Indonesia Casual Discussion Warkop Indonesia

[RadenSudirman]

Couldn't agree more,
Masalahnya buat memenuhin produksi dalam negeri aja masih keseok seok, jangankan untuk ekspor. Produk swasta pun juga dipandang sebelah mata. Inovasi yang dipuja puja hanya yg berasal dari kalangan "Negri"(ga jarang cuma bullshit).

Kupikir Indonesia perlu membenahi sistem logistik dan manajemen di bidang pertahanan :3

Mengenai Negeri vs Swasta

Ini dilema. Memang industri senjata swasta mestinya lebih didukung lagi karena jika mengandalkan BUMN saja, apalagi jika hanya perusahaan2 itu lagi, kapasitas produksi pasti gak akan bisa besar. Di sisi lain, doktrin orang2 pemerintah itu masih Negeri-sentris, apalagi di UUD dimandatkan bahwa industri strategis dipegang oleh negara, dan tau sendiri gimana negara bekerja. So bayangkan, dari pembuat kebijakan, dari industri hulu ke hilir, sampai ke user, semua dipegang birokrat yang sudah pasti lambat dan kaku pola kerjanya.

Tapi di sisi lain, jika kita terlalu full swasta, atau swasta dominan, baik di industri militer maupun sektor2 lainnya, itu juga tidak baik. Karena swasta orientasinya adalah profit, dan jika kepentingan profit terlalu dominan, implikasi ke negara akan buruk. Dalam kasus ekstrim tentunya ada Amerika dengan military-industrial complex, making profit out of war. Jika di Indonesia mungkin akan terjadi munculnya lobi-lobi swasta di pemerintahan, god knows what they're up to but we shouldn't let that happen.

Di sektor sipil swasta sudah sangat dominan dibanding negara, contoh yang sekarang banyak dibahas adalah mengenai pembangunan infrastruktur dan consumer goods. Kemarin2 saja sampai ada kasus mafia minyak goreng, tentunya ini terjadi karena memang orientasi profit swasta, tidak mau jual rugi walaupun masyarakat yang akhirnya dirugikan. Tapi karena lobi swasta yang sudah sangat kuat, negara jadi ndak berani untuk menindak mereka, mentok PNS pejabatnya yang ditangkep, sedangkan Big Biz tidak. Agaknya mengkhawatirkan jika mindset yang sama akan tertanam di sektor Hankam.

 

[schuimpjes]

Dalam kasus ekstrim tentunya ada Amerika dengan military-industrial complex, making profit out of war.

SAIC, Peraton and other companies works with US Intelligence: "Oh.. hi.. nice to meet you. About this, we are kind of government official and businessmen at the same time sometimes. Revolving door is so normal to protect the free world."

 

[Lordimperator]

perbanyak AT dan Manpad adalah

Kita ada rencana macam lisensi gitu kah? Order borongan?

 

[RadenSudirman]

This book is a quite an informative take on the Japanese invasion of the Dutch East Indies

Map of Japanese invasion route in Java:

Some points that interested me:

1. Shock effect on opposing forces from mobile firepower.
Tactically, the aggressive and mobile Japanese put the RNEI Army on the wrong track. Japanese air superiority was paralyzing to the NEI units. When aircraft approached, troops immediately sought cover and remained there for long periods of time. Against such an opponent, the NEI troops and in particular the Indonesian components showed insufficient willingness to fight. The RNEI Army faltered psychologically in terms of military capability.

2. Importance of Military Intelligence.

Combat intelligence was often lacking. As a result, the strength and direction of Japanese attacks were unknown. This made realistic counter-measures extremely difficult. The RNEI Army failed to demonstrate sufficient control when attacking.

3. Quality of military planning, command, and control determines victory or defeat. A rigid way of commanding has negative effects of causing confusion and lowering the capability of the troops.

Planning and coordination were moderate to poor. As a result, counter-attacks took place in a fragmented manner and with forces that were too weak. In the counter-attack of the 2nd Infantry Regiment and Teerink Group, the advance to contact was started according to the rules, i.e. when the attackers were within range of their artillery – c. 15km. As a result, troops jumped off kilometres ahead of the attack target and had to advance in battle formation for hours through tough terrain under tropical temperatures. The result was the loss of the element of surprise and exhaustion among the attacking troops – and all this in the face of enemy air superiority.

4. Good intelligence and planning equals effective military operation, failing both means failing the operation, and failing the war as a result. Hesitation to act will only worsen the situation.

Artillery was deployed in a hesitant and fragmented manner. Australian Major J.H. Brown had pointed out the shortcomings in an exercise in November 1941: ‘No coordinated fire plan had been prepared nor had any recce been made by battalion commanders … Three hours after daylight the two attacking battalions had moved forward about a mile and still well behind the front line were having breakfast.

5. Leadership quality is of utmost importance, bad commanders create a bad military. Both sufficient education and experience are needed to make a good commander.

The impression was that the attack suffered from lack of drive from above and would have been fatal in practice.’ Brown saw the main weakness ‘in the battalion and regimental commanders who lack practical experience’. Based on his findings, the Australian Director of Military Intelligence stated that ‘the army is well equipped. Their training is mainly defensive and their knowledge of offensive tactics is more theoretical than practical.

6. Orderly command structure ensure good command. Messing up with it will cause confusion and ineffective military command.

Command was sometimes chaotic. Division commanders had direct contact with company-level commanders and vice versa, bypassing the hierarchical command lines.

I personally like the last point the most, because in recent times someone tells me that having a company-level unit handling things is somehow good because battalion and above are too big of a unit. It is very interesting that Londo commanders also think the same way, that their division commanders directly commanded kompi. Well, we know the result of it.

 

[Umigami]

Jika pengen tahu gambaran seperti apa kru BMP 3 marinir beraksi di medan tempur sebenarnya.

Skip ke 12:12 untuk bagian Invasi.

 

[Umigami]

Masukin EU aja udah

 

[Lordimperator]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525661052276719616

 

[Nilgiri]

Well played Indonesia, but today was our moment

 

[Lordimperator]

Well played Indonesia, but today was our moment

View attachment 43933

Congrats

 

[trishna_amrta]

those funding is not panacea for the regional countries to face the bully like China or so on in the first place, but more to increasing US engagement among ASEAN, increasing their exposure and cooperation

Malah lebih insult lagi kalau seperti itu. Tidaklah pantas bilamana biaya operasional diplomasi & birokrasi diumumkan seperti itu. Kenapa ga sekalian biaya utk menjamu tamu negara diumumkan juga beserta menu makanannya.

Terlihat sekali Biden tdk punya staff ahli urusan Asia Tenggara jarena pengumyman biaya $150 million tsb jelas2x adalah diplomatic faux pas.
Tampaknya kebijakannya memang tdk peduli dgn kawasan Asia Tenggara

 

[trishna_amrta]

Couldn't agree more,
Masalahnya buat memenuhin produksi dalam negeri aja masih keseok seok, jangankan untuk ekspor. Produk swasta pun juga dipandang sebelah mata. Inovasi yang dipuja puja hanya yg berasal dari kalangan "Negri"(ga jarang cuma bullshit).

Kupikir Indonesia perlu membenahi sistem logistik dan manajemen di bidang pertahanan :3

Yang perlu dibenahi itu Organizational Culture nya dulu. Percuma walaupun secara organizational ditata kalau mentalitasnya masih gitu2x aja.

 

[Van Kravchenko]

The security guard need to be more strict and discipline, gladly they're alive.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524567382567841792

 

[Van Kravchenko]

Organizational Culture

Sesuatu yg sederhana tapi sulit dilakukan, bahkan setidaknya perlu 3x masa regenerasi sebelum sebuah kultur organisasi benar benar bisa di rombak.

Faktor pemicu pun haruslah kuat, seperti generasi yang punya greget untuk memperbaiki kultur, dan mampu buat ngeredam ikut campur pihak external, maupun hambatan internal.

Ya kalau dibilang telat sadar atau ga yg pasti Indonesia mah lambat banget dalam ngerespon sesuatu dinamika. Alhasil selalu gagap dan latah dalam menruh sikap.

 

[Madokafc]

Banyak yg menertawakan tentara Rusia ga kompeten, lalu ada TNI yg ga mau kalah.

there is a "culture" the current TNI chief trying to eradicated, that's why he is hell bent to increasing the engagement and exposure between Indonesian Armed Forces with first tier armed forces like the US, Australia and UK along with the likes of Singapore, Japan, South Korea and so on. The current generation of Indonesian Armed forces is product of education and exposure of late 1990's something era through 2000's decades, in which western military embargoes takes their toll highly on not only in operational readiness of Indonesian Armed Forces military hardware, but also on their cooperation in training, joint exercise and alson doctrine development there is big gap in it.

 

[Madokafc]

Semoga penggantinya nanti bisa meneruskan. Menurut mu calon panglima yg dari AL kemarin gimana? Kira-kira akan meneruskan atau punya mindset yg sama?

don't know, but my prefence is the current Air Force chief of staff instead

 

[Van Kravchenko]

Banyak yg menertawakan tentara Rusia ga kompeten, lalu ada TNI yg ga mau kalah.

This make me questioned the reality of combat effectiveness of TNI during sejoa operation.


Ghoss,, , ,
Did top brass litterally just dump out fresh recruit to die in Papua?

 

[schuimpjes]

don't know, but my prefence is the current Air Force chief of staff instead

Misal, Pak Fadjar naik jadi Panglima, yang gantiin dia kemungkinan menurutku ada 2, Samsul Rizal sama Tony Harjono. Samsul Rizal karena deket sama KSAU sekarang, Tony kabarnya istrinya itu ada hubungan keluarga sama Bu Iriana, akhirnya dapet jabatan yang nempel terus sama Presiden yang bisa bikin 2 orang itu Tony sama Presiden deket (jabatannya bukan ajudan, lupa aku). Kalo jaman Harto dulu, udah jabatan strategis banget jadi ajudan Presiden itu, kemungkinan diangkat jadi Panglima lebih tinggi karena deket.

Nah, mereka berdua itu masih Bintang 2 yang berarti kalo dibuat jadi KSAU harus dikasih jabatan Bintang 3 dulu, paling gak sementara cuma untuk sarat Bintang 3. Dankodiklatau selanjutnya yang menurutku jabatan yang bisa buat Bintang 3 karena kalo gak salah udah mau diganti karena yang jabat sekarang mau pensiun.

Take it with tons of salt guys

 

[Madokafc]

This make me questioned the reality of combat effectiveness of TNI during sejoa operation.


Ghoss,, , ,
Did top brass litterally just dump out fresh recruit to die in Papua?

Seroja they are fine actually, there is alot of veteran lead the fight there, including people who fought against PRRI Permesta, DI/TII, and communist insurgencies...

 

[Madokafc]

Misal, Pak Fadjar naik jadi Panglima, yang gantiin dia kemungkinan menurutku ada 2, Samsul Rizal sama Tony Harjono. Samsul Rizal karena deket sama KSAU sekarang, Tony kabarnya istrinya itu ada hubungan keluarga sama Bu Iriana, akhirnya dapet jabatan yang nempel terus sama Presiden yang bisa bikin 2 orang itu Tony sama Presiden deket (jabatannya bukan ajudan, lupa aku). Kalo jaman Harto dulu, udah jabatan strategis banget jadi ajudan Presiden itu, kemungkinan diangkat jadi Panglima lebih tinggi karena deket.

Nah, mereka berkuasa itu masih Bintang 2 yang berarti kalo dibuat jadi KSAU harus dikasih jabatan Bintang 3 dulu, paling gak sementara cuma untuk sarat Bintang 3. Dankodiklatau selanjutnya yang menurutku jabatan yang bisa buat Bintang 3 karena kalo gak salah udah mau diganti karena yang jabat sekarang mau pensiun.

Take it with tons of salt guys

nah the hint is current Pangkostrad, he is in law with our Prime Minister. Dudung is just like Andhika, he is already spent. Meanwhile current Pangkostrad is still have around four or five years more....

 

[Umigami]

nah the hint is current Pangkostrad, he is in law with our Prime Minister. Dudung is just like Andhika, he is already spent. Meanwhile current Pangkostrad is still have around four or five years more....

Is he as visionary as AP ?