Live Conflict Ukraine-Russia War

Ryder

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Its really worrying how Russia has improved everytime they fight a war early on it comes with numerous setbacks and casualties then over time they get their act together.
 

Spitfire9

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I’m not saying this is not necessary, I’m just pointing out the obvious double counting of the US aid. They count it once when they procure it for their military, and count it again when they donate it to Ukraine.

So if the US pays 1 billion to buy artillery shells to replenish their own stockpiles, and then donates those shells to Ukraine, they count the aid twice, as being 2 billion, but in reality they only donated shells worth 1 billion.

I’m not saying they don’t send aid, I’m saying they always overstate it to look twice what it really is. So when the US is counted as giving 40 billion in aid, it usually gives 20 billion only.

The maths is not the same for the European countries, which only count once the aid they give to Ukraine.

The double counting is a marketing trick to fool the world into believing that they are by far the biggest donor, when the reality is that the EU and its member countries have donated much more to Ukraine.

I think there is a bit of creative PR where military aid is concerned. Suppose country A is replacing a defence system that originally cost a billion dollars to buy. Instead of scrapping the old system, country A sends it to Ukraine. Country A will announce it is giving Ukraine a billion dollars in military aid.
 

Relic

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I think there is a bit of creative PR where military aid is concerned. Suppose country A is replacing a defence system that originally cost a billion dollars to buy. Instead of scrapping the old system, country A sends it to Ukraine. Country A will announce it is giving Ukraine a billion dollars in military aid.
Every first world military in has an inventory database and an associated currency value of the items that make up that inventory. What "creative PR" exists in sending a package with a valuation equivalent to either what you...

1. Paid for said item(s) at the time you purchased them?

2. Have to pay now for the item(s) in order to replace them?

The obvious reason that so much money goes towards restocking fees is that the price of military hardware and munitions have gone up drastically in the years and decades since many of these items were first purchased. Furthermore, because most of the companies are for profit enterprises, they're naturally charging a premium for their products at the moment, due to how in demand they are.

Nobody is pulling any tricks. Nobody is using creative PR. All the information can be found, publically, in the bills being passed.
 

Gary

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I hink the motives has something to do with Poles still reeling from the loss of historic homeland to Ukraine.
 

contricusc

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USA has donated BY FAR the most amount of macro financial and military aid to Ukraine. No country has come even close. Yes, it's true that when adjusted for GDP, other countries have donated more, but let's recognize a couple realities.

1. GDP adjusted aid is actually irrelevant to Ukraine winning the war.

Of course a country like the US will donate more than Estonia or Latvia and it is more important as an ally. But adjusting aid to GDP is what shows the actual effort of the helping country. In this case, the US is far from the top of the list.

Even more than that, considering the fact that the US has by far the biggest weapons stockpile, including many weapons about to expire and nearing retirement, it would have been natural for the US to be the biggest donor not only in gross values, but even in values relative to GDP.

The US has a lot more weapons as a percentage of GDP compared to Germany, yet Germany has sent much more weapons as a percentage of GDP than the US. Think about that for a moment.

If you compare the total firepower sent by the US as a percentage of what the US has, compared to any other European country, they are among the last on the list of donors.

And if we talk about quality, they are also lacking. The US didn’t send any of its top quality offensive weapons, while other countries have given some of the best things they have (think about the Cesar, Panzerhaubitze or Archer artillery, or the Storm Shadow / Scalp missiles).

Yes, the US has sent the most if we consider gross values, but as a proportion of what they have, they are hoovering at the bottom, while barking the loudest and complaining the most about the cost for their taxpayers.
 

contricusc

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Here is a comprehensive list of the military aid that USA has sent Ukraine at this point. Without that aid the war would likely already be lost. Nobody else has sent anywhere close to what's on this list, especially when you factor in both quality and quantity.

And to add to my previous reply, here is a comparison between US military aid and German military aid:

Military Commitments Jan. 24, 2022 to Jan. 15, 2024:

USA: 42.2 billion, compared to 849 billion defense budget. This means in two years they sent 5% of their yearly defense budget.

Germany: 17.7 billion, compared to 54 billion defense budget. This means in two years they sent 32% of their yearly defense budget.

So if we do a fair, like for like comparison, Germany sent six times more help than the US.

It is really irritating to see the US congress stuck since November in approving further aid, considering they are giving only 2.5% of their defense budget to Ukraine, compared to 15% in the case of Germany.
 

Soldier30

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Rare footage of the combat work of the Russian air defense system "Pantsir-S1" in the Belgorod region of Russia. The video shows the interception of Ukrainian RM-70 Vampire MLRS missiles. As can be seen in the video, the combat work is quite effective and outwardly resembles the work of the Israeli Iron Dome air defense system. Reportedly, 25 shells of the RM-70 Vampire multiple launch rocket system and three unmanned aerial vehicles of the Ukrainian army were intercepted.

 

MaciekRS

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I hink the motives has something to do with Poles still reeling from the loss of historic homeland to Ukraine.
Dont even try that russian propaganda :) There is no country in Europe more anti russia then Poland but of course when 97% hates russia there are always those 3% who prefer money.

Our PM Tust respond today
"There will be no leniency for collaborators of the Russian services. We will burn down with iron every betrayal and attempt at destabilization."
 

Gary

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Dont even try that russian propaganda :)
I never consider myself a propagandist, let alone a Russian propagandist. Lviv used to be called Lvov until Ukraine (Soviet Ukraine) took it away from Poland. That's fact.

Our PM Tust respond today
"There will be no leniency for collaborators of the Russian services. We will burn down with iron every betrayal and attempt at destabilization."

His response is what I would expect from a strong man against an increasingly uncontrolled popular will of the people, using strong words, threats etc.

His name doesn't even sound Polish, is he American ?
 

Gary

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Gary

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We are seeing more and more footage of Russian attack jets flying right on top of Chasob Yar, unopposed and seemingly unafraid.

The Ukrainians couldn't even afford Manpads to defend the city it seems as the Su-25 really fly that low. which suggests that Ukraine's front line air defense is really that dire or the defenders simply aren't able to go out from their bunkers.

Pretty bleak tbh.

 

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