Live Conflict Ukraine-Russia War

[Saithan]

Why do you people who argument these things always say "Yes its getting worse but its not as bad as in Russia"?

I am seriously curious and wondering about this logic of yours, because it makes no sense to me.

I don't give a crap about how things are in Russia..... or in China..... or in USA..... or in South Africa.... that has NOTHING to do with me? I only care how things are in the places I live in, thats my priority and my only care.

And the fact is we (and in we I mean Europe) have alot of issues and problems and things are getting worse instead of better.

The economy is stagnant, prices going up, housing going up.. those are all facts... add to that the energy crisis and problems we have, the non competitiveness and the list goes on... Europe should focus on solving those things and improving those things not sending billions and billions away to Ukraine (non member of EU).

And before you accuse me of wanting to throw Ukraine under the bus (because I can already see it), I never said that, what I say is that a deal should be made even if it means sacrificing land and giving in to some Russian demands, there should be a clear plan and agreement that no further military action can be possible in the future, DONE... but the war should end, its no good for us, can't you understand that?

I visited Your country last summer. Quite expensive, and people living there close to border with France goes on shopping trips to France and there is a limit on how much you can bring back. The pasport control in the bus. We also went through that.

Switzerland has some issues, how you solve it. I don't know.

Housing, more public housing could be the solution ?

Perhaps Europe should erect laws in place to prevent US hedge fonds and others from buying housing in Europe. They could use all that "money" to pay of US debt.

As I see it US is increasing its debt, while the money printed is used to buy/invest in sound healthy countries where the population is ending up paying off US debt through the money that flows back to US.

To a certain degree.

 

[contricusc]

People like you in high positions is EXACTLY the reason why Europe is going down the drain.

It’s the other way around. If there were people like me in high positions in Europe, we would see high economic growth, low regulations and booming investments in Europe, while Russia would have been defeated by now.

But unfortunately Europe is led by weak socialists who only care about preserving the welfare state at the expense of the long term prospects of the continent.

The only good thing they did lately was not abandoing Ukraine, and even that, they did it very slowly and with excessive fear and limitations. We’re four years in this war, and Europe is still not pumping out drones and missiles like it should have.

After four years since Russia invaded, Europe should have been producing upwards of one million mid and long range drones per year, to be able to saturate Russia with thousands of daily strikes, foricing it to capitulate. It is a disgrace that Ukraine outproduces the entire continent when it comes to drone production. You have a small country under constant bombardment producing more drones than a wealthy continent at peace.

If every medium and big European country produced jusy 50k long range drones per year, Russia would have been defeated by now.

And before you say that would be impossible, Ukraine produces around 70k long range drones per year right now, while being under constant attacks.

A country like Germany should be able to easily produce 200k.

 

[Saithan]

Even if all the 4 points you say are true its done, Europe made its point, Russia got a bloody nose, time to pack up and end this once and for all.

You said it yourself, this is clearly hurting Europe, so why keep hurting? Europe should take care of its own people and its own problems without willingly hurting itself (which it has done MULTIPLE times in the past 20-30 years, many of which has nothing to do with Russia even).

Surely you don't think that keeping on this path forever is a good idea for Europe, you can't possibly be that stubborn or ignorant right?
Russia won't back down here, this war can go on for 10 more years, maybe more, you know how many billions and billions of euros are going to go down the drain?

Its time to settle this war once and for all and put an end to it, get it over with ASAP, and then start looking for our own interests when it comes to economy and start doing some rapid changes and solutions.

You are quite blind if you don't see that Europe is in big trouble if we don't do some big things soon, we have a whole lot of issues and problems that will get worse and worse in the next couple of decades, its now or never.

Sorry, but you sound like a young person who is more worried about his own pocket and future in the country of your residence.

You know what other people do when they are faced with unbearable living situations. They migrate.

How people from Middle East migrate because of horrible conditions and through ways and borders they have to cross in fear. You could just pack your stuff and move to any European country if you wished to. You won't face Frontex.

 

[Spitfire9]

Irish ex- a diplomat who worked as a diplomat for the UK in Ukraine claims that nearly 4,000 Russian fuel trucks were destroyed in the 4 days before being interviewed.

It is not surprising to me that Crimea is suffering from fuel shortage.

Is the 4,000 figure credible? Not entirely but if he is asking friends in Ukraine for data, it could be. His friends are not likely to simply pass on Ukrainian government propaganda.

I believe that no fuel is currently being offered for sale to civilians with ration cards. All is reserved for military and government use.

 

[MaciekRS]

Another good hit by Ukrainians (russians are saying Storm Shadows were used)

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2068988586779705805

 

[FiReFTW]

Sorry, but you sound like a young person who is more worried about his own pocket and future in the country of your residence.

You know what other people do when they are faced with unbearable living situations. They migrate.

How people from Middle East migrate because of horrible conditions and through ways and borders they have to cross in fear. You could just pack your stuff and move to any European country if you wished to. You won't face Frontex.

And what point exactly are you trying to make here? Of course I care about my own pocket and future lol, isn't that logical? I thought every somewhat smart and reasonable person worries about his own life and future, or do you not care about yourself?

 

[FiReFTW]

It’s the other way around. If there were people like me in high positions in Europe, we would see high economic growth, low regulations and booming investments in Europe, while Russia would have been defeated by now.

But unfortunately Europe is led by weak socialists who only care about preserving the welfare state at the expense of the long term prospects of the continent.

The only good thing they did lately was not abandoing Ukraine, and even that, they did it very slowly and with excessive fear and limitations. We’re four years in this war, and Europe is still not pumping out drones and missiles like it should have.

After four years since Russia invaded, Europe should have been producing upwards of one million mid and long range drones per year, to be able to saturate Russia with thousands of daily strikes, foricing it to capitulate. It is a disgrace that Ukraine outproduces the entire continent when it comes to drone production. You have a small country under constant bombardment producing more drones than a wealthy continent at peace.

If every medium and big European country produced jusy 50k long range drones per year, Russia would have been defeated by now.

And before you say that would be impossible, Ukraine produces around 70k long range drones per year right now, while being under constant attacks.

A country like Germany should be able to easily produce 200k.

You are completely deluded, so in your opinion Europe should massively produce military equipment and drones and spend billions and billions for that when the money is needed in many other areas, and then you say that you would solve Europe's problems with that and Europe would see high economic growth.... are you even listening to yourself?

But of course its easy to talk when you don't even live in Europe and couldn't care less about the people here.

 

[FiReFTW]

Russia's attack has damaged the world economically. Imagine Russian aggression had been successful and Russia had taken over Ukraine. Don't you think Putin would not be encouraged to plan to take over parts or all of other neighbouring countries to the west of Russia?

The situation has changed considerably in the last couple of years. Weapons supplied to Ukraine no longer come with the proviso that they cannot be used to attack Russia. Ukraine has built a weapons industry with which to attack Russia with drones and missiles. Those weapons are causing serious damage to Russia.

Russia has been slowly destroying itself economically and financially. You query Europe staying on the path it is on forever. To me that is just about inconceivable since Russia staying in one piece forever economically and financially is just about inconceivable.

Who is the stubborn one here? Putin has been stubbornly continuing to prosecute a war where the prospects of defeating Ukraine - prospects that held some credibility in 2022 - have long disappeared. All that is left to Russia is to continue inflicting damage on Ukraine - but receiving continuous severe damage to itself - until the money runs out.

So I hope that desperate, fixated, obsessed Putin carries on with his war until he has comprehensively devastated his country. IMO he foolishly annexed Kerson and Zaporitzia under Russian law and is now stuck with not being able to stop the war without leaving those 'parts of Russia' in enemy hands. IIRC he cannot do that in Russian law, so he's condemned himself to fighting to the bitter end.

What countries would Putin attack had he been successful in Ukraine? He would never attack any NATO countries, thats just madness and fear mongering, its beyond stupid and crazy.

You underestimate Putin, he will keep at it forever in this war, he can't sacrifice so many people and then just give up and leave, and yes its hurting Russia bad, but Europe is also hurting, I care about Europe I don't care about Russia, I want whats best for us and whats best for me, this war isn't it and needs to be stopped by all means possible.

The only thing you seem to not be capable of accepting is that the longer this war goes on the more its hurting YOU and US in Europe, or maybe you realize it but are just fine with that, in that case we are just of different opinions on this, I care about myself and Europe.

 

[Saithan]

What countries would Putin attack had he been successful in Ukraine? He would never attack any NATO countries, thats just madness and fear mongering, its beyond stupid and crazy.

You underestimate Putin, he will keep at it forever in this war, he can't sacrifice so many people and then just give up and leave, and yes its hurting Russia bad, but Europe is also hurting, I care about Europe I don't care about Russia, I want whats best for us and whats best for me, this war isn't it and needs to be stopped by all means possible.

The only thing you seem to not be capable of accepting is that the longer this war goes on the more its hurting YOU and US in Europe, or maybe you realize it but are just fine with that, in that case we are just of different opinions on this, I care about myself and Europe.

That's quite pathetic. You like most in Europe have no idea of what hurting really is. You can only project it to your financial situation, and whine about it.

If it's so unbearable then move away. Start life over in a new country. Would be a good experience for you. It would put things into a perspective.