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Russian T-62's = Mostly garbageThis was a February 2, 2022 article before news articles start showing Ukrainians as gods of war. https://www.army-technology.com/features/russia-ukraine-tanks-t-64-t-72-t-14-invasion-nato/
View attachment 52706
Of course, Ukraine got a shit load of more tanks from the middle east like 100 T-72s from Morroco and post-soviet block countries, but a dim light is visible at the end of the tunnel for Russia while Ukraine is stuck in the catacombs of France with no rescue teams. Depending on when they are out of soviet tanks and switching to leopards, challengers and leclercs this war will be over before 2024 unless the U.S. wants to start sending Abrams or if Europe can afford to start tank production lines that can outproduce what gets destroyed in ukraine However, this proves that Russian loss claims make sense than what bullshit Oryx makes up if they are talking about supplying them with western tanks which will all get destroyed in the same manner. the next tanks Ukraine will have available for offensives is themselves with armored flesh and bones.
Bakhmut is not captured but I will drink to this news with my own opinion. I would be horrified than happy about Ukraine receiving leopards, challengers, because it starts raising questions like what happened to all the T-72s weYawn. Only Russians actually believe that the quantity of armor the Russians claim to have is legitimate. How many thousands of those tanks and IFVs are rotting husks, horribly maintained and only capable to be used for parts? Furthermore, a HUGE number of their vehicles are completely obsolete, Soviet era crap, no more capable than the M113's and the BTRs that the Ukrainians are using. supplied you with before and when the war started?
You saw that 2021 armoured inventory list yourself and you can go find a 2013 one but there is no point even trying since the U.S. and Ukraine already admitted themselves that they were getting supplied and trained, yet the point remains that Bradley's, leopards and Abrams should have been sent at the beginning of the war than oh shit we need to train the Ukrainians now to use western equipment which makes it look like this war is not going as what the U.S. planned similar to Russia sending a small force at the beginning of the operation. I can say western equipment is trash based on the performance in the middle east along with the turks experience using leopards in Syria but luckily for them they are developing their own MBTs. So we will finally see how western equipment will perform in this war based on what happened in the middle east and only than users in this forum will finally treat western equipment as non-magical non-divine equipment to learn.Russian T-62's = Mostly garbage
Russian T-72A / AV / B = Mostly garbage
BMP-1 = Garbage
MT-LB = Garbage
BTR 60 = Garbage
A significant amount of the Russian armor that you're so excited about, is trash. Hundreds of pieces were abandoned when the Kharkiv front collapsed. Hundreds more pieces were destroyed when Russia was utterly humiliated in their attempt to attack Kiev.
Russian artillery is legitimate. That is why the only major successes they've had in the war is when they've chosen to level a city to dust, rather than try to occupy it, because leap frogging artillery is the only thing the Russians know how to do with any kind of competence. Their combined arms capability is trash. Their junior leadership and autonomy is trash. Their command and control decisions are largely trash. Their logistics are laughable compared to their American adversaries. They have MAYBE 2000 quality tanks remaining and a shitload of artillery that they are slowly running out of ammunition for. Their frequency of fire with their artillery has already slowed immensely, in an attempt to conserve their quickly dwindling ammunition stockpiles. Earlier in the conflict they were firing roughly 20,000 artillery rounds per day. That number has been cut down to 5000-6000 rounds, as they were firing rounds at a rate that they had chance of replenishing.
The good thing for Russia is that absolutely do not value human life (especially the lives of their own men). Therefore, they can continue to zerg rush Ukrainian defenses in an attempt to overrun them, and save their precious artillery rounds and high end tanks (such as their T-90's) in the process.
This was a February 2, 2022 article before news articles start showing Ukrainians as gods of war. https://www.army-technology.com/features/russia-ukraine-tanks-t-64-t-72-t-14-invasion-nato/
View attachment 52706
Of course, Ukraine got a shit load of more tanks from the middle east like 100 T-72s from Morroco and post-soviet block countries, but a dim light is visible at the end of the tunnel for Russia while Ukraine is stuck in the catacombs of France with no rescue teams. Depending on when they are out of soviet tanks and switching to leopards, challengers and leclercs this war will be over before 2024 unless the U.S. wants to start sending Abrams or if Europe can afford to start tank production lines that can outproduce what gets destroyed in ukraine However, this proves that Russian loss claims make sense than what bullshit Oryx makes up if they are talking about supplying them with western tanks which will all get destroyed in the same manner. the next tanks Ukraine will have available for offensives is themselves with armored flesh and bones.
Bakhmut is not captured but I will drink to this news with my own opinion. I would be horrified than happy about Ukraine receiving leopards, challengers, because it starts raising questions like what happened to all the T-72s we supplied you with before and when the war started?
In summary:
In total, according to CBRT and BZtRVT, 2,075 tanks are relatively combat-ready (886 of them are being preserved under dry air), 1,304 tanks are in storage, and 2,299 tanks are for disposal. A total of 5,678 tanks and 1,330 tank spaces in hangars.
If I tell this board that russian reports say 7,500 armored vehicles accounting tanks and IFVs were destroyed no one would even bother to agree or acknowledge that it happened but since we have news reports of how much equipment Ukraine got supplied and all the talks about bradleys, challengers and abrams being supplied than its really fucking bad, The tanks getting ""restored"" must be getting destroyed again or we would not have pro-western sources talking about supplying western vehicles in the 1st place and you know that. You already know that I think Oryx is dogshit in terms of Ukrainian claims but if I play along with you and some users here thinking it is true than Russia would still absolutely have more armored vehicles to spare compared to the 2021 chart I pulled here a while ago. You only have one tweet and that mobilization tweet could be for their existing reserves that have still not joined any offensives yet because it this past week it was just PMC Wagner pushing the AFU back, not the chechens, DPR, etc or the reserves yet or even announcements from Putin himself getting active duty troops involved. Russia could also be concerned about countries like Poland or more post-soviet block countries getting involved in the war and that is still a great possibility.Those numbers are like the Bradleys being destroyed before entering Ukraine.
There you might find an interesting article about a rough assesment about how much tanks can be "restored" to be used in the war, based on satellite imagery of their storage facilities:
Аналіз запасів танків РФ на базах зберігання за Уралом
Аналіз запасів танків РФ на базах зберігання за Уралом | Чесні новини про армію, війну та оборонку.mil-in-ua.translate.goog
And you missed three points:
1-Ukranian tanks were also in bad state, some of them could be repaired and put in combat-ready operation.
2-Ukranians regained thousands of square kilometers with a few tank companies and destroyed thousands of Russian tanks with NLAWs/Javelins/etc.
3-Russians are the mayor Ukraine's tank donor as we can see on WSJ article in October:
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There is a lot of "noise" these days in RU channels, as expected, "western tanks will be destroyed" but the reallity:
Nobody would dare believe numbers released by Russia because they release purely delusional, intentionally embellished numbers, purely for propaganda purposes. They have legitimately claimed to have destroyed more items of some equipment than has been sent to Ukraine. It's actually embarrassing how ridiculous the claims that Russia make are. What's worse is that most of the BS passes because they population lives under an authoritarian regime that force the people to believe what they want them to believe. Only a complete fool (like a good majority of the 25% of Russians that still don't have indoor plumbing) would believe in the accuracy of the nonsense that Mother Russia spews.If I tell this board that russian reports say 7,500 armored vehicles accounting tanks and IFVs were destroyed no one would even bother to agree or acknowledge that it happened but since we have news reports of how much equipment Ukraine got supplied and all the talks about bradleys, challengers and abrams being supplied than its really fucking bad, The tanks getting ""restored"" must be getting destroyed again or we would not have pro-western sources talking about supplying western vehicles in the 1st place and you know that. You already know that I think Oryx is dogshit in terms of Ukrainian claims but if I play along with you and some users here thinking it is true than Russia would still absolutely have more armored vehicles to spare compared to the 2021 chart I pulled here a while ago. You only have one tweet and that mobilization tweet could be for their existing reserves that have still not joined any offensives yet because it this past week it was just PMC Wagner pushing the AFU back, not the chechens, DPR, etc or the reserves yet or even announcements from Putin himself getting active duty troops involved. Russia could also be concerned about countries like Poland or more post-soviet block countries getting involved in the war and that is still a great possibility.
As Julian Ropke once said on the kherson grab from Russia, where are all the destroyed Russian equipment? Now if we go compare destroyed Russian vehicles personnel in Kherson like pictures and videos to destroyed Ukrainian equipment and personel in Bakhmut or even Soledar(I know alot of telegram channels but I don't want to piss off admins again of my excessive posting) the reality is pretty haunting. If there are pro-ukraine users here that are like Julian Ropke that give a shit about the war along with results and not the media making bullshit like ghost of kyiv, than talks of bradley, abrams, leopards and challengers would put anyone into a doomer phase because apparently what you claim as restored would have not given the end results of relying on western equipment.
Edit: what i like about announcements of western equipment like leopards, bradleys, abrams challengers, is that no one can bullshit their way out that there 100% soviet supplied equipment is getting closer to zero and that obviously means a fuck load of Ukrainian equipment was destroyed where the loss rate for them is not favorable to winning the war which is all that matters to me.
Western equipment is pretty expensive to produce like Apaches cost 52 million dollars, the UK wants to send this to Ukraine, I have seen Wagner shoot down a Su-24 with MANPADS from 8kms away and short range air defenses shoot down a mig-29 and these ranges are even longer than what Apaches are able to use with hellfire missiles. This is what I mean by affordability even as going as far as supplying 1.2 million Dollars for NASAMs but they dont know if Ukraine is using that for 30,000 dollar iranian drones(even the US got concerned to send some US soldiers to see where their equipment supplied to Ukraine was going based on those losses and how much they have used),
What has the Shahed achieve other than some annoyance ? Its effectiveness has been decreasing from time to time.I mean at this point Russia does not even need to have a bigger economy than Europe or the U.S. Abrams will soon cost of 10 million dollars from 9 million dollars soon enough. But the problem users here fail to understand is just how much firepower Russia is using compared to Ukraine and why they have always used a small force to push a bigger Ukrainian force back. Even the losses Ukraine has claimed would mean reservists would have been launching the offensives to Ukraine in bakhmut but from the map I posted here a while ago it's all convicts from Wagner just doing the fighting but Ukraine bullshitting numbers was nothing new when the war started. And they bullshit again that they wiped out 30k from 40k of Wagner but Wagner is launching more than just one offensive to Bakhmut but other Ukrainian controlled areas and with those kinds of losses you would need to regroup with reinforcements WHICH the Russians have not announced, and the offensives launched were immediate.
But switching to soviet to western made equipment tells us one thing that any pro-ukraine user here cant deny, and that is Russians must have destroyed A LOT of Ukrainian equipment and that is a lot if it got supplied by post-soviet block countries and the middle east if they need to switch to western made equipment. So now countries in NATO will have to decide if they want to deplete their own armed forces to become vulnerable or if their economy despite energy costs and living is good enough to send their equipment to Ukraine but able to afford to get new produced equipment and produce enough to help Ukraine's loss rate and based on production capabilities and how much tanks they are able to produce makes the idea laughable. SINCE they are switching to western equipment once they do that this means they have lost more than 3000 MBTs and even more IFVs based on their own reports, so lets see how generous Europe will be with leopards or see how many bradleys will be supplied until they go oh shit later again, because if they are generous enough to give as much as being left with no tanks for themselves and starting no production for themselves than this war will be over before 2024(that is excluding Abrams or if they will be trained to use those tanks besides training for leopards). I have seen how leopards have performed in Syria.
You really want to know whats delusional? Claiming 75% of wagner got eliminated when they right now as we speak launching advances towards Bakhmut and Seversk but sometimes I worry and wonder if users have an IQ that is atleast above room temperature to say hey I think this is another Ukrainian ghost of kyiv story. The Bullshit spreading got so bad for Ukraine that Arestovich got tired of it himself, spoke his mind and now is getting arrested in Ukraine. Than there are daily tweets everyday of AFU figiting civilians that I am getting tired of posting it here.Nobody would dare believe numbers released by Russia because they release purely delusional, intentionally embellished numbers, purely for propaganda purposes. They have legitimately claimed to have destroyed more items of some equipment than has been sent to Ukraine. It's actually embarrassing how ridiculous the claims that Russia make are. What's worse is that most of the BS passes because they population lives under an authoritarian regime that force the people to believe what they want them to believe. Only a complete fool (like a good majority of the 25% of Russians that still don't have indoor plumbing) would believe in the accuracy of the nonsense that Mother Russia spews.
You might not believe Oryx's numbers (that's your prerogative) but others have corroborated similar numbers. Just today British Parliament was talking about Russia having lost nearly 1700 tanks thus far (between those destroyed and those taken by Ukraine). Those numbers are reasonably in line with Oryx's. It actually makes sense from a logical perspective as well, given that Russia is pulling T-62s out of their storage reserve due to a shortage of some of their newer models. Good luck explaining that away. Here's a Forbes article from November 28th. At the time it claimed Russia had lost roughly 1500 tanks. Again, that number is roughly in line with what Oryx claims.
You get what you paid for. There's a reason why 8 "overly expensive HIMARS" done what Russia's hundreds of "cheap and plentiful" analogue (Tornado,Smerc) can't do. Mainly defeat an entire offensive and switch the favor from defense to offense.
Shahads get overused to the point that no one bothers to talk about them and when they claim russia is out of missiles more missile strikes happen later. I mean its not really rubbish when PMC wagner pushing the entire AFU back, chechen, DPR and other groups are not involved with Wagner nor are the reserves or active-duty pool. I think NATO sounds like its in a fucked position if it has to talk about sending western equipment when we already got a good armoured vehicle inventory list of Ukraine prior to the war and not counting all the additional soviet gear that got sent to them during the warWhat has the Shahed achieve other than some annoyance ? Its effectiveness has been decreasing from time to time.
And as for you keep saying how Russia always uses less to defeat more , its rubbish. This is even more rubbish then when the Russians are coping with statements like " The real Russian army is in Russia waiting for NATO".
This is bullshit again the US and its allies could have sent western equipment before or during the war and not beg some random middle eastern country like Morocco to go send 100 T-72s to Ukraine. They could no longer find any countries to beg to which is why they are resorting to sending western equipment now.Wrong, mainly because the Ukrainians no longer have the necessary ammunition to fire from their legacy T-64/80, BM-21 and other Soviet era stocks. Ammo has been their main concern all along, not to mention the lesser effectiveness of Soviet/Russian weapons.
PzH2000 >>> MSTA
HIMARS >>> Smerch/Uragan
Leopard 2 >>> T-64/72/80/90
To this date the kill ratio still favor the Ukrainians.
8708 Russian equipment losses
2804 Ukrainian equipment losses
1614 Russian MBT losses to 449 Ukrainian ones
1912 Russian IFV losses to 450 Ukrainian ones
media war is about pick info that you need, throw the other. unfortunately, for majority around the globe, western media easier to believe because check n balance process still work, even in twitland. you will see a lot of twitter account said it's not true ( that UA still in soledar) that you will not see in RU pro accounts..accept that crazy igor girkinPlease just tell me you are joking with those statistics before I even decide to bother replying back. EDIT: I mean like come on dude Ukrainians are still claiming that they are in Soledar while no longer being in it.
Yes, they stopped the Russian offensive by blowing their ammo depots to the point that the "artillery army" of Russia no longer be able to support its traditional way of carpet bombing the entire front. The Kharkiv offensive and the following re-capture of Kherson is a testament to that. What Wagner is doing right now is irrelevant to the HIMARS performance.The only thing memorable about HIMARS to be honest with you is that for months on end they kept hitting the kherson bridge but the Russians finally blew it up for them, and if those HIMARS magically stopped russian offensive and made ukrainian offensives possible than tell me WTF is wagner doing right now?
Because its no longer relevantShahads get overused to the point that no one bothers to talk about them
This is bullshit again the US and its allies could have sent western equipment before or during the war and not beg some random middle eastern country like Morocco to go send 100 T-72s to Ukraine. They could no longer find any countries to beg to which is why they are resorting to sending western equipment now.
Not better but equal (to the L52 variant).Koalition howitzer is better than Pzh2000
As the Kharkiv and Kherson offensive suggest this is irrelevant, because the HIMARS GMLRS rounds are simply more accurate and produced in more numbers than Russians could ever produced its analogues.Smerch has a longer range than HIMARS and this is not get even talking about the tornado MRLS systems being mass produced.
Ok I concur. But even then L44 equipped gun Leo 2 if armed with lets say the M829A4 would easily defeat T-90M or even T-14. But it seems that Ukraine will have to do with older DM33 rounds for the time being.Leopard 2 depends on variation like the 2A4s that were used in Syria by Turks got fucked with fagots and konkurs and this is not even the latest ATGMs the russians have stockpiled, and T-90 depends on variation with the Leopard 2s.
Shahads get overused to the point that no one bothers to talk about them and when they claim russia is out of missiles more missile strikes happen later. I mean its not really rubbish when PMC wagner pushing the entire AFU back,