Indonesia Casual Discussion Warkop Indonesia

[JATOSINT]

Indonesian Air Force has sizeable and growing C130 fleets, i am quite interested about the feasibility of Indonesia to acquired the US Made system Rapid Dragon (Lockheed Martin), as those system able to let our C130 fleets to acts as impromptu Bomber, those Rapid Dragon is able to launch not only JASSM but also JDAM ER and Hammer (in which still within Indonesia range to acquired). Stand off capability should be the current and future theme in modern warfare though

'ide' nya sudah ada

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1218022682777669634

 

[Umigami]

Indonesian Air Force has sizeable and growing C130 fleets, i am quite interested about the feasibility of Indonesia to acquired the US Made system Rapid Dragon (Lockheed Martin), as those system able to let our C130 fleets to acts as impromptu Bomber, those Rapid Dragon is able to launch not only JASSM but also JDAM ER and Hammer (in which still within Indonesia range to acquired). Stand off capability should be the current and future theme in modern warfare though

Do They even let us access such capability?

 

[Madokafc]

In one forum, i met a Singaporean (i think he is a legit one, well from his way of writing and Singlish). Made a tall claim if it Singapore facing those kind of Russian onslaught (for convenient of debate, Singapore island is happened near Russian mainland just like Johor and Singapore) just like what happened against Ukraine, Singapore can Made a roll against Russian easily. In which surely i Deny such laughable claims.

My number one reason, Singapore is too small, doesn't have large footprint, a single mistake would spell a Doom against such Tiny City State. Russian on other hand had much more larger firepower, large stock of munition, large number of Expendables manpower, and they can endure harsh treatment and harsh beating, no matter how much you beating them they still have large vitality unless you can provoked the risk of internal revolution they would not giving a shit at all about Costs and casualties.

And i don't think Singapore can endure long time siege just like what happened in Mariupol and other Cities like Kharkiv, the fall of Singapore back then should be a thing to be remembered.

Fighting against peer opponents such as Russia you need large industry capacity, large footprint, large territory for war maneuver and large base of population along with sufficient food production. Btw, for such reason Indonesia has capital to become a great power though.

 

[Madokafc]

Do They even let us access such capability?

Lockheed Martin and SAFRAN Made option with JDAM ER/HAMMER actually is to have country such as Indonesia as target market

 

[Lordimperator]

'ide' nya sudah ada

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1218022682777669634

Replaced the waterballs with Hammer ...

 

[Madokafc]

Musuhnya Iran mulai ngeluarin isi dompetnya

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1629867377956380672

 

[NEKO]

In one forum, i met a Singaporean (i think he is a legit one, well from his way of writing and Singlish). Made a tall claim if it Singapore facing those kind of Russian onslaught (for convenient of debate, Singapore island is happened near Russian mainland just like Johor and Singapore) just like what happened against Ukraine, Singapore can Made a roll against Russian easily. In which surely i Deny such laughable claims.

My number one reason, Singapore is too small, doesn't have large footprint, a single mistake would spell a Doom against such Tiny City State. Russian on other hand had much more larger firepower, large stock of munition, large number of Expendables manpower, and they can endure harsh treatment and harsh beating, no matter how much you beating them they still have large vitality unless you can provoked the risk of internal revolution they would not giving a shit at all about Costs and casualties.

And i don't think Singapore can endure long time siege just like what happened in Mariupol and other Cities like Kharkiv, the fall of Singapore back then should be a thing to be remembered.

Fighting against peer opponents such as Russia you need large industry capacity, large footprint, large territory for war maneuver and large base of population along with sufficient food production. Btw, for such reason Indonesia has capital to become a great power though.

Because they got inspired so much by Israel and think that they can be like Israel in the Six-day war.

 

[Lordimperator]

inspired so much by Israel

Apakah mereka punya jaringan intelejen sehandal Israel?

 

[NEKO]

In one forum, i met a Singaporean (i think he is a legit one, well from his way of writing and Singlish). Made a tall claim if it Singapore facing those kind of Russian onslaught (for convenient of debate, Singapore island is happened near Russian mainland just like Johor and Singapore) just like what happened against Ukraine, Singapore can Made a roll against Russian easily. In which surely i Deny such laughable claims.

My number one reason, Singapore is too small, doesn't have large footprint, a single mistake would spell a Doom against such Tiny City State. Russian on other hand had much more larger firepower, large stock of munition, large number of Expendables manpower, and they can endure harsh treatment and harsh beating, no matter how much you beating them they still have large vitality unless you can provoked the risk of internal revolution they would not giving a shit at all about Costs and casualties.

And i don't think Singapore can endure long time siege just like what happened in Mariupol and other Cities like Kharkiv, the fall of Singapore back then should be a thing to be remembered.

Fighting against peer opponents such as Russia you need large industry capacity, large footprint, large territory for war maneuver and large base of population along with sufficient food production. Btw, for such reason Indonesia has capital to become a great power though.

What "Russia" should do against Singapore in such hypothetical scenario is just to do pre-emptive strike and attack first and decimate Singapore, by spamming MLRS and artillery attack even if Singapore SAM have 100% accuracy it will still get overwhelmed and need to be reloaded. For example 1 RM-70 unit alone can launch 40 rockets, how many missile does 1 battery of SAMP/T and Spyder have?

Singapore have advanced and well equipped Air Force and SAM so attacking using fighter jet is not really a good option, MLRS is the nightmare for a tiny city state like Singapore. "Russia" need to parks tens of MLRS and aim it at Singapore and give last warning for negotiation before all hell breaks loose. If Singapore decide to strike first then many "Russia" MLRS will be destroyed tho.

 

[Madokafc]

What "Russia" should do against Singapore in such hypothetical scenario is just to do pre-emptive strike and attack first and decimate Singapore, by spamming MLRS and artillery attack even if Singapore SAM have 100% accuracy it will still get overwhelmed and need to be reloaded. For example 1 RM-70 unit alone can launch 40 rockets, how many missile does 1 battery of SAMP/T and Spyder have?

Singapore have advanced and well equipped Air Force and SAM so attacking using fighter jet is not really a good option, MLRS is the nightmare for a tiny city state like Singapore. "Russia" need to parks tens of MLRS and aim it at Singapore and give last warning for negotiation before all hell breaks loose. If Singapore decide to strike first then many "Russia" MLRS will be destroyed tho.

Well if Singapore strike first, strategically they would loose, as no one would trying to put sympathy for a country who shoot in anger and starting the war first, don't expect massive aid in munition, volunteer forces and other necessary logistic like fuel, foods, medicine and other stuff. Meanwhile enemies like Russian is very good at absorbing damage and keep zerging the enemies without regard to the damage they have received.

Just like i said, they would be doomed to pick up a real fight against a much bigger countries (which have larger population and natural resources and industrial footprint even for the likes of Malaysia and Indonesia let alone serious opponents like Russian or China). Their arm procurement is more acts as insurance and guarantee.

Btw Russian spamming more than 30 Cruise missile or Ballistic missile a day along with almost twenty thousand high caliber munition like 125 mm tank gun rounds, 152 mm artillery rounds, 120 mm mortar rounds, 122 mm artillery rockets, 227 mm artillery rockets and 300 mm artillery rockets per day during the height of fighting in Donestk oblast for almost at sixty days of fighting along with average between 8000 to 15,000 rounds in "normal" days. And we are not talking about Abu Shaheed/Lancet, and other Air Force assets.

 

[Nilgiri]

In one forum, i met a Singaporean (i think he is a legit one, well from his way of writing and Singlish). Made a tall claim if it Singapore facing those kind of Russian onslaught (for convenient of debate, Singapore island is happened near Russian mainland just like Johor and Singapore) just like what happened against Ukraine, Singapore can Made a roll against Russian easily. In which surely i Deny such laughable claims.

My number one reason, Singapore is too small, doesn't have large footprint, a single mistake would spell a Doom against such Tiny City State. Russian on other hand had much more larger firepower, large stock of munition, large number of Expendables manpower, and they can endure harsh treatment and harsh beating, no matter how much you beating them they still have large vitality unless you can provoked the risk of internal revolution they would not giving a shit at all about Costs and casualties.

And i don't think Singapore can endure long time siege just like what happened in Mariupol and other Cities like Kharkiv, the fall of Singapore back then should be a thing to be remembered.

Fighting against peer opponents such as Russia you need large industry capacity, large footprint, large territory for war maneuver and large base of population along with sufficient food production. Btw, for such reason Indonesia has capital to become a great power though.

Yeah he doesn't know what he's talking about at all.

There is the matter of land (strategic depth) first of all and the resources of time, positioning and maneuvering that are tied to it in critical ways.

Singapore would be in deep trouble if a large force has made it to Johor (or worse been able to set up uncontested there like was the case w.r.t RUS build up in belarus and donbass etc) .

There can be potential wargame analysis done if say the force is sufficiently far enough away at the start (say Indochina somewhere), allowing Singapore to attack it all the way down the kra isthmus and malayan peninsula etc....to properly leverage its airforce capability and so on. i.e some kind of modern day hypothetical w.r.t Japanese operations in the area WW2.

Then it depends on details you fill in regarding that. But if they have reached Johor its game over for Singapore, it simply has run out of room at that point. Not even going to go into what it would have to had stockpiled for the earlier phase war of this force (gathering and making its way down).

Even among much larger armies, the issue of sensitive areas where there is not much land (to hold, provision and move defenders) crops up a lot.

Take for example there being just one main artery connecting the Kashmir valley to rest of India (Punjab plain) by way of the Pak land border there and then mountains on the other side sandwiching it.

In the 65 war this was the entire (well planned and quite well executed) strategy Pakistan adopted knowing this (that India basically was intrinsically weak and vulnerable there).... the so called akhnoor dagger held to the chicken neck. Simply there was not much India could station and defend there in such narrow piece of flat land....it could only be a holding action and Pakistan threw everything they could manage at it (figuring that India would not expand the war elsewhere).

Problem for them was India seeing no other option, did what they didn't expect and expanded the war (to the Punjab plain and the major Pakistani cities that are all there) where this scarcity of land (and time, positioning and maneuvering) was not a factor anymore and it could bring much more of its forces to bear to counter-aggress below the Pakistani thrust.

But land is very crucial resource in war in the end.

 

[NEKO]

Btw Russian spamming more than 30 Cruise missile or Ballistic missile a day along with almost twenty thousand high caliber munition like 125 mm tank gun rounds, 152 mm artillery rounds, 120 mm mortar rounds, 122 mm artillery rockets, 227 mm artillery rockets and 300 mm artillery rockets per day during the height of fighting in Donestk oblast for almost at sixty days of fighting along with average between 8000 to 15,000 rounds in "normal" days.

This is enough to decimate whole Singaporean land many times over.

 

[chibiyabi]

those

In one forum, i met a Singaporean (i think he is a legit one, well from his way of writing and Singlish). Made a tall claim if it Singapore facing those kind of Russian onslaught (for convenient of debate, Singapore island is happened near Russian mainland just like Johor and Singapore) just like what happened against Ukraine, Singapore can Made a roll against Russian easily. In which surely i Deny such laughable claims.

My number one reason, Singapore is too small, doesn't have large footprint, a single mistake would spell a Doom against such Tiny City State. Russian on other hand had much more larger firepower, large stock of munition, large number of Expendables manpower, and they can endure harsh treatment and harsh beating, no matter how much you beating them they still have large vitality unless you can provoked the risk of internal revolution they would not giving a shit at all about Costs and casualties.

And i don't think Singapore can endure long time siege just like what happened in Mariupol and other Cities like Kharkiv, the fall of Singapore back then should be a thing to be remembered.

Fighting against peer opponents such as Russia you need large industry capacity, large footprint, large territory for war maneuver and large base of population along with sufficient food production. Btw, for such reason Indonesia has capital to become a great power though.

singlish people should learn with what japannese did back than in WW II. they do not have suffcient resource, in any field, human, RM, Industrial capability, and teritory, your backyard is your front line.

 

[Madokafc]

Yeah he doesn't know what he's talking about at all.

There is the matter of land (strategic depth) first of all and the resources of time, positioning and maneuvering that are tied to it in critical ways.

Singapore would be in deep trouble if a large force has made it to Johor (or worse been able to set up uncontested there like was the case w.r.t RUS build up in belarus and donbass etc) .

There can be potential wargame analysis done if say the force is sufficiently far enough away at the start (say Indochina somewhere), allowing Singapore to attack it all the way down the kra isthmus and malayan peninsula etc....to properly leverage its airforce capability and so on. i.e some kind of modern day hypothetical w.r.t Japanese operations in the area WW2.

Then it depends on details you fill in regarding that. But if they have reached Johor its game over for Singapore, it simply has run out of room at that point. Not even going to go into what it would have to had stockpiled for the earlier phase war of this force (gathering and making its way down).

Even among much larger armies, the issue of sensitive areas where there is not much land (to hold, provision and move defenders) crops up a lot.

Take for example there being just one main artery connecting the Kashmir valley to rest of India (Punjab plain) by way of the Pak land border there and then mountains on the other side sandwiching it.

In the 65 war this was the entire (well planned and quite well executed) strategy Pakistan adopted knowing this (that India basically was intrinsically weak and vulnerable there).... the so called akhnoor dagger held to the chicken neck. Simply there was not much India could station and defend there in such narrow piece of flat land....it could only be a holding action and Pakistan threw everything they could manage at it (figuring that India would not expand the war elsewhere).

Problem for them was India seeing no other option, did what they didn't expect and expanded the war (to the Punjab plain and the major Pakistani cities that are all there) where this scarcity of land (and time, positioning and maneuvering) was not a factor anymore and it could bring much more of its forces to bear to counter-aggress below the Pakistani thrust.

But land is very crucial resource in war in the end.

Well, in one of tactical game floor conducted between Indonesian, US, Australian, JSDF and Singapore before, we all acknowledge if we can't hold back the initial onslaught attack of Chinese Armed Forces if they reenacted Imperial Japan moves back then (you should knowing the name of the event).

Without additional reinforcement from other it can't be done at all without incurring massive losses especially in Naval and air assets.

This is enough to decimate whole Singaporean land many times over.

Russian land Forces with all of their jokes and comedy is still a behemoth and Formidable opponents for a country like Singapore in which has far less population and limited resources. Thank God they don't have such neighbor, it was Indonesia and Malaysia their neighbor

 

[RadenSudirman]

In one forum, i met a Singaporean (i think he is a legit one, well from his way of writing and Singlish). Made a tall claim if it Singapore facing those kind of Russian onslaught (for convenient of debate, Singapore island is happened near Russian mainland just like Johor and Singapore) just like what happened against Ukraine, Singapore can Made a roll against Russian easily. In which surely i Deny such laughable claims.

My number one reason, Singapore is too small, doesn't have large footprint, a single mistake would spell a Doom against such Tiny City State. Russian on other hand had much more larger firepower, large stock of munition, large number of Expendables manpower, and they can endure harsh treatment and harsh beating, no matter how much you beating them they still have large vitality unless you can provoked the risk of internal revolution they would not giving a shit at all about Costs and casualties.

And i don't think Singapore can endure long time siege just like what happened in Mariupol and other Cities like Kharkiv, the fall of Singapore back then should be a thing to be remembered.

Fighting against peer opponents such as Russia you need large industry capacity, large footprint, large territory for war maneuver and large base of population along with sufficient food production. Btw, for such reason Indonesia has capital to become a great power though.

Not the first time a Singaporean make laughable claim

Fall of Singapore during WW2 was not anywhere near the principle of 'mass', which dictates more guns equal win , or any kind of strategy envisioned by Singaporean nerds. No, what happened was Singapore fall because the bule commander got totally fooled and intimidated by the Japanese. He surrendered even though his forces was larger, and has most advantage on land except tank. And it was British army who commanded the forces in Malaya, an experienced imperial army. Let alone bunch of conscripted nerds who are fed too much repetitive propaganda, whose army has never saw combat.

The Japanese didn't even use artillery in high intensity back then, imagine Singapore now. They don't think of the possibility that their city can get smoked? and that when it happen they won't go in absolute panic trying to rescue their citizens? where the heck Singaporeans even supposed to evacuate to in case of a siege?

Singaporeans always say 'we will win easily', this is a coping mechanism, because if they think otherwise then it is same as admitting their city-state's existence is fragile. Of course they envision all scenario will be ideal condition for Singapore with a dumb static enemy, because else, there is no possibility to score a win. Some foreigners and even Indonesians, praise Singapore as a role model, but heck I didn't recall Singapore ever fight a real war. The same Indonesians criticize Indonesian performance in Seroja, but heck at least Indonesia has experience and a lot of materials to learn and work with. Singapore can only use theoretical assumptions and LARPing as Israel, even though the key to Israel success is their experience.

The German Army back then has thousands of tanks, yet when Operation Barbarossa was resisted heavily by the Soviets, much of their divisions are damaged to the point of being not 'offensive capable' (meaning full strength). The well-trained, advanced, and very experienced German Army admits that even with 1 million soldiers they still cannot ensure a victory. Yet Singapore claims they can win in any scenario easily? or even hope to mount an offensive (amphibious even)? What a joke.

 

[Lordimperator]

Not the first time a Singaporean make laughable claim

Dan pasti bawa bawa FPDA

 

[RadenSudirman]

There can be potential wargame analysis done if say the force is sufficiently far enough away at the start (say Indochina somewhere), allowing Singapore to attack it all the way down the kra isthmus and malayan peninsula etc....to properly leverage its airforce capability and so on. i.e some kind of modern day hypothetical w.r.t Japanese operations in the area WW2.

Then it depends on details you fill in regarding that. But if they have reached Johor its game over for Singapore, it simply has run out of room at that point. Not even going to go into what it would have to had stockpiled for the earlier phase war of this force (gathering and making its way down).

Heck, the British Army did in fact resisted starting all the way up to Kra Isthmus. Doesn't really help them that much, no difference, they keep retreating to Singapore. The British has decent Navy back then, based in Singapore, yet they failed to intercept Japanese landing, unable to beat back Japanese Navy, and HMS Prince of Wales and Repulse were sunk.

Singapore best chance is to dig in and prepare for a long siege. 'Decisive military operation' is no more than a fantasy, Russia tried to do such a thing, by mounting assault to Kyiv and other citiies, with a force much larger than anything Singapore can muster, yet still failed horribly.

So they have two options:

1. Their current wishful thinking of 'preemptive strike', whatever that BS is. Which requires no mistake in planning, and execution. Because anything less than that will allow the opposing army to retain its strength and cohesion. Once failed, mounting counterattack will be next to impossible as they will lose momentum. Russia tried to do this early in the war, but faulty planning and execution made them failed to achieve their objective, and lose momentum, unable to assault Kyiv again.

2. Dig in and entrench Singapore. This is the more sound strategy, as they can have a more certainty building defenses in their own small territory, instead of guesswork in a 'fog of war' (unless they seriously believe they know everything and has no disadvantage). They can methodically prepare to resist any attempt to assault Singapore, and can more easily prepare their forces and order of battle in their own ground. This is why Ukraine was able to resist for so long, Kyiv, Mariupol, and Bakhmut are some of the battles where defensive strategy allow Ukraine to resist Russia effectively, with a sound management of time, space, and resources.

Choosing to do a field battle for an inexperienced army is not a good option, let alone expecting an easy win.

 

[NEKO]

Some foreigners and even Indonesians, praise Singapore as a role model

There is something that we can learn from them, like maintenance etc.
For sure we have more flight hours and real operations on real condition etc. on wide variety of conditions because of our wide territory from jungle and highland and mountainous Papua.
While Singapore have less of such operation thus smaller accident, but I still think they still have better depohar and better technicians.

 

[Madokafc]

There is something that we can learn from them, like maintenance etc.
For sure we have more flight hours and real operations on real condition etc. on wide variety of conditions because of our wide territory from jungle and highland and mountainous Papua.
While Singapore have less of such operation thus smaller accident, but I still think they still have better depohar and better technicians.

Then they goes all AI based Army, smart model platform and other hi tech jargon which is sound very nice and tall. But don't they know the fog of war is real, and real time battlefield is the worst bitch you can get with all of surprise elements. You can go smart in first week of war, but the rest of the fight you Will fight stupidly if you want to survive. The battle hardened Ukraine soldier even can get overwhelmed sometimes with such stupid, fool, ruthless but sometimes effective Tactics of human waves attack combined with artillery creeping barrage despite their superior Tactics, inteligen gathering method and even at some points firepower (just look at Siege of Mariupol).

The US has more humane approach in this side as they know it was always human who fight the war, Made the decision and Brunt the casualties. Experience can't be replaced afterall.

 

[RadenSudirman]

There is something that we can learn from them, like maintenance etc.
For sure we have more flight hours and real operations on real condition etc. on wide variety of conditions because of our wide territory from jungle and highland and mountainous Papua.
While Singapore have less of such operation thus smaller accident, but I still think they still have better depohar and better technicians.

So you're saying Singapore is exemplary in term of technical work? well of course, they are, why not as a people who manage large quantity of international transportation.

How about 'combat'? Singaporeans never boasted about their technical maintenance, they always boasted that they can 'easily win strategic level combat operation', which they never did, let alone win.

If we want somebody to praise, we have US military that operate bases globally, of course they are even better at depohar than the Singaporeans. But when talking about real conduct of war, forget about it. You can have people who train basketball with fancy facilities, but if they never have experience in real basketball competition, then people cannot say "they are the role model in basketball", let alone "they will win any competition"