Indonesia Casual Discussion Warkop Indonesia

[chibiyabi]

It appears as though our neighbor, the Philippines has Bongbong Marcos, THAT Marcos the dictator's son as their favorite Presidential candidate. Well, there are two main implications:

1. Democracy can be dumb sometimes, like that time when people voted Austrian Painter as Germany's leader. Now in the 21st century, people freely voted for the Filipino equivalent of Tommy Suharto as President.

2. It is a diplomatic win for China, though how much so may depend on many factors. Philippines' western-leaning military modernization plan might be halted a bit, but even more significant is the possibility of them being dragged further into China's sphere of influence.

tommy dah ga bisa, terpidana kasus pembunuhan

 

[R4duga]

It appears as though our neighbor, the Philippines has Bongbong Marcos, THAT Marcos the dictator's son as their favorite Presidential candidate. Well, there are two main implications:

1. Democracy can be dumb sometimes, like that time when people voted Austrian Painter as Germany's leader. Now in the 21st century, people freely voted for the Filipino equivalent of Tommy Suharto as President.

2. It is a diplomatic win for China, though how much so may depend on many factors. Philippines' western-leaning military modernization plan might be halted a bit, but even more significant is the possibility of them being dragged further into China's sphere of influence.

yeah i see most of the philippines defense page are on favor with leni robredo (except some, like RHK111) and always leaning into a biased news during their campaign event, quite a surprise marcos jr win this election.

 

[morningstar]

1. Democracy can be dumb sometimes, like that time when people voted Austrian Painter as Germany's leader. Now in the 21st century, people freely voted for the Filipino equivalent of Tommy Suharto as President.

Contents in favor BBM, whitewash his family and smearing his rivals, especially Robredo are flooding the Internet. Whoever the political consultant is, this kind of political campaign are booming in this world.

And it is also can be seen as how to destroy democracy, because instead of offering solution or unique approach to the problem, they just spreading populist narratives to the public (Usually used the narratives that pleasing the majority in demography). This is how to win in less political literate society, thanks to the Eastern part of Indonesia that Prabowo and his then islamists friends didn't won the last presidential elections.

 

[Lordimperator]

Indonesia kita juga ada pak menhan Prabowo sih yang ngebet banget pengen jadi presiden, dia kan mantu presiden Soeharto juga. Golongan elite Orba kelas atas itu, dan dia salah satu kandidat terkuat 2024

Setidaknya tidak dekat dengan PRC seperti BBM

thanks to the Eastern part of Indonesia that Prabowo's and his then islamists friends not won the last presidential elections.

Kira kira gerbong agamis nanti ngusung siapa ya?

 

[chibiyabi]

Contents in favor BBM, whitewash his family and smearing his rivals, especially Robredo are flooding the Internet. Whoever the political consultant is, this kind of political campaign are booming in this world.

And it is also can be seen as how to destroy democracy, because instead of offering solution or unique approach to the problem, they just spreading populist narratives to the public (Usually used the narratives that pleasing the majority in demography). This is how to win in less political literate society, thanks to the Eastern part of Indonesia that Prabowo's and his then islamists friends not won the last presidential elections.

WIT itu terlalu kecil untuk memenangkan jokowi, Jokowi itu menang karena NU tradisonalis di jateng dan jatim, ini islamist garis keras juga serta swing voters dengan slogan jokowi yes, PDIP no

 

[morningstar]

Kira kira gerbong agamis nanti ngusung siapa ya?

Gatau. Tapi orang-orang kanan jauh Islam disini itu seksi banget jumlahnya, harus tau juga itu. Walaupun kandidatnya aslinya gak se-kanan itu, aku bisa maklumin mereka slide ke kanan narasi yang dipake. Sumpah, aku gak nyalahin siapapun yang geser ke kanan agak jauh demi nyari suara.

 

[morningstar]

WIT itu terlalu kecil untuk memenangkan jokowi, Jokowi itu menang karena NU tradisonalis di jateng dan jatim, ini islamist garis keras juga serta swing voters dengan slogan jokowi yes, PDIP no

Iya juga. Jateng sama Jatim, ke flip gak PDIP lagi kemungkinan pake narasi buruh-buruh gitu, kalo pake narasi islam-islam kayaknya gak ngaruh.

 

[morningstar]

i see most of the philippines defense page are on favor with leni robredo

Kalo aku ngeliatnya massa Robredo itu sama kayak massa nya DPP Taiwan. Socially progressive, terus ke PRC lebih keras dari lawannya. Kuomintang Taiwan yang mana bendera ROC aja ada lambang partai itu, sekarang gak keras atau bahkan bener-bener ngerasa gak ada masalah sama PRC.

 

[trishna_amrta]

Gatau. Tapi orang-orang kanan jauh Islam disini itu seksi banget jumlahnya, harus tau juga itu. Walaupun kandidatnya aslinya gak se-kanan itu, aku bisa maklumin mereka slide ke kanan narasi yang dipake.

Sebenarnya konstituen nya mereka pun juga ga agamis2x banget. Hanya saja karna sudah muak dgn narasi pemerintahan sekarang dan kebijakan2x yg terlalu ke kiri kirian akhirnya mereka banting kanan.

Saya pribadi termasuk yg muak walaupun untungnya ga sampai banting kanan

 

[trishna_amrta]

Or untuk nyerang yg udah terlanjur mendarat di sini (skenario mari bung rebut kembali as usual)

Kalau itu kita butuhnya artillery (naval gun support) dan BMP-3F mas

 

[Lordimperator]

naval gun support

Ini apakah otmel 76 mm cukup, atau oerlu updgrade ke kaliber besar macam vulcano 127mm?

 

[Madokafc]

Kalau itu kita butuhnya artillery (naval gun support) dan BMP-3F mas

Me kinda thinking BMP3F with all of the unsealed storage munition is Jack a boom thin can

 

[morningstar]

Sebenarnya konstituen nya mereka pun juga ga agamis2x banget. Hanya saja karna sudah muak dgn narasi pemerintahan sekarang dan kebijakan2x yg terlalu ke kiri kirian akhirnya mereka banting kanan.

Saya pribadi termasuk yg muak walaupun untungnya ga sampai banting kanan

Kalo aku sekarang urusan ekonomi bener-bener pragmatis aja. Kebijakan ekonomi dulu aku pernah sampe kayak libertarian yang pemerintah gak boleh intervensi ke pasar atau ngasih social safety net, bener-bener pasar bebas gak ada aturan (kayak anarchist capitalist). Bahkan kalo libertarian yang lebih parah ngeliat mata uang fiat itu jelek karena dikontrol sama negara lewat bank central.

Tapi ngeliat lebih banyak kebijakan di negara-negara lain kayak flexicurity nya Nordic jadi lebih bisa nerima intervensi negara di ekonomi. Dulu baru ngeliat kata sosial aja udah mikir itu kebijakan ekonomi statist kayak USSR wkwk.

Gak semua kiri juga macem USSR. Helmut Schmidt, yang bantai geng Ensslin kiri ekstrem dia. Jens Stoltenberg, mantan PM Norway dari Partai Buruh.

Emang kata kiri itu rusak karena kebijakan ekonomi mereka di jaman Perang Dingin yang shitty, sampe-sampe CCP aja ngelepas kebijakan ekonomi yang mana alat produksi dikuasai rakyat (prakteknya BUMN sama cooperative/koperasi) dan bolehin swasta punya perusahaan jaman Deng Xiaoping, yang penting punya sumber permodalan.

Yang sekarang gak bisa aku terima itu entah dari spektrum kanan atau kiri yang terlalu jauh/ekstrem. Dua-duanya gak ada tendencies sama sekali ke demokrasi, yang ada mau menang sendiri semua.

 

[RadenSudirman]

Kalo aku sekarang urusan ekonomi bener-bener pragmatis aja. Kebijakan ekonomi dulu aku pernah sampe kayak libertarian yang pemerintah gak boleh intervensi ke pasar atau ngasih social safety net, bener-bener pasar bebas gak ada aturan (kayak anarchist capitalist). Bahkan kalo libertarian yang lebih parah ngeliat mata uang fiat itu jelek karena dikontrol sama negara lewat bank central.

Tapi ngeliat lebih banyak kebijakan di negara-negara lain kayak flexicurity nya Nordic jadi lebih bisa nerima intervensi negara di ekonomi. Dulu baru ngeliat kata sosial aja udah mikir itu kebijakan ekonomi statist kayak USSR wkwk.

Gak semua kiri juga macem USSR. Helmut Schmidt, yang bantai geng Ensslin kiri ekstrem dia. Jens Stoltenberg, mantan PM Norway dari Partai Buruh.

Emang kata kiri itu rusak karena kebijakan ekonomi mereka di jaman Perang Dingin yang shitty, sampe-sampe CCP aja ngelepas kebijakan ekonomi yang mana alat produksi dikuasai rakyat (prakteknya BUMN sama cooperative/koperasi) dan bolehin swasta punya perusahaan jaman Deng Xiaoping, yang penting punya sumber permodalan.

Yang sekarang gak bisa aku terima itu entah dari spektrum kanan atau kiri yang terlalu jauh/ekstrem. Dua-duanya gak ada tendencies sama sekali ke demokrasi, yang ada mau menang sendiri semua.

Btw are you Ice Flare?

 

[morningstar]

Btw are you Ice Flare?

That loud Komodo wkwk…. No. He still too afraid to take conclusion why our ancestors from molecular biology and Adam and Eve stories are different, or he is too conservative to me.

Hadits that human was so high before and getting shorter gradually also not fit with science at all wkwk. He must think about that also, so he can be more freely to speak his view and not snared by his belief

 

[chibiyabi]

Me kinda thinking BMP3F with all of the unsealed storage munition is Jack a boom thin can

what happen in UA thin can shouldn't an option for marine

 

[JATOSINT]

Kalau itu kita butuhnya artillery (naval gun support) dan BMP-3F mas

Perlu aset yang bisa long range/deep strike juga, no?

Exocet Block III juga bisa dipake coastal land attack

 

[morningstar]

Exocet Block III juga bisa dipake coastal land attack

Intercepted by enemy’s A2/AD. Need more than that, including electromagnetic domain capabilities to jammed the radar and else to stop their radar see and lock to the missile for interception. It’s gonna be long effort of training and deep pocket activities that we may can’t get the capabilities at short time.

Except our A2/AD are good at first before they come in. Instant way, asked US and Japan for us to get their defense umbrella.

 

[chibiyabi]

Intercepted by enemy’s A2/AD. Need more than that, including electromagnetic domain capabilities to jammed the radar and else to stop their radar see and lock to the missile for interception. It’s gonna be long effort of training and deep pocket activities that we may can’t get the capabilities at short time.

Except our A2/AD are good at first before they come in. Instant way, asked US and Japan for us to get their defense umbrella.

Mogami?

 

[morningstar]

Mogami?

I’m not talking about ship there wkwk more than that, institutionalized joint task force. They responsible for some of our defense, especially where we are not ready yet