Live Conflict Ukraine-Russia War

[mehmed beg]

So you don't care about people dying, gotcha, doesn't suprize me to be honest.

Strange answer?
Do you f think that I care about people who can cut a little girl ear and put in their pocket, then talk nicely till they got find out with they " trophy" as it once happened in my presence?
Excatly the same kind which is in Novgorod?
Onexcatly what basis your opinion is based? Newly found humanism?
Yes I am very happy for Russians to die, why wouldn't I be happy?
I believe that I saw1000s excatly the same comments from " humanists" inl regards of Palestine?
Difference is that I have some reason for that, what reason some " humanist" from let's say Sweden has?
Oh I forgot how you as European patriot feel about about North Korean troops saving Europe?

 

[contricusc]

But there can be a real peace negotiated, that is infact 100% a fact, and that doesn't mean Russia will attack Ukraine again or other European countries again, this can all be negotiated and sign in paper form, it needs to be thought out very well but everything can be signed and negotiated and put in paper form to absolutely 100% prevent any conflict on European soil from Russia in the future, because there can be many consequences in written form if anything like that happens where Russia would never ever consider something like that.

Wow, you don’t seem to learn anything from history.

Since when can you negotiate a lasting peace with Russia and since when can you protect peace by signing a paper?

How can a signed paper “100% prevent any conflict on European soil from Russia in the future”?

Signed agreements are toilet paper for Putin. If he sees weakness, he will attack, no matter what he signed.

Did the Budapest Memorandum prevent Ukraine’s invasion. Or maybe the Minsk agreements?

it is childish if you believe anything else; but force will deter Putin from future attacks.

Europe needs nuclear weapons, and a lot of them. It also needs a lot of long range missiles and conventional forces. You don’t need a signed paper to mantain peace. You need strong armed forces.

And to address your other points, about the “warmongers” on this forum who don’t want a ceasfire. We don’t want a ceasfire because we know it is to Putin’s advantage, and it will only make things worse in the future. We know what will happen after the ceasfire, and we know Ukraine and Europe are better off without one.

As long as the war continues, Russia cannot rebuild its armed forces and restock with soldiers and equipment, as the war continues to erode their war capacity. Also, as long as the war continues Ukraine receives a lot of military equipment and money to keep its armed forces alive. If there is a ceasfire, Russia will be able to rebuild its army while Ukraine will stop receiving the help it gets now, so the balance of power will quickly grow in favor of Russia. This means that in a few years Russia will be aboe to attack again with much greater force, and Ukraine won’t be able to resist next time.

In the current form, continuing the war is better for Ukraine than it is for Russia, while a ceasfire favors Russia. This is why Zelensky doesn’t want a ceasfire, and Putin wants one. But it seems that you think you know better than Ukraine’s president what is best for Ukraine.

 

[FiReFTW]

Strange answer?
Do you f think that I care about people who can cut a little girl ear and put in their pocket, then talk nicely till they got find out with they " trophy" as it once happened in my presence?
Excatly the same kind which is in Novgorod?
Onexcatly what basis your opinion is based? Newly found humanism?
Yes I am very happy for Russians to die, why wouldn't I be happy?
I believe that I saw1000s excatly the same comments from " humanists" inl regards of Palestine?
Difference is that I have some reason for that, what reason some " humanist" from let's say Sweden has?
Oh I forgot how you as European patriot feel about about North Korean troops saving Europe?

So every Russian person is a horrible person and deserves to die, thats the definition of racism friend.
And Ukranians are also dying in the war not only Russians.

 

[FiReFTW]

Wow, you don’t seem to learn anything from history.

Since when can you negotiate a lasting peace with Russia and since when can you protect peace by signing a paper?

How can a signed paper “100% prevent any conflict on European soil from Russia in the future”?

Signed agreements are toilet paper for Putin. If he sees weakness, he will attack, no matter what he signed.

Did the Budapest Memorandum prevent Ukraine’s invasion. Or maybe the Minsk agreements?

You are too childish if you believe anything else but force will deter Putin from future attacks.

Europe needs nuclear weapons, and a lot of them. It also needs a lot of long range missiles and conventional forces. You don’t need a signed paper to mantain peace. You need strong armed forces.

And to address your other points, about the “warmongers” on this forum who don’t want a ceasfire. We don’t want a ceasfire because we know it is to Putin’s advantage, and it will only make things worse in the future. We know what will happen after the ceasfire, and we know Ukraine and Europe are better off without one.

As long as the war continues, Russia cannot rebuild its armed forces and restock with soldiers and equipment, as the war continues to erode their war capacity. Also, as long as the war continues Ukraine receives a lot of military equipment and money to keep its armed forces alive. If there is a ceasfire, Russia will be able to rebuild its army while Ukraine will stop receiving the help it gets now, so the balance of power will quickly grow in favor of Russia. This means that in a few years Russia will be aboe to attack again with much greater force, and Ukraine won’t be able to resist next time.

In the current form, continuing the war is better for Ukraine than it is for Russia, while a ceasfire favors Russia. This is why Zelensky doesn’t want a ceasfire, and Putin wants one. But it seems that you think you know better than Ukraine’s president what is best for Ukraine.

If the war continues Ukraine will cease to exist in a few years, those are facts no matter what you think or believe, the Ukranians will exhaust their manpower which is already exhausted while Russia will not, its basic math.

And yes, Putin will not attack a country if it means war with NATO, that can all be part of the contract, if you think otherwise you are living in a fantasy.

How hard is it to make it in a written form that any future attack on Ukraine will be an attack on NATO and all countries of NATO will be abided by contract to intervene with force.

 

[contricusc]

If the war continues Ukraine will cease to exist in a few years, those are facts no matter what you think or believe, the Ukranians will exhaust their manpower which is already exhausted while Russia will not, its basic math.

This is simply not true. Ukraine can continue to fight at the current rate of attrition for a very long time, as long as it receives military and economic support from Europe.

Also, the balance of power is slowly titlting in favor of Ukraine as the war progresses, so it would be follish to stop it just now. When the war started, Russia had all the means to pund Ukraine with missiles and drones, while Ukraine had no way to retaliate in kind. Fast forward three years, and now Ukraine aslo has the capability to strike back at Russia with long range drones. The more time it passes, the greater capabilities of long range strike will be acquired by Ukraine, as they are improving their drone technology and are starting to mass produce.

Ukraine will aslo improve its missile technology, and could also receieve Taurus from Germany, in a further blow to Russia’s air defence.

Give it more time, and Ukraine will be able to strike Russia with impunity, and even the playing field. Will the Russians be willing to continue the war once Western Russia is under constant attacks and their industrial base gets slowly destroyed?

How hard is it to make it in a written form that any future attack on Ukraine will be an attack on NATO and all countries of NATO will be abided by contract to intervene with force.

It is impossible. Why? Ask Trump. He clearly stated that NATO membership for Ukraine is out of the question, and that the US will not give security guarantees for Ukraine.

Trump will not defend Ukraine. He said it clearly for everyone to hear. This is why Zelensky knows a ceasfire with Russia is pointless.

 

[mehmed beg]

So every Russian person is a horrible person and deserves to die, thats the definition of racism friend.
And Ukranians are also dying in the war not only Russians.

First of let me educate you, if I as a Bosnian hate Russians then I am a chauvinist not racist, correct? At no point I said that I would like that all Russian die but good deal yes. Why I would wish any good for my arch enemy?
Second, I heard that Marie Le Pen shouting from the top of Parisian roofs how USA is great Allie of France? If she doesn't pretend they it is pretty astonishing statement for French and European so called patriot.
With a bit of luck and some clever moves, France can become the absolute master of Europe, without Anglos poking their noses in European affairs.
France has viable nuclear deterrent, no!
If half of it is payed by the Europeans , France wouldn't have any problems building massive force.
That would assure European security vis a Vis anybody.
So it is really questionable who are those so called Patriots ???

 

[Costin1984]

Best course of action for Europe right now:

1.3% for defence for every EU country, mandatory!
2.Alliance with Turkey and the Arab world, throw full support behind Palestinians, let's choke the US pudel in the ME.
3.Lift sanctions on Iran, let's buy as much oil and gas from them as we can,let's invest in their energy infrastructure.
4.Nuclear weapons with more delivery systems,.

 

[MaciekRS]

What does that have to do with anything, im saying we need PEACE, the war needs to end now, its best for UKRAINE, for Russia, for Europe, for USA, for everyone.

So go to russia and tell that to them, They started it, now they can end it.
From OUR side there is one thing we can do to end this war. We need to end russia so they will HAVE to end this war. Its time for Europe to wake up from this 30 year sleep. There is enemy in sight.

 

[contricusc]

Best course of action for Europe right now:

1.3% for defence for every EU country, mandatory!

Let’s make it 5%, or at least 4%. There is a lot of catching up to do.

2.Alliance with Turkey and the Arab world, throw full support behind Palestinians, let's choke the US pudel in the ME.

This is pretty dangerous, because it would make the US an immediate enemy. Europe needs to take on its enemies one at a time. The first priority is to defeat Russia, while decoupling from the US. Only after achieving full military and nuclear independence from the US and defeating Russia can Europe afford a more confrontational approach towards the US (Israel).

3.Lift sanctions on Iran, let's buy as much oil and gas from them as we can,let's invest in their energy infrastructure.

Iran must first stop helping Russia with weapons and drones. As long as Iran helps Russia, it should be destroyed economically. There needs to be regime change in Iran first.

4.Nuclear weapons with more delivery systems,.

100% correct

 

[blackjack]

"W-we still need to push the Russians out" I want him to explain why he thinks Trump and Vance have denied that request.

I think I might be able to convince even the pro-Ukraine users here to have some agreements with me.

Reason 1) The Americans already signed a mineral deal with the Russians, having the Ukrainians also offer it to them would work as well. However, if both countries are offering 500 billion dollars to the U.S. they don't see the point to throw in any additional money to fund Ukraine's war because they get a bigger return in investment back from the Russians. In other words, Zelensky is not requesting Trump or any of his officials of what he is willing to give up that would counteroffer what the Russians would give to the Americans. I mean if a country is giving you 500 billion dollars but wants 50 billion in aid and the other country is offering 500 billion dollars but wants nothing in return it would make sense who the Trump administration would pick.

Reason 2) Ukraine's manpower is inefficient regardless of what support their country receives and Trump and Vance have said this more than once on multiple occasions. The reason they are telling you to hurry the fuck up is that you still have a region worth trillion dollars and other multiple regions worth billions of dollars and future peace deals will offer bigger demands that won't support you. The reason Trump has said multiple times you won't join NATO and they won't put their boots on the ground is because the results would be more catastrophic for them to help you, than what they will get in return for helping you.

Pro-Ukraine users will choose reason 1, Pro-Russian users will choose reason 2. Now the reasons Zelensky is stalling or waiting so long is that

1. he already made private deals with Europeans(which is why they are still so supportive) that the US does not know about regarding their minerals that the US wants, but he won't admit it.
2. He knows he can't win the war in the end regardless of the support he receives so he is trying to enrich himself as much as possible from the aid he is receiving while still trying to make future profits with whatever he has left with Azov still in power after the war like selling minerals with investors from the west.

Edit: THIS NEWS CAME OUT RIGHT NOW

military shipments from Biden administration might be claimed next

 

[FiReFTW]

So go to russia and tell that to them, They started it, now they can end it.
From OUR side there is one thing we can do to end this war. We need to end russia so they will HAVE to end this war. Its time for Europe to wake up from this 30 year sleep. There is enemy in sight.

End russa, lol, you are delusional. But whatever, everyone can have their own wishes and desires, you are in for a rude awakening tho, hopefully you won't be too disappointed lol.

 

[FiReFTW]

Best course of action for Europe right now:

1.3% for defence for every EU country, mandatory!
2.Alliance with Turkey and the Arab world, throw full support behind Palestinians, let's choke the US pudel in the ME.
3.Lift sanctions on Iran, let's buy as much oil and gas from them as we can,let's invest in their energy infrastructure.
4.Nuclear weapons with more delivery systems,.

Your an European and want an alliance with the arab world? Do you realize what the muslim immigration to Europe has caused, crime rates have sky rocketed in europe in the past years ever since Merkel invited them in.

 

[blackjack]

Today was strictly for "show"

Was having leaders tell Zelensky to be Trump's bitch for an apology also a part of the show's script? I think Zelensky actually fucked up.

 

[Spitfire9]

Don't give me some blank statements, tell me specific countries, what countries in Europe is Russia going to expand into in your opinion?

In my opinion if Russia can get a corridor to Transnistria, Moldova looks very inviting to me. Given a little push, it should fall over.

 

[Spitfire9]

For every warmonger here on this forum, what will Ukraine gain if this war goes on for more years?
Purely from the Ukranian perspective now not the European one.

They are already drained of manpower, the more the war drags on the harder it becomes and the more manpower problems they have, there is no way they will get any territory back that they lost so far they will only keep losing more and more, so what POINT is there to continue the war or to keep the war going for more years from the Ukranian perspective?

They are losing their future also with generations of young men wiped out, their population will suffer greatly in the next 50 years.
More and more destruction for their country as the war goes on.
I seriously fail to understand this logic.

It should not be surprising that when a country is attacked by another country and is partially occupied by it, the country continues to resist even if it is gradually losing more and more of its territory. If the cost of peace is subjugation to a foreign power, many will reject surrender and peace.

 

[blackjack]

The cracks are beginning to unfold.

Vance knows about it in that interview last night, Trump's son knows about it from this tweet, and Musk commented on it saying wow which is why lord Bebos post got over 21 million views on twitter. So, the probability of Trump knowing about it is very high which shows the President has a lot of restraint and patience from speaking his mind about it on social media or to news reporters.

My next safe bet for Zelensky is to immediately apologize because I don't know what's going through Trump's mind right now, and I heard a state of the union address is going to be held on the 4th this month.

 

[FiReFTW]

In my opinion if Russia can get a corridor to Transnistria, Moldova looks very inviting to me. Given a little push, it should fall over.

But who would even want Moldova, no disrespect to Moldovans but the country is a complete and utter sh*t..

 

[FiReFTW]

It should not be surprising that when a country is attacked by another country and is partially occupied by it, the country continues to resist even if it is gradually losing more and more of its territory. If the cost of peace is subjugation to a foreign power, many will reject surrender and peace.

But it's not subjugation it's a fair and just peace with safety guarantees when you see that you will start losing even more in the future so it's best to quit when you still have a say in it.

 

[contricusc]

But who would even want Moldova, no disrespect to Moldovans but the country is a complete and utter sh*t..

You say “no disrespect“ and “the country is a complete and utter sh*t” in the same sentence, and yet you want to be taken seriously?

You are the definition of an arrogant and ignorant Westerner who knows nothing about the world outside his close proximity, yet thinks he is a know-it-all.

Moldova is an amazing democratic country with great people who want to join the European Union and reach their true potential. Unfortunately for them, the evil thug Putin doesn’t want to let them develop and prosper, and ignorants like you in the West think they don’t matter, just because they know nothing about them.

But it's not subjugation it's a fair and just peace with safety guarantees when you see that you will start losing even more in the future so it's best to quit when you still have a say in it.

There is no “fair and just peace with safety guarantees“ on the table for Ukraine. Nobody is offering that to them.

They are being offered an unfair and unjust ceasfire with no safety guarantees. They have absolutely zero reasons to accept this disgrace.

 

[Spitfire9]

But it's not subjugation it's a fair and just peace with safety guarantees when you see that you will start losing even more in the future so it's best to quit when you still have a say in it.

I get your thinking. A bit like if China invaded India and occupied 20% of India's territory, the sensible thing for India to do would be to surrender the occupied territory and its people to China to achieve a fair and just peace.