Live Conflict Ukraine-Russia War

UkroTurk

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"When others weaken"
Scholz assures Ukraine of further aid


Chancellor Olaf Scholz has called for perseverance in German support for Ukraine. “This war is probably not over any time soon,” said Scholz at the SPD federal party conference in Berlin. It is therefore important “that we are able to do what is necessary for a long time”, namely “continue to support Ukraine in its defense struggle”.


Germany must even be prepared to have to do even more "when others weaken," said the Chancellor, apparently alluding to the unclear political situation in the USA before next year's presidential elections. Therefore, there must be decisions on the German side “so that we are able to do this.”

Scholz also referred to the economic consequences of Russian imperialism - for Germany, and even more so for some other countries. “We know that there have been consequences that also affect us,” said the Chancellor, referring to the high energy prices. He emphasized that the government had nevertheless managed to ensure a good energy supply, even if this was of course "a major financial challenge".
 

Relic

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Donald Trump has made it clear that he only sees NATO as a black hole through which Europeans extract American resources. And Trump has held this opinion for more than two decades.
I'm some ways, Trump isn't wrong. The United States does, objectively, pay a significant percentage of NATO's overall defense spending, while European countries that are at far greater threat of direct war with Russia, are able to ignore their respective armed forces and instead spend their money to bolster social programs. That thinking has enabled those countries to greatly enhance the quality of life for their citizens, on the back of American defense spending. We are guilty of the same thing here in Canada. 2% of GDP agreed to by NATO members, wasn't and isn't a big ask. It's just been ignored for far too long as a consequence of populist governments wanting political wins. Maintaining one's military is neccessary, but it isn't sexy and it doesn't usually drive votes.

What it all comes down to is political will power. When Covid-19 hit, NATO countries spent Trillions of dollars over 2 years to combat the virus, as they saw it as an existential threat. My country (Canada) alone spent $500 Billion dollars in Covid-19 related spending over 2 years, equivalent to 20 years worth of our military spending. The same was true in many European countries that are looking to USA to fund and supply Ukraine's war as it rages on and their supplies of war resources that they are willing to part with drys up.

Donald Trump is moron in a lot of areas, but if you take an objective look at what he's saying and focus on the NUMBERS, rather than your personal feelings about NATO defense spending, he's 100% correct. USA has been funding, equiping and servicing NATO for far too long. It's Europe that faces direct threat of Russian expansionist desires. They should start putting their money where their mouth is. As should we as Canadians. Germany seems to get it. They've announced aggressive new defense spending. Others ought to follow suit. Nobody is talking about operating in a state of war time economy. But had NATO member nations been disciplined in soending the 2% of GDP they agreed to over the years, their ability to come to Ukraine's aid and provide supplies at the pace Ukraine needs them, wouldn't be in question. Stockpiles would be vast and production lines would be robust enough to replace items quickly and with relatively good efficiency.
 

Ravager

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This confirms earlier report (by pro-Russian account) that Ukraine's guns at the front is noticably silent.


Did someguy just mention a pew post ago about $ billions of aids were allready allocated and shipped for the defence of ukraine's ?? Along with hightech munitions and the " game changer " F-16 too ...
How come they aren't available as yet ??


So , it seems some kids are still guilible and naive as ever i presumme .
 

Slayer

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This is like saying, unlike yours, my car is functional. But I won't start my car, because unlike yours my car will blow up once I ignite the starter.

You are either a democracy like Russia or one-man authoritarian state like Ukraine.
Democracy like Russia - you are kidding right!
Russia is a one-man authoritarian regime where dissidents jump out of windows after being strangled.
 

Gary

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Democracy like Russia - you are kidding right!
Russia is a one-man authoritarian regime where dissidents jump out of windows after being strangled.
But they still have elections where there's still room for change in power, which makes them a democracy nonetheless. An imperfect democracy describes them just fine
 

Marlii

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But they still have elections where there's still room for change in power, which makes them a democracy nonetheless. An imperfect democracy describes them just fine
Then North korea is a imperfect democracy too
 

Gary

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Then North korea is a imperfect democracy too
North Korea IS technically a democracy. "North Korea', 'NorKo', 'Hermit Kingdom', 'KJU fiefdom' is a slur that comes from the West to delegitimize them. If you dig deeper you'll find out that their real name is the Democratic People's Republic of Korea. Democracy as if in Europe? Maybe not, but they have representatives in the Supreme People's Assembly.
 

Gary

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Stalemate at the front meant both side has more time to arrest journalist.

Russia arrested Evan Gerkovisch

Ukraine just now arrested Gonzalo Lira

I already declared that Gonzalo Lira is a journalist 7 months in advance before Elon suddenly realized that journalists are indeed arrested in Ukraine.


But again what do I expect from the West who could not recognize that Russia is a democracy and Ukraine is now turning into a one-man authoritarian state.
 

contricusc

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North Korea IS technically a democracy. "North Korea', 'NorKo', 'Hermit Kingdom', 'KJU fiefdom' is a slur that comes from the West to delegitimize them. If you dig deeper you'll find out that their real name is the Democratic People's Republic of Korea. Democracy as if in Europe? Maybe not, but they have representatives in the Supreme People's Assembly.

Countries that put “Democratic” in their official name are usually very undemocratic. North Korea is the prime example for that.

Also, countries that put “People’s“ in their name, like “People’s Republic” are dictatorships where the people have very limited rights.

So when you have a country that is a “Democratic People’s Republic”, you should expect the worst kind of dictatorship.
 

Gary

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Countries that put “Democratic” in their official name are usually very undemocratic. North Korea is the prime example for that.

Also, countries that put “People’s“ in their name, like “People’s Republic” are dictatorships where the people have very limited rights.

So when you have a country that is a “Democratic People’s Republic”, you should expect the worst kind of dictatorship.

Again this did not dismiss any claim that these country are not legitimate democracies. Human rights is not a mandatory standard of a democracy. Because if it did, then many (if not all) country arround the world wouldn't fit the criteria.

You have for example israelis and their apartheid, Sweden with their child kidnapping and separation policy, LATAM and Asia with their many US backed dictators etc. All of these would no longer be/never be recognized democracy if humans rights are put into concern.

In fact using your logic alone Ukraine should no longer be called democracy after its questionable move lately with ex-Pres adviser Arestovych having to leave the country for fear of his life.
 
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contricusc

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Again this did not dismiss any claim that these country are not legitimate democracies. Human rights is not a mandatory standard of a democracy. Because if it did, then many (if not all) country arround the world wouldn't fit the criteria.

You have for example israelis and their apartheid, Sweden with their child kidnapping and separation policy, LATAM and Asia with their many US backed dictators etc. All of these would no longer be/never be recognized democracy if humans rights are put into concern.

In fact using your logic alone Ukraine should no longer be called democracy after its questionable move lately with ex-Pres adviser Arestovych having to leave the country for fear of his life.

All countries have limitations when it comes to human rights, and no democracy is perfect.

But as a general rule, a country can be called democratic when the people in power (head of state and ruling party) can be replaced by the general population through a simple vote, without the need of violent protests and rebellions. For this to happen, the elections must be fair, which means vote counting should be honest and the opposition should be allowed freedom of expression and promotion of its electoral agenda.

Russia is not a democracy because the formal opposition is controlled and the real opposition is persecuted. The so called “Democratic Peoples Republics” are not democratic because they have a dictatorial regimes that cannot be changed through fair elections.

Ukraine is a young democracy that has its flaws, but so far it has successfully completed a few electoral cycles where the opposition defetead the incumbents and the election results have been respected. We shall see if Ukraine will continue to be a functioning democracy considering they are waging a war, but Russia has never been one in the first place.
 

Gary

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All countries have limitations when it comes to human rights, and no democracy is perfect.

But as a general rule, a country can be called democratic when the people in power (head of state and ruling party) can be replaced by the general population through a simple vote, without the need of violent protests and rebellions. For this to happen, the elections must be fair, which means vote counting should be honest and the opposition should be allowed freedom of expression and promotion of its electoral agenda.

Again nope, not true

Many of the democracies are in fact authoritarian, for example, if democracies are following the tennets of democracy then Indonesia would either be:
  1. A Communist state
  2. An Islamic Republic

Long long time ago. The same goes with Egypt, or Argentina, Chile, Brazil etc.

Yet all of these are called democracies.

In the end Russia still has elections, Putin will still have to contest in next years elections and whatever people think the validity of it, they are legitimate democarcy, unlike Ukraine which has cracked under war pressure and likely moving towards a tightened Zelensky grip for the foreseeable future.


Russia is not a democracy because the formal opposition is controlled and the real opposition is persecuted. The so called “Democratic Peoples Republics” are not democratic because they have a dictatorial regimes that cannot be changed through fair elections.

So what ?

Before 2013 The Muslim brotherhood won the elction in Egypt, the Egyptian army launched a coup, destroy the opposition, kill its president and mass butcher the followers of Muslim Brotherhood or massively jailed them, never again to be seen in the politcal landscape of Egypt.

Before 1965 the Indonesian Communist Party was the largest political party in Indonesia and the largest communist party outside the S.Union and PRC, in fact it is already predicted that they will assume power once Sukarno is dead, yet suddenly a political chaos erupted in 1965 resulted in the complete ban of the communists andthe killing/arrests of its supporters never again to be seen in the politcal landscape of Indonesia.

Does any of these two countries suddenly NOT a democracy ?

In fact people continue to call Indonesia a democracy



So if these two countries basically can annihiliate a whole oppositions/political force/poltitical movements and its supporters, why can't Russia, where nothing similar had happened NOT be called a democracy ?????


Ukraine is a young democracy that has its flaws, but so far it has successfully completed a few electoral cycles where the opposition defetead the incumbents and the election results have been respected. We shall see if Ukraine will continue to be a functioning democracy considering they are waging a war, but Russia has never been one in the first place.

Ukraine used to be a democracy, but not anymore, they crack under pressure and are moving towards one man rule under soon to be emperor Zelensky. Russia ironically the poster child of authoritarianism are surpsiringly capable to uphold the basic tenets of democracy under enormous pressure.
 
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UkroTurk

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Putin’s Russia is closing in on a devastating victory. Europe’s foundations are trembling


As exhausted Ukrainians fall back from Russia’s ramparts and minefields, the initiative is swinging to the invaders. Russia is advancing through the skeletal remains of what used to be Marinka, a city in Donetsk, perhaps of greater psychological than strategic importance. Missiles are again hitting Kyiv. Ukraine’s first lady, Olena Zelenska, has taken to the BBC to warn that her country is in “mortal danger”.

Now, it is the Ukrainians’ turn to dig in, to try to hold what they have. As in 1914, a fortified line runs the length of the front, from the Dnieper delta to the Russian border. And, as then, military technology favours the defender, so that tiny gains are bought at terrible cost.


The First World War eventually ended in part because the Allies had greater manpower. Brutally, they were able, especially after America had fully mobilised by the beginning of 1918, to throw more men at the front lines than the Central Powers.

This time, the demographic advantage is with Russia, whose population is three-and-a-quarter times the size of Ukraine’s. Russia has switched a third of its pre-war civilian production to weapons and ammunition, and may now have the edge when it comes to drones – that modern equivalent of the barbed wire and machine guns that gave the defending side such a lethal advantage in the Flanders mud.

The long-term costs to the Russian people of this shift to a wartime economy are dreadful. Vladimir Putin has condemned his long-suffering muzhiks to years of penury and hunger. But, for now, it has done the trick. Russia has made it through to winter without a Ukrainian breakthrough.


We are all prone to hindsight bias, and there will no doubt be articles about how it was always going to be tough to unseat entrenched defenders. But this stalemate was far from predictable when the counteroffensive was launched in June.

I was one of those who expected Ukraine to break through to the Sea of Azov, a move that might well have ended the war. During 2022, Ukraine had demonstrated that Russia could not resupply Crimea across the Kerch Strait. Breaking the land bridge would have left the Russian garrison on the peninsula cut off. Ukraine could have turned off its electricity and food, and a negotiating space would have opened.

Why did I get it wrong? I had been talking not only to Ukrainians, but to British military observers with direct knowledge of the battlefield. They had watched the extraordinary Ukrainian gains in Kharkiv and Kherson in 2022 – gains that had emboldened the West to offer the kinds of matériel that they had previously held back from sending, lest it fall into enemy hands.

Ukraine now had long-range missiles, mine-clearing kit and modern tanks. At the same time, the Prigozhin mutiny had shown how soft Russia was behind the hard shell of its front lines.

But the invaders had learnt from their earlier mistakes. While Ukraine rushed to train its men in how to operate their new weapons last spring, Russia seeded mile after mile of landmines, built fortifications, dug trenches and amassed drones.

Putin needs only to hang on for another 12 months. Even if Donald Trump is not elected – the former president makes no secret of his admiration for the Russian tyrant, once going so far as to declare that he trusted Putin before the US security services – Republican congressmen have turned against the war. Last week, they blocked President Biden’s £88 billion aid package to Ukraine.
 
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Relic

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Sweden 🇸🇪 has announced a new, $150 million usd aid package for Ukraine. Contents of the package were not fully disclosed, but are designed to aid infrastructure onto the winter months, as Russia will undoubtedly start using larger quantities of missiles again, in an attempt to destroy Ukrainian heating infrastructure in the depths of winter.

 

contricusc

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Again nope, not true

Many of the democracies are in fact authoritarian, for example, if democracies are following the tennets of democracy then Indonesia would either be:
  1. A Communist state
  2. An Islamic Republic

Long long time ago. The same goes with Egypt, or Argentina, Chile, Brazil etc.

Yet all of these are called democracies.

Egypt is not a democracy. It is a military dictatorship. It had tried democracy once, and failed because of the military coup.

Argentina, Chile and Brazil are democracies, where the people in power change according to the popular vote.

I don’t know much about Indonesia’s democratic history, but from what I see it looks like a young democracy where the last few leaders where elected by popular vote and there is no party that holds absolute power (like in Russia).


Does any of these two countries suddenly NOT a democracy ?

Egypt is not a democracy. As for Indonesia, the crackdown on the communist party happened long time ago, and it was a necessary step in order to move towards democracy, just like it happened in most former communist states.

So if these two countries basically can annihiliate a whole oppositions/political force/poltitical movements and its supporters, why can't Russia, where nothing similar had happened NOT be called a democracy ?????

It’s not about what happened in the distant past, but about what happens in the present. Putin and his party don’t allow an opposition to be formed and don’t hold fair elections. They can’t lose the power through elections, so Russia is not a democracy.

Ukraine used to be a democracy, but not anymore, they crack under pressure and are moving towards one man rule under soon to be emperor Zelensky. Russia ironically the poster child of authoritarianism are surpsiringly capable to uphold the basic tenets of democracy under enormous pressure.

This “emperor Zelensky” thing is just Russian propaganda. Zelensky is not going to be president for life, and sooner or later there will be elections in Ukraine, and Zelensky will most likely lose and give up power.

On the other hand, Putin just holds rigged elections to create the illusion of democracy, despite the fact that everyone knows he can’t lose the elections.
 

Relic

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The International Monetary Fund is sending Ukraine a $900 million usd tranche of aid. Fungible aid is important because while this money is earmarked for macro financial aid, that will free up money for Ukraine to use to purchase significant quantities of weapons and equipment.

 

Quasar

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I guess we can all agree on the fact that democracy can not be reduced only to elections. More imfortantly there has to be effective checks and balances i.e seperation of power, rule of law..... effective representation and accountability. Further, cohesiveness and consistence are provided through institutional and State traditions
 
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Slayer

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But they still have elections where there's still room for change in power, which makes them a democracy nonetheless. An imperfect democracy describes them just fine
Imperfect democracy doesn't even cover it. There is no democracy in Russia. Just because you have an election doesn't make Russia democratic. Communist North Korea have elections too. Are they democratic?

The Soviet Union broke up in 1991, but no real democratic transition took place. Instead, the former rigid communist system remained in place, with only a few outward appearances shifting: the old Soviet wolf in new clothing. Like Putin.
 

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