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Live Conflict Ukraine-Russia War
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contricusc
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Is this serious, or is it meant as a joke?
contricusc
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It comes from various sources of Western folklore and myths, and it was popularized by the Tolkien’s novel Lord of the Rings and by the game series Warcraft.
No. Orc represent some brutish demonic humanoids that are savage, cruel and stupid.
Nobody cares anymore about what happend centuries ago when the Mongols or Huns invaded. If a nation acts in a civilized way now, its people are not called orcs.
Nobody calls current day Mongolians “orcs”, because they are not acting like the Russians. Nobody called the Russians ”orcs” before the invasion. They earned this title last year.
Nobody in Europe has anything against Turks and Mongols anymore. Maybe it was true a century ago, but not anymore.
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Ukraine is understood to have received one of two Patriot air defence systems promised by the US and Germany, but it is not yet operational.
It is also expecting some Patriot launchers from the Netherlands.
The Patriot is the most advanced medium-range air defence system the west can offer — but it has not been tested against Kinzhals.
A similar system, the Samp-T, promised by France and Italy, is also yet to arrive.
www.ft.com
It is also expecting some Patriot launchers from the Netherlands.
The Patriot is the most advanced medium-range air defence system the west can offer — but it has not been tested against Kinzhals.
A similar system, the Samp-T, promised by France and Italy, is also yet to arrive.
Military briefing: Russian hypersonic missiles bring new menace to Ukraine
Barrage of high-velocity projectiles reinforces need for better Ukrainian air defences
Gary
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People has been talking about if the Patriot is up to the task of destroying Iskander in the face of yesterdays massive Kinzahl barrage targetting Ukraine's cities, but forget 2 important points:
Let's take an example from 2 other major power (U.S and China)
- IIRC, the Patriots aren't even online yet
- Is the Kinzhal even works the way the Russians advertised them to be.
- Ability to fly hypersonic
- Ability to do complex maneuver while being hypersonic
- extraordinary range of up to 2000km
Let's take an example from 2 other major power (U.S and China)
>U.S
The U.S has yet to field a missile capable of the likes of Kinzhal with its stated capability. The PrSM program of long range missile would only have the capability to hit "moving objects" only in its third increment (PrSM incr.3) and its not even yet moved to increment 2 atm.
> China
China has proven that it can hit moving ships and this is actually confirmed back then, but under what circumstances is unclear and China even to this day still keep testing their DF-21Ds in the Gobi desert against moving "land ships".
Russia is the least advanced and least financed from the big powers but its quite surprising that they field the likes of Kinzhal, Zircon etc much much early than its rivals. Questions need to be raised here.
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We know the Patriot is a constant failure based on a misfired Ukrainian SAM that destroyed a polish tractor, iranian drones destroying saudi oil facilities and the drone warfare in Ukraine is even worse than that, Israelis saying the system is shit that they developed their own air defense system, turkey dropped it for the S-400.
Most air defenses including naval ones occasionally fail intercepting ballistic missiles or usually succeed and that is by using satellites and ground radar systems nearby.
Most western air defenses intercept missiles that travel a simple trajectory that only maneuver in the re-entry phase and not the launch or midcourse phase, not ones that maneuver in every phase like this.
iskander and kinzhal are like the same shit as the Topol or have more G maneuvers in their flights. The Russians specifically created the 2 stage Hermes MLRS project because the missiles can hit tanks 100kms away but offer maneuvering capabilities throughout its flight path. Russians have intercepted simple MLRS systems many times with their short-range air defense systems which is why they planned ahead on making Hermes and Klevok-D2 missile projects.....I still have not even gotten an answer here if Ukraine would receive air defense systems that are comparable or even better than pantsir, tor, vityaz or buk systems. Because one user told me why would the saudi's waste multimillion dollar SAMs on iranian drones that cost 30,000 dollars which is a good point, but if they did not want to waste those missiles than what other air defenses could they have used? We dont want Ukraine to waste multimillion dollar SAM interceptors on Iranian drones so what will they use against iranian drones if they are smacking Ukraine around?
Sometimes this forum needs an asshole like me as many others beg me to disappear.
Most air defenses including naval ones occasionally fail intercepting ballistic missiles or usually succeed and that is by using satellites and ground radar systems nearby.
Most western air defenses intercept missiles that travel a simple trajectory that only maneuver in the re-entry phase and not the launch or midcourse phase, not ones that maneuver in every phase like this.
iskander and kinzhal are like the same shit as the Topol or have more G maneuvers in their flights. The Russians specifically created the 2 stage Hermes MLRS project because the missiles can hit tanks 100kms away but offer maneuvering capabilities throughout its flight path. Russians have intercepted simple MLRS systems many times with their short-range air defense systems which is why they planned ahead on making Hermes and Klevok-D2 missile projects.....I still have not even gotten an answer here if Ukraine would receive air defense systems that are comparable or even better than pantsir, tor, vityaz or buk systems. Because one user told me why would the saudi's waste multimillion dollar SAMs on iranian drones that cost 30,000 dollars which is a good point, but if they did not want to waste those missiles than what other air defenses could they have used? We dont want Ukraine to waste multimillion dollar SAM interceptors on Iranian drones so what will they use against iranian drones if they are smacking Ukraine around?
Sometimes this forum needs an asshole like me as many others beg me to disappear.
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PAC-3 MSE is optimized for TBMs, having an AESA seeker and using kinetic kill approach along with greater manoeuvrability and altitude. It does retain a smaller fragmentation warhead for anti-aircraft or cruise missiles. PAC-2 is the longer range missile (>160 km) optimized for aircraft and cruise missiles, the PAC-2 GEM-T variant adds GaN transmitter for improved guidance & reliability.
One may argue that PAC-3/PAC-2 GEM-T’s AESA seeker and better guidance system will also provide significantly better jamming/countermeasure resistance against manned-aircraft.
The single most important reason why Patriot has much better performance against ballistic missiles is because of PAC-3’s kinetic warhead – hit to kill has far better performance against ballistic missiles like hyper-velocity projectiles. This is why all modern anti-ballistic missile interceptors transitioned to kinetic kill approach. Then you’ve the AESA seeker, greater manoeuverability and 12–16 PAC-3 per launcher – giving much better performance against saturation attacks.
A good review from Jane’s on Patriot’s advancements in recent years: Patriot games: Raytheon’s air-defence system continues to proliferate
One may argue that PAC-3/PAC-2 GEM-T’s AESA seeker and better guidance system will also provide significantly better jamming/countermeasure resistance against manned-aircraft.
The single most important reason why Patriot has much better performance against ballistic missiles is because of PAC-3’s kinetic warhead – hit to kill has far better performance against ballistic missiles like hyper-velocity projectiles. This is why all modern anti-ballistic missile interceptors transitioned to kinetic kill approach. Then you’ve the AESA seeker, greater manoeuverability and 12–16 PAC-3 per launcher – giving much better performance against saturation attacks.
A good review from Jane’s on Patriot’s advancements in recent years: Patriot games: Raytheon’s air-defence system continues to proliferate
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I dont think western air defense systems are that bad as make them out to be. But we need test results of western air defenses intercepting hypersonic maneuverable missiles like this. https://s30116489994.mirtesen.ru/bl...gone-Kapustin-YAr-?ysclid=lf2o9oj1if478835472
Against this background, the 3M20M3 air target simulator missiles of the Penie target complex and the RM-75V / MV of the Armavir target complex, designed on the basis of 3M9 and 5Ya23/24 anti-aircraft missiles of the Kub complex and S-75, have flight speeds from 600 to 1200 m / s, which does not allow them to be included in the list of advanced target missiles capable of simulating promising means of air attack of a potential enemy.
As for the maneuvering qualities of the Favoritov-RM, the high angular speed of the turn and the range of available overloads (25-30 units in the troposphere and the lower layers of the stratosphere and 8-12 units in the upper layers of the stratosphere), characteristic of the standard 5V55R SAM, allow these target missiles to successfully overcome the most powerful anti-missile "umbrellas" formed by most modifications of the Buk, S-300 anti-aircraft missile systems (including PM1 and Antey-2500 and V4) and even S-400 Triumph. After all, it is well known that in order to intercept an air object maneuvering with an overload of 25-30G, the interceptor missile must have an available overload of about 55-60 units, while the SAM types 9M38M1, 9M317, 48N6DM and 9M82MV are capable of carrying out maneuvers with overloads of 25-35 units. missile simulators of the flight task, which provides for maneuvering with overloads of no more than 12-15 units. (with the realization of 50% of the potential), which, obviously, happened during the last tests of the standard modification of the S-400, equipped with the 48N6DM SAM.
In the case of the implementation by the Favorits-RM of anti-aircraft maneuvers with overloads of 25-30G and complex quasi-ballistic flight trajectories with large dive angles in the terminal section, their interception can be performed only with the help of promising Buk-M3, S-350 Vityaz air defense systems and modernized S-400, the ammunition of which is represented by 9M317MA and 9M96DM anti-aircraft guided missiles.
Thanks to the equipping of these SAMs with active radar homing heads of the Slants family with terminals of a two-way asynchronous data exchange line, for the first time in the history of the Air Defense Forces and SAM of the Russian Aerospace Forces, it became possible to intercept the Favoritov-RM and similar high-speed means of air attack of a potential enemy attacking into a "dead funnel". The latter is located above the position of the anti-aircraft missile battalion and is a cone-shaped sector of the airspace outside the vicinity.glomerular sector of the illumination and guidance radar review. Target designation of anti-aircraft missiles 9M317MA and 9M96DM in this case will be able to provide third-party means of radar and optoelectronic reconnaissance.
The unique flight and technical qualities of the 9M317MA and 9M96DM SAM (performing maneuvers with overloads of 60-70G), due to the presence of a gas-jet system for deflecting the thrust vector in the first and gas-dynamic "belts" of transverse control engines at the second, will reveal to the calculations of the Bukov-M3, Vityaz and the updated "four hundred" unprecedented horizons in the field of countering promising American operational-tactical ballistic missiles "Deep Strike" and AGM-183A aeroballistic missiles. The imitation of these elements of high-precision weapons, generated by the outbreak of the arms race against the background of the Pentagon's denunciation of the INF Treaty, is the primary vocation of the Favorit-RM hypersonic target missiles.
I have no information AFAIK about patriots intercepting BMs with maneuvering capabilities throughout their flight and I have not even touched the subject of ramjet, HGVs or scramjet missiles.
Against this background, the 3M20M3 air target simulator missiles of the Penie target complex and the RM-75V / MV of the Armavir target complex, designed on the basis of 3M9 and 5Ya23/24 anti-aircraft missiles of the Kub complex and S-75, have flight speeds from 600 to 1200 m / s, which does not allow them to be included in the list of advanced target missiles capable of simulating promising means of air attack of a potential enemy.
As for the maneuvering qualities of the Favoritov-RM, the high angular speed of the turn and the range of available overloads (25-30 units in the troposphere and the lower layers of the stratosphere and 8-12 units in the upper layers of the stratosphere), characteristic of the standard 5V55R SAM, allow these target missiles to successfully overcome the most powerful anti-missile "umbrellas" formed by most modifications of the Buk, S-300 anti-aircraft missile systems (including PM1 and Antey-2500 and V4) and even S-400 Triumph. After all, it is well known that in order to intercept an air object maneuvering with an overload of 25-30G, the interceptor missile must have an available overload of about 55-60 units, while the SAM types 9M38M1, 9M317, 48N6DM and 9M82MV are capable of carrying out maneuvers with overloads of 25-35 units. missile simulators of the flight task, which provides for maneuvering with overloads of no more than 12-15 units. (with the realization of 50% of the potential), which, obviously, happened during the last tests of the standard modification of the S-400, equipped with the 48N6DM SAM.
In the case of the implementation by the Favorits-RM of anti-aircraft maneuvers with overloads of 25-30G and complex quasi-ballistic flight trajectories with large dive angles in the terminal section, their interception can be performed only with the help of promising Buk-M3, S-350 Vityaz air defense systems and modernized S-400, the ammunition of which is represented by 9M317MA and 9M96DM anti-aircraft guided missiles.
Thanks to the equipping of these SAMs with active radar homing heads of the Slants family with terminals of a two-way asynchronous data exchange line, for the first time in the history of the Air Defense Forces and SAM of the Russian Aerospace Forces, it became possible to intercept the Favoritov-RM and similar high-speed means of air attack of a potential enemy attacking into a "dead funnel". The latter is located above the position of the anti-aircraft missile battalion and is a cone-shaped sector of the airspace outside the vicinity.glomerular sector of the illumination and guidance radar review. Target designation of anti-aircraft missiles 9M317MA and 9M96DM in this case will be able to provide third-party means of radar and optoelectronic reconnaissance.
The unique flight and technical qualities of the 9M317MA and 9M96DM SAM (performing maneuvers with overloads of 60-70G), due to the presence of a gas-jet system for deflecting the thrust vector in the first and gas-dynamic "belts" of transverse control engines at the second, will reveal to the calculations of the Bukov-M3, Vityaz and the updated "four hundred" unprecedented horizons in the field of countering promising American operational-tactical ballistic missiles "Deep Strike" and AGM-183A aeroballistic missiles. The imitation of these elements of high-precision weapons, generated by the outbreak of the arms race against the background of the Pentagon's denunciation of the INF Treaty, is the primary vocation of the Favorit-RM hypersonic target missiles.
I have no information AFAIK about patriots intercepting BMs with maneuvering capabilities throughout their flight and I have not even touched the subject of ramjet, HGVs or scramjet missiles.
Gary
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Yeah, the Patriots are not online and I'm not expecting it to be online in just a few months.
So there's that, the explanation on why the Kinzhal's failed to be intercepted yesterday.
Wikipedia dude, start editing your bullshit
Kh-47M2 Kinzhal - Wikipedia
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Japan plans to start supplying weapons to Ukraine
asia.nikkei.com
Debate on arms exports to take place after local elections in April
The Japanese government has initiated changes to the legislation that will allow the export of weapons to Ukraine.
Japan is considering exporting weapons to countries that are fighting the invasion. In particular, this applies to Ukraine. This is stated in the proposal of the Japanese government, according to Nikkei Asia.
"So far, Japan has sent only bulletproof vests and other non-lethal equipment to Ukraine. Under current rules, Tokyo can transfer combat aircraft, armored vehicles and missiles only to countries that jointly develop and produce equipment," the article says.
The Japanese government, as well as the ruling Liberal Democratic Party, have put forward the idea of expanding the number of countries that have the right to export weapons. Thus, countries that have been attacked by invading forces will qualify for arms exports.
According to Japanese Prime Minister Fumio Kishida, expanded military exports "will be a key political tool to help countries that have been subjected to aggression in violation of international law."
Deputy of the upper chamber Masahisa Sato proposed sending multiple launch rocket systems to Ukraine.
The government and the ruling coalition will start debating arms exports after local elections in April.
As previously reported, Ukraine will receive grant assistance from Japan in the amount of $170 million for the implementation of the Ukraine Rapid Recovery Plan.
In addition, Japan intends to provide $5.5 billion in assistance to Ukraine.
news.yahoo.com
Japan weighs weapon exports to nations under invasion
Push comes as PM Kishida prepares to flex diplomatic muscle while hosting G-7 summit
asia.nikkei.com
Debate on arms exports to take place after local elections in April
The Japanese government has initiated changes to the legislation that will allow the export of weapons to Ukraine.
Japan is considering exporting weapons to countries that are fighting the invasion. In particular, this applies to Ukraine. This is stated in the proposal of the Japanese government, according to Nikkei Asia.
"So far, Japan has sent only bulletproof vests and other non-lethal equipment to Ukraine. Under current rules, Tokyo can transfer combat aircraft, armored vehicles and missiles only to countries that jointly develop and produce equipment," the article says.
The Japanese government, as well as the ruling Liberal Democratic Party, have put forward the idea of expanding the number of countries that have the right to export weapons. Thus, countries that have been attacked by invading forces will qualify for arms exports.
According to Japanese Prime Minister Fumio Kishida, expanded military exports "will be a key political tool to help countries that have been subjected to aggression in violation of international law."
Deputy of the upper chamber Masahisa Sato proposed sending multiple launch rocket systems to Ukraine.
The government and the ruling coalition will start debating arms exports after local elections in April.
As previously reported, Ukraine will receive grant assistance from Japan in the amount of $170 million for the implementation of the Ukraine Rapid Recovery Plan.
In addition, Japan intends to provide $5.5 billion in assistance to Ukraine.
Japan and South Korea may supply weapons to Ukraine in the future, says Foreign Minister Kuleba
Japan and South Korea’s position on the supply of weapons to Ukraine may change in the future, Minister of Foreign Affairs Dmytro Kuleba said in an interview with BBC Ukraine on Feb. 3.
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Two more NASAMS will be handed to Ukraine
www.regjeringen.no
Norway provides Ukraine with NASAMS ground-based air defence system
Norway will provide Ukraine with two complete NASAMS firing units in cooperation with the United States. – Ukraine has a critical need to defend itself against missile attacks, and Norway will assist, says Norway’s minister of defence, Mr. Bjørn Arild ...
www.regjeringen.no
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Per a Pakistani media source, Pakistan 
has agreed to sell Ukraine 44 T-80UD MBTs, in exchange for cash from the West. No news yet on who is financing the purchase, but this wouldn't be the first time that Pakistan has sold weapons to the West, destined for Ukraine. Previously, they've sold both 152 and 155mm artillery shells to Ukraine.
Note that Ukraine sold 320 T-80UD MBTs to Ukraine previously, so they'd basically be getting back tanks that they previously owned.
Waiting for another source to corroborate this news, but there a lot of things that don't get admitted to publically. When T-72 MBTs from Morocco
got shipped to Ukraine, nothing official was announced. In fact, the Moroccans denied it outright, before it later came to light that 20 had been sent, by way of the Czechs.
Reasonably big news if true. 44 MBTs would go a long way towards helping backfill some of the existing tank battalions that have suffered losses of their T-64s, T-72s and T-80s, or they could be combined with Poland's
recent donation of 30 PT-91 Twardys and 30 T-72s, to stand up an entirely new tank brigades, with more than 100 MBTs.
has agreed to sell Ukraine 44 T-80UD MBTs, in exchange for cash from the West. No news yet on who is financing the purchase, but this wouldn't be the first time that Pakistan has sold weapons to the West, destined for Ukraine. Previously, they've sold both 152 and 155mm artillery shells to Ukraine.Note that Ukraine sold 320 T-80UD MBTs to Ukraine previously, so they'd basically be getting back tanks that they previously owned.
Waiting for another source to corroborate this news, but there a lot of things that don't get admitted to publically. When T-72 MBTs from Morocco
got shipped to Ukraine, nothing official was announced. In fact, the Moroccans denied it outright, before it later came to light that 20 had been sent, by way of the Czechs.Reasonably big news if true. 44 MBTs would go a long way towards helping backfill some of the existing tank battalions that have suffered losses of their T-64s, T-72s and T-80s, or they could be combined with Poland's
recent donation of 30 PT-91 Twardys and 30 T-72s, to stand up an entirely new tank brigades, with more than 100 MBTs.Bosniak Revival
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Lol is that why tens of thousands of Muslims violently protest against Israel when a pin drops in the West Bank & are literally silent about Saudi in Yemen & Chinese genocide of Uyghurs?
Sometimes you have to call a spade - a spade
Bosniak Revival
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One thing this war has taught me is that most people only generally care about their own kind.
Most people in Eastern countries dont care about the suffering of the Ukranian people (not saying they should after all to each their own) but seeing many people from Eastern Nations & Africa cheering on Russian Imperialism is just plain sickening.
Especially when Russia has a history of opressing Muslims in Chechnya & Central Asia.
Basically Alot of the people who complained about Western Imperialism have been exposed as hypocrites. I definitley wont care to hear from the whole "why are European countries so evil" crowd anymore.
Per a Pakistani media source, Pakistan
Note that Ukraine sold 320 T-80UD MBTs to Ukraine previously, so they'd basically be getting back tanks that they previously owned.
Waiting for another source to corroborate this news, but there a lot of things that don't get admitted to publically. When T-72 MBTs from Morocco
Reasonably big news if true. 44 MBTs would go a long way towards helping backfill some of the existing tank battalions that have suffered losses of their T-64s, T-72s and T-80s, or they could be combined with Poland's
Pakistan is very desperate for foreign currency right now, would not be surprised if they sell even more of their equipment
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Oh yeah, Pakistan is desperate. Their economy is in shambles. They've also moved more in the direction of co-building tanks with China. Those Chinese model tanks make up the bulk of their tank forces.
If I'm the West, forget 44 of their T-80s. They were originally sold 320 of them by Ukraine in the late 90's.. I'm looking to get 200 of them (two full tank Brigades) back into the hands of the Ukrainians. 2.5 million USD each, for 200 T-80UD's, spare parts, and as many 125mm tank rounds as they'll sell you. I'd be looking to pay about $600 million USD for the purchase, split between 3 Western countries that are willing to cover $200 million of the cost each. A joint British, Canadian and French or Italian project sounds good to me.
2.5 mil for 30 year old tanks with no upgrades is too much, even 1 mil is a lot for those tanks.
