Live Conflict Ukraine-Russia War

[Woland]

Germany pledged 1 billion € to Ukraine, thats not including the modest equipment pledges.

Also, the translation is taken out of context and wrong. He says no one gives as much as Germany, except for some countries such as the US. Nothing good has ever come out of something called Visegard.

And delivered none of it. Scholz has been saying all the right things, while doing as little as possible. The recent Marder announcement is an excellent example; after Ukraine asked for the Marders for months and Germany used every excuse in the book, Germany finally decided to give the Marders to Greece, while Greece will send lower-quality old BMPs to Ukraine. However, Greece has stated that they will only send their BMPs to Ukraine AFTER they have approved, received and refurbished the Marders.

And as for what happened before April 22, I wrote a whole thread about it: https://defencehub.live/threads/scholz’s-lies-and-manipulations-to-avoid-sending-weapons-to-ukraine.12973/

Also, he clearly states that nobody has given as much as Germany, and only afterwards corrects himself. I speak fluent German. And that's even without mentioning that the country financing Russia's war more than anyone else is Germany, and that Germany's foreign policy for many years has been civilizing Russia through trade and ignoring Ukraine. A strategy which German government officials at this point admit was an abject failure. And approving Nordstream 2 after Crimea and Donbas were invaded, resisting stronger sanctions, etc. The list goes on and on.

 

[Soldier30]

Ukrainian soldier: Russian artillery in Ukraine is hell. A soldier of the Ukrainian army appreciated the work of Russian artillery in Ukraine. According to him, this is hell, Russian artillery strikes everyone, Smerch MLRS, Hurricane MLRS, tanks, everything strikes, Russian artillery strikes for an hour, for two, and then the Russian army begins to attack, Ukrainian soldiers have to sit in the trenches and hide from the blows of the Russian Army

The Russian army hunts down and destroys Western weapons supplied to Ukraine. The M109A3GN self-propelled guns delivered by Norway to Ukraine with a caliber of 155 mm came under attack by Russian artillery in Ukraine. The M109 self-propelled guns were tracked by UAVs and the Russian MLRS Grad struck. On the video, you can see the guaranteed destruction of one installation, it is quite possible that others were damaged, since the body of the self-propelled guns is made of aluminum alloy. SAU M109A3GN is a Norwegian version of the American M109 SPG, which was supplied to many countries in various modifications.

 

[Jagdflieger]

And delivered none of it. Scholz has been saying all the right things, while doing as little as possible. The recent Marder announcement is an excellent example; after Ukraine asked for the Marders for months and Germany used every excuse in the book, Germany finally decided to give the Marders to Greece, while Greece will send lower-quality old BMPs to Ukraine. However, Greece has stated that they will only send their BMPs to Ukraine AFTER they have approved, received and refurbished the Marders.

And as for what happened before April 22, I wrote a whole thread about it: https://defencehub.live/threads/scholz’s-lies-and-manipulations-to-avoid-sending-weapons-to-ukraine.12973/

Also, he clearly states that nobody has given as much as Germany, and only afterwards corrects himself. I speak fluent German. And that's even without mentioning that the country financing Russia's war more than anyone else is Germany, and that Germany's foreign policy for many years has been civilizing Russia through trade and ignoring Ukraine. A strategy which German government officials at this point admit was an abject failure. And approving Nordstream 2 after Crimea and Donbas were invaded, resisting stronger sanctions, etc. The list goes on and on.

I don't quite agree with your assessment since you might not be aware of the NATO-Ring exchange program and agreements.
1. So far NATO has not agreed towards sending modern heavy weapons or aircraft. It is just individual States pushing for such deliveries - which is meaningless, but provides good propaganda.
2. NATO has only agreed towards sending modern artillery systems on 1st of June - which is now being done.
3. Germany via direct weapon deliveries has so far contributed around $400 million and on direct economic/humanitarian help around $350 million.
4. Germany has taken in around 600,000 Ukrainian refugees - and they are not living in tents. But are being integrated into the society - this alone costs around $500 million a month - since April.

5. NATO-Ring exchange:
Tanks, APC/AFV, AA and SAM systems from Czechia, Slovenia and Romania have been provided - and Germany is actually paying for them (replacements) for ca. $130million.
The UK and Germany made a deal with Poland to provide 230T-72 tanks to Ukraine - to be replaced by Challenger and Leo II tanks. (that deal alone will cost the UK and Germany around $1,5 Billion) Unfortunately all three parties haven't worked out the details. UK has send Challenger tanks, however manned and stationed in Poland with British crews - none have been handed over.
The Marder's are presently practically useless and it will take till around October-November for those to get ready. Therefore via NATO ring exchange Germany proposed to Greece to send those ex NVA BMP's to Ukraine (all had been refurbished by Germany).

One also needs to keep in mind that Ukraine is asking for modern heavy weapons - none of which are available in sufficient quantities within the European NATO- in regards to a single type.
Logistically, and in regards to maintenance and training it is idiotic to send e.g. 40 Challenger, 40 Leo II, 40 Leclerc and 40 Abrams to Ukraine.
I am not pointing fingers - but why doesn't the USA send e.g. 400 Abrams and 500 Bradley's? they have the quantity and can arrange for NATO to pay for them.

Both Germany and France (plus others-believe me) do not envisage a Ukrainian victory that includes driving the RF out of Ukraine - it will be a stalemate at best within the present front-line.
So enter negotiations now or in 6 or 12 month? with no change of respectively occupied territory but further destruction of the Ukraine infrastructure and tens of thousand more civilian casualties in the next 6-12 month?
Everyone in NATO is talking about Ukraine's "wishes" - which off course makes sense from a NATO point of view and Ukraine having been attacked.
But Putin also has his "wishes" - and the more he looses the less he will be willing to negotiate onto the terms.

My personal opinion: both, NATO and Ukraine have caused the failure of diplomatic actions towards Putin since 2014 - however NATO and Ukraine were obviously not prepared to counter an inevitable Russian military move/option. So you play with big fire - an extinguisher near by won't help much.

Now half the forest is on fire and every community you call upon will tell you the same: Sorry we only have one Fire-engine that we need for ourself, but we will send you some fire extinguishers.

 

[500]

WW1 Battle of Somme 2016
Donetsk region 2022

 

[Jagdflieger]

Reminds me of Vietnam: US forces deploying 50t of aircraft bombs, 10t of artillery grenades and 50,000 small caliber ammo towards 2 suspected VC's.
Lesson: don't hesitate to employ excessive usage of ammo to avoid own human losses.

 

[Bogeyman]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534470556862631936

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534497485237932032

 

[Era_shield]

Igor Girkin draws parallels between war in Ukraine and the Russo-Japanese war

Going back to the war. Upon arriving to the theatre of operations and facing (expectedly, by the way) a significant superiority of the Japanese forces in the Manchurian theatre of operations, Kuropatkin (Aleksey Kuropatkin, Russian Imperial Minister of War, and later Field Commander) began implementing his long-term (it was approved annually since 1901) plan of a gradual retreat while conducting rearguard battles, with only one objective – to prevent the army from being encircled and defeated until it can go on an equal footing (it was not about the formal numbers, but rather supplies – the Russian armies experienced a serious shortage of EVERYTHING at the time) to resist the Japanese. Thus, he was retreating with battles (Liaoyang, Shaho, and a few more). However, Petersburg (“the society”) did not want to know anything about the superiority of “macaques” in numbers and weaponry. They demanded victories, and fast victories. The result is well known: at the sea – a horrific defeat at Tsushima, on land – a heavy (although not a complete) defeat at Mukden (which was quite possible to win – here the Russian numbers were higher than that of the Japanese, but the “human factor” played a role – Kuropatkin with his indecisiveness and emphasis on passive defence was unable to win or at least bring the battle to a draw). These completely unexpected defeats (from “savages”!) became the trigger for the revolution that began in the Empire. And in turn, the revolution prevented from winning the protracted war.



How did it look like? – This is how. After Tsushima and Mukden the Russian high command (i.e. Tsar, court, and Ministry of War) became smarter – carried out a mobilisation, started “emergency” construction of new railway lines, junctions and interchanges (and improved as much as possible the communication with the Far East, which at the start of the campaign did not just lack infrastructure for supplies, but was generally in a shoddy state). It urgently purchased from abroad as many machine guns as possible (although, at that time the Japanese army didn’t have that many either – roughly as many as we did in our army), significantly increased weapon, ammunition and equipment production. By the end of the war the Manchuria theatre of operations saw deployment of an army that was huge (for those places) and decently supplied with everything necessary, which stood against no more than 300,000 Japanese soldiers. But… it was too late – the economy was trembling, “the society” was raging, mutinies in the army and fleets have started – basically, the “revolution got going”. So Petersburg had to agree to a humiliating and forced peace agreement. All to the applause of the “Respected Western partners” (Japan had sympathisers and was directly assisted with weapons and loans by Great Britain, USA, France… only the German Empire was loyal to Russia – “Cousin Willy” saw an opportunity to break the Russo-French military alliance).



Why am I writing all of this? For the same reasons I spoke about before – the war in the so-called “ukraine” is painfully reminding me of the events of a hundred years ago. Moscow clearly was going to carry out a “small victorious colonial war”, deploying just the staff army without overburdening the economy. “The society” was expecting a “fast victory” (which Kremlin was shouting about from every corner in the first days of the operation). Three months have passed. Thank God, so far we haven’t had new Tsushimas or Mukdens (although the “run to the border” is a wonderful in its humiliating uselessness – it can hardly be called a “victory”). However, the Kremlin is stubbornly attempting to continue with the “colonial expedition”, without taking things seriously and fighting for real. While the enemy (which again is helped by the “respected Western partners” with all their might) is fighting more than seriously.



The internal political situation in the Russian Federation is also very similar to that of the eve of 1905. The authorities are frankly UNPOPULAR and are often despised in all socially active layers of the society. They only hold on thanks to bureaucracy – outrageously inefficient and thoroughly (disgustingly) corrupt. The Armed Forces are demonstrating the same depressing inefficiency, while its command – inability for adequate management (Shoygu and Gerasimov are as far from Kuropatkin in their professionalism as a petty wedding toastmaster from Bolshoi Theatre performer). In addition, instinctively feeling their own “anti-effectiveness” and unpopularity, the authorities are clearly afraid of conducting even the most necessary of the mobilisation measures – afraid of “shaking up the stability”. But when they do decide (the course of the war will inevitably force them to) – they will do it in the very last moment, when the “trust credit” from the society will be fully exhausted, while the deteriorating socio-economic situation of the population will be capable of provoking an explosion of anger…

 

[Soldier30]

The work of Russian special forces in Ukraine was caught on video. The purpose of the special forces was to find a mobile Ukrainian crew with a mortar. According to the results of the battle, two servicemen of Ukraine were destroyed and one was taken prisoner, the wounded was provided with medical assistance.

Russian troops have discovered the first abandoned examples of new Western weapons in Ukraine. The first caterpillar armored vehicle YPR-765 delivered earlier from Holland to Ukraine was found abandoned. The reason why the crew abandoned the YPR-765 armored personnel carrier is not clear, visually the equipment is intact. It is possible that the armored vehicle broke down, since the deliveries were not of new models, but of equipment from storage, or the crew abandoned it to avoid death. Armored vehicle YPR-765 is equipped with aluminum armor, which provides protection against small arms. The 267 horsepower Detroit Diesel Allison 6V-53T engine provides a top speed of 61 kilometers per hour and a range of 490 kilometers.

 

[B.t.N]

The work of Russian special forces in Ukraine was caught on video. The purpose of the special forces was to find a mobile Ukrainian crew with a mortar. According to the results of the battle, two servicemen of Ukraine were destroyed and one was taken prisoner, the wounded was provided with medical assistance.

Russian troops have discovered the first abandoned examples of new Western weapons in Ukraine. The first caterpillar armored vehicle YPR-765 delivered earlier from Holland to Ukraine was found abandoned. The reason why the crew abandoned the YPR-765 armored personnel carrier is not clear, visually the equipment is intact. It is possible that the armored vehicle broke down, since the deliveries were not of new models, but of equipment from storage, or the crew abandoned it to avoid death. Armored vehicle YPR-765 is equipped with aluminum armor, which provides protection against small arms. The 267 horsepower Detroit Diesel Allison 6V-53T engine provides a top speed of 61 kilometers per hour and a range of 490 kilometers.

Are we having fun yet? The wiener contest goes on, man!

 

[Indian gir lion]

India dosnet

World wide agencies responsible to observe and apply sanctions on russia are watching closely Who will try to buy this stolen grain.
Then this agencies will start procedure to include this individuals or country to next sanctions.
Are there such country to screw them self?

I thought that India is closes friend with russia and chance is higher that they may buy this stolen grain .
India is one of big buyers of lot of things from russia is no.

Yes you are right
We buy from them, but military equipment and secure our energy supplies
My deep condolences to the people of Ukraine who are subjected to this vulgar display of naked aggression by Russia but usa and its Gulf allies are playing a double game with us
Saudi Arabia recently revised oil prices , for all types of oil and for all countries.
India is in joint ownership with Russia for some oil fields .
We dont just buy from them .
As far as wheat is concerned ,India produces enough for its own for its 1.37 billion souls .
Pakistani prime minister went to Russia, on the eve of invasion to buy wheat precisely because their crops are failing for some reason since last few years .

 

[Woland]

I don't quite agree with your assessment since you might not be aware of the NATO-Ring exchange program and agreements.
1. So far NATO has not agreed towards sending modern heavy weapons or aircraft. It is just individual States pushing for such deliveries - which is meaningless, but provides good propaganda.
2. NATO has only agreed towards sending modern artillery systems on 1st of June - which is now being done.
3. Germany via direct weapon deliveries has so far contributed around $400 million and on direct economic/humanitarian help around $350 million.
4. Germany has taken in around 600,000 Ukrainian refugees - and they are not living in tents. But are being integrated into the society - this alone costs around $500 million a month - since April.

5. NATO-Ring exchange:
Tanks, APC/AFV, AA and SAM systems from Czechia, Slovenia and Romania have been provided - and Germany is actually paying for them (replacements) for ca. $130million.
The UK and Germany made a deal with Poland to provide 230T-72 tanks to Ukraine - to be replaced by Challenger and Leo II tanks. (that deal alone will cost the UK and Germany around $1,5 Billion) Unfortunately all three parties haven't worked out the details. UK has send Challenger tanks, however manned and stationed in Poland with British crews - none have been handed over.
The Marder's are presently practically useless and it will take till around October-November for those to get ready. Therefore via NATO ring exchange Germany proposed to Greece to send those ex NVA BMP's to Ukraine (all had been refurbished by Germany).

One also needs to keep in mind that Ukraine is asking for modern heavy weapons - none of which are available in sufficient quantities within the European NATO- in regards to a single type.
Logistically, and in regards to maintenance and training it is idiotic to send e.g. 40 Challenger, 40 Leo II, 40 Leclerc and 40 Abrams to Ukraine.
I am not pointing fingers - but why doesn't the USA send e.g. 400 Abrams and 500 Bradley's? they have the quantity and can arrange for NATO to pay for them.

Both Germany and France (plus others-believe me) do not envisage a Ukrainian victory that includes driving the RF out of Ukraine - it will be a stalemate at best within the present front-line.
So enter negotiations now or in 6 or 12 month? with no change of respectively occupied territory but further destruction of the Ukraine infrastructure and tens of thousand more civilian casualties in the next 6-12 month?
Everyone in NATO is talking about Ukraine's "wishes" - which off course makes sense from a NATO point of view and Ukraine having been attacked.
But Putin also has his "wishes" - and the more he looses the less he will be willing to negotiate onto the terms.

My personal opinion: both, NATO and Ukraine have caused the failure of diplomatic actions towards Putin since 2014 - however NATO and Ukraine were obviously not prepared to counter an inevitable Russian military move/option. So you play with big fire - an extinguisher near by won't help much.

Now half the forest is on fire and every community you call upon will tell you the same: Sorry we only have one Fire-engine that we need for ourself, but we will send you some fire extinguishers.

I will respond to you in good conscience.

Germany's ring-exchange program now looks laughable; Greece has stated it will not send the BMP-1s before German Marders are refurbished and transported to its islands. https://www.businessinsider.de/poli...chenen-schweren-waffen-aus-deutschland-steht/

NATO has been sending modern heavy artillery since April, not June. In April M777s were delivered by US (108 of them), Australia (6), Canada (4). France delivered 12+6 Caesars last month. All this time Scholz has been providing excuses. So far Germany has not sent a single piece of heavy weaponry. Scholz's claim that there is an informal agreement by NATO countries not to send Western tanks was refuted by the Czech defence minister, UK's defence minister, and multiple other government officials.

We're not looking for money, we need weapons. Now, not later. In fact, if Germany were to stop helping Ukraine entirely, but also stop buying Russian oil and gas, that would be an excellent trade. Instead, German foreign policy, especially after Russia invaded Crimea and Donbas, has enabled Russia. Over 40% of the Russian government’s revenue comes from oil and gas exports, and Germany is by far the #1 importer, buying 220m euro per day of Russian energy. There is no country in the world more responsible for Russia's current ability to wage war than Germany. If anyone disagrees, I challenge you to name that alternative country. Yet instead of urging their government to do the right thing, Germans spend their time defending it online.

That said, judging by the age of your account and your arguments, I think it's more likely you're just a Russian troll. I've responded to your arguments mostly for the sake of other forum members. I won't bother responding to "both, NATO and Ukraine have caused the failure of diplomatic actions towards Putin since 2014" because everyone here finds that statement laughable. Have a good day, comrade.

 

[Jagdflieger]

I will respond to you in good conscience.

Me too

Germany's ring-exchange program now looks laughable; Greece has stated it will not send the BMP-1s before German Marders are refurbished and transported to its islands. https://www.businessinsider.de/poli...chenen-schweren-waffen-aus-deutschland-steht/

Obviously Ukraine and you don't seem to appreciate anything that came and is coming from Germany

NATO has been sending modern heavy artillery since April, not June. In April M777s were delivered by US (108 of them), Australia (6), Canada (4). France delivered 12+6 Caesars last month. All this time Scholz has been providing excuses. So far Germany has not sent a single piece of heavy weaponry.

Modern artillery since 1st of June are referring to MLRS.

Scholz's claim that there is an informal agreement by NATO countries not to send Western tanks was refuted by the Czech defence minister, UK's defence minister, and multiple other government officials.

It doesn't matter what some defense minister says - they don't run the country. Show me the NATO resolution in regards to supplying modern western tanks

We're not looking for money,

Okay - then Ukraine or you can return ca. $ 3 Billion economic and humanitarian aid. And Germany should send back 600,000 Ukrainian refugees.

... Instead, German foreign policy, especially after Russia invaded Crimea and Donbas, has enabled Russia.

Unfounded Ukrainian propaganda

There is no country in the world more responsible for Russia's current ability to wage war than Germany.

Ridiculous accusation

That said, judging by the age of your account and your arguments, I think it's more likely you're just a Russian troll.

Then you must be a Ukrainian/US troll

I've responded to your arguments mostly for the sake of other forum members.

Really? via posting unfounded accusations - great job

I won't bother responding to "both, NATO and Ukraine have caused the failure of diplomatic actions towards Putin since 2014" because everyone here finds that statement laughable.

Everyone? or just you and a handful of others?

Have a good day, comrade.

I don't really care

 

[Bogeyman]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534653383847690240

 

[what]

Shall we consider this reply "ad hominem" too? since there's no much difference between my reply and yours.

I understand that you are angry and feel like I did you wrong, but believe it or not, I log in and screen the forum and delete/warn whatever my eyes catch. You are free to report anything that I have missed, but you are overreacting with at least 5 posts now about it in different threads for a simple deleting of one of your posts.

 

[what]

And delivered none of it. Scholz has been saying all the right things, while doing as little as possible. The recent Marder announcement is an excellent example; after Ukraine asked for the Marders for months and Germany used every excuse in the book, Germany finally decided to give the Marders to Greece, while Greece will send lower-quality old BMPs to Ukraine. However, Greece has stated that they will only send their BMPs to Ukraine AFTER they have approved, received and refurbished the Marders.

And as for what happened before April 22, I wrote a whole thread about it: https://defencehub.live/threads/scholz’s-lies-and-manipulations-to-avoid-sending-weapons-to-ukraine.12973/

Also, he clearly states that nobody has given as much as Germany, and only afterwards corrects himself. I speak fluent German. And that's even without mentioning that the country financing Russia's war more than anyone else is Germany, and that Germany's foreign policy for many years has been civilizing Russia through trade and ignoring Ukraine. A strategy which German government officials at this point admit was an abject failure. And approving Nordstream 2 after Crimea and Donbas were invaded, resisting stronger sanctions, etc. The list goes on and on.

I did not mean to defend Scholz, I just thought that the quote seemed a bit off and wanted to deliver some context.
Germanys response has been weak and continues to be weak, no doubt about it.

 

[Era_shield]

Gee, what a surprise:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534615136467550209

 

[chibiyabi]

Gee, what a surprise:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534615136467550209

can he choose better excuse

 

[Jagdflieger]

I did not mean to defend Scholz, I just thought that the quote seemed a bit off and wanted to deliver some context.
Germanys response has been weak and continues to be weak, no doubt about it.

In regards to Military support - no I don't agree, (Germany's law actually forbids weapon deliveries into crisis or zones of war) As such Scholz even broke the law by sending to Ukraine in regards to what has been send so far and is going to be send) And this law has not been revoked or altered by a parliamentary vote.
So what ever the present German foreign or defense minister says; is simply there private opinion or blah, blah.

Despite being hampered by weapon export control laws - Germany presently stands at rank 4 - with 1.39 billion euro

A chancellor and government who break the law - should actually be removed - after all we need to defend our democratic rights and freedom in Germany too.
In regards to humanitarian and economic aid - Germany is the No.2 contributor by far.

If so feel free to point out Switzerland that has delivered 0 military aid, but adheres to it's laws - something I respect utmost.
France is known to export weapons to anywhere - it's Ukraine contribution is 160 million euro - roughly an 8th of Germany's unlawful contribution

It is not my intention to point at others - but I find it unfair and unrealistic to criticize Germany for being weak in it's support towards Ukraine. Despite holding rank
4 in regards to weapon deliveries with 1.39 billion euro and economic/humanitarian aid of almost 3 billion euro.

 

[Bogeyman]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534805557042991104

 

[500]

Another clown performance from Kadyrov's forces. After defeating traffic lights in Mariupol they attack bushes:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534452422390710273