a "territorial dispute"

1678779251635.png


DeSantis may be nominated as a presidential candidate instead of Trump

In his statement, DeSantis also criticized other Republicans committed to helping Ukraine.


The favorite of the Republican Party, a possible US presidential candidate in the 2024 elections, Ron DeSantis, rolled out a whole portion of anti-Ukrainian statements.

In an interview with ardent Ukrainophobe, Fox News host Tucker Carlson, who has repeatedly insulted Zelensky and Ukrainians, DeSantis called the war in Ukraine a "territorial dispute."

In his opinion, military assistance in securing the borders of European countries is not in the interests of the United States, the New York Times quotes the words of a top Republican.


US military assistance in the war of Ukraine against Russia - the mood of the Americans

According to October opinion polls, 70% of Americans (both Republicans and Democrats) were still in favor of supporting Ukraine. The White House in its statements constantly emphasizes that the United States will support the resistance of the Ukrainians "for as long as it takes."

Republicans sympathizing with Trump began to put spokes in the wheels. Under the guise of demands for control over the sent weapons, the Trumpists are slowing down the allocation of new aid packages to Ukraine.

Moreover, Trump himself made sharp attacks against the financing of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, and in his last speech he even stated that he would give Putin the opportunity to seize "parts of Ukraine."
 

Mailman

Active member
Messages
99
Reactions
183
Nation of residence
Estonia
Nation of origin
Estonia
Fought for its independance and after that began its manifest destiny of clearing out the Native Americans.

All those name tags mean shit lol

Humans will engage in war to get what they want regardless if its the Usa, Russia or China.

Same goes for isis, cartels and the pkk.

Democracy and freedom its all just a smokescreen.
Please define what you mean by democracy and freedom. Positions like this really make me wonder weather a person has experienced a freedom and/or citizens rights to decide over politics of the country of residence.

Personally, being former citizen of USSR and now Estonian Republic, I find it hard to take the freedom as a smokescreen. This is very much related to my sense of integrity, to my ability expressing my thoughts without fear of suppression and to the right of making the best choices regarding my location and enterpreneural activities. I can either exploit this freedom or not, simple as that.

The same goes about democracy. One has to become citizen of the country of the residence, that's for sure, to experience the right of choosing political leaders- or becoming one of those yourself. Simple case again, you either have a vote to decide about how things are done around you or not. Given the small weight of anyones vote, it might be trikcy to see how your vote is actually influencing the outcome, but it should be always possible to take initiative and create a new political formation in order to gain political power and make things right (lets use acronym MAGA for example- Make America Great Again). Mr. Erdogan or Mr. Putin might find this idea proposterous and expell you from the country for that, but in real democracies it is the way how it is done. How it is possible to fake that?

Yes, there are ways of playing with such things, for sure. It will be an lenghty discussion here regarding different state orders, but this is not the place for that. In very short, I believe in reasons Ukrainians are fighting and willing to die in current war: freedom and democracy. Is Ryder willing to die, proving othervize?
 

Ryder

Experienced member
Messages
10,254
Reactions
5 17,725
Nation of residence
Australia
Nation of origin
Turkey
Please define what you mean by democracy and freedom. Positions like this really make me wonder weather a person has experienced a freedom and/or citizens rights to decide over politics of the country of residence.

Personally, being former citizen of USSR and now Estonian Republic, I find it hard to take the freedom as a smokescreen. This is very much related to my sense of integrity, to my ability expressing my thoughts without fear of suppression and to the right of making the best choices regarding my location and enterpreneural activities. I can either exploit this freedom or not, simple as that.

The same goes about democracy. One has to become citizen of the country of the residence, that's for sure, to experience the right of choosing political leaders- or becoming one of those yourself. Simple case again, you either have a vote to decide about how things are done around you or not. Given the small weight of anyones vote, it might be trikcy to see how your vote is actually influencing the outcome, but it should be always possible to take initiative and create a new political formation in order to gain political power and make things right (lets use acronym MAGA for example- Make America Great Again). Mr. Erdogan or Mr. Putin might find this idea proposterous and expell you from the country for that, but in real democracies it is the way how it is done. How it is possible to fake that?

Yes, there are ways of playing with such things, for sure. It will be an lenghty discussion here regarding different state orders, but this is not the place for that. In very short, I believe in reasons Ukrainians are fighting and willing to die in current war: freedom and democracy. Is Ryder willing to die, proving othervize?

Im not attacking Ukraine but Usa and Russia will always try to paint their wars and invasions with a nice cloak about how its about saving somebody from themselves.

Usa bragged about how they were liberating Iraq while Russia brags about saving the Russian minority from Nazis. Same story Russia used by the way in Georgia in 2008 about how they were saving Ossetians.

You cant motivate people to fight for oil or for land because people will be asking why should I sacrifice myself?

Superpowers or great powers of today will never confront each other head on but they will invade weakers nations.

Ukraine is just caught by geography also shitty treaties that screwed it up in the long run after independance.

If only they had nukes. Neutrality was a mistake. Ukraine doesnt have to keep like 1000 nukes.

Even 10 to 50 would be enough to deter the Russian bear from attacking.
 

Follow us on social media

Top Bottom