Indonesia Casual Discussion Warkop Indonesia

[Umigami]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1617818765860933632

 

[Madokafc]

 

[RadenSudirman]

Just knew about the term “nuclear sponge”. This term is specifically very US term that refers to the 5 (or more even) US states east of West Coast states, are used as the sponge in case of global nuclear warfare. So US government put their nuclear silos there to attract their adversaries to hit that low population density states.

Using silos as bait. If the adversaries just hit the cities, risk for them to be hit back by the US using ICBM from that states. So they must hit that sponge states, don’t know how much to make silos there inoperable.

If I have 5000 nuclear missiles, I will hit anywhere, not just stupid obvious bait in the middle of the desert.

But nuclear war itself is stupid, so neither side would launch anything to the other one, rendering the dilemma and thus the strategy, irrelevant.

 

[schuimpjes]

If I have 5000 nuclear missiles, I will hit anywhere, not just stupid obvious bait in the middle of the desert.

That’s why now this nuclear sponge thing is troublesome for now. If the nuclear owned by US adversaries maybe still in the number of early Cold War, 50s maybe, then it is make sense, to deplete the number of enemies nuclear weapons by bait them to hit US land leg nuclear silos, in order to prevent US response by nuclear weapons. But when the number is thousands, then that is tricky, bait nuclear missiles have to be thousands too then.

But nuclear war itself is stupid, so neither side would launch anything to the other one, rendering the dilemma and thus the strategy, irrelevant.

Imagine Russia (or Soviet Union then) without it. The power not balance then, US would always win in case of war, eventhough US just gonna get rubbles and smithereens. Assume the enemy is US.

At least the power balance is how to make major world power not at war and peace. Fragile peace of course, only depends on balance of power if we used the logic I wrote above. Make decision of war towards each other means suicide.

Edit: US start this nuclear weapon thing. Then Soviet got it, then China, Then Israel if Samson Option is real, India, Pakistan, allegedly Apartheid South Africa from Israel etc etc. Realistically, this is something that would never be put back to the box again. All wants to look strong at least, in order to make their countries not attacked.

 

[schuimpjes]

Attrition warfare is another thing lol. Usual recent asymmetric warfare, not balance, but sometimes the weaker could get their objectives while the strong not.

 

[RadenSudirman]

Imagine Russia (or Soviet Union then) without it

We will have more conventional war to watch and study, instead of stupid decades-long useless "quantitative" study on hypothetical nuclear war that didn't happen and will never happen.

The US spends billions on economist to study nuclear strategy using mathematical bullshit because Americans are obsessed with making things more complicated and "quantitative", because they think math and economics is the best way to solve anything, including strategy. This backfired in Vietnam, because McNamara relies on these mathematical BS, while ignoring strategy formulation by senior military experts, because he (even American policymakers now) thinks objective math > subjective thinking.

Now you know why Berkeley Mafia is a thing, American-trained economist thinks they know everything and can solve everything, even now you have SM meddling with other ministries' business.

Sometimes Arts (including Art of War and humanities in general) is better than Science. Of course science is objective and rational, but humans are not always objective nor rational, so it is foolish to use science only to try understanding human nature, including in the field of defense and military affairs, Arts has to be mastered too.

Attrition warfare is another thing lol. Usual recent asymmetric warfare, not balance, but sometimes the weaker could get their objectives while the strong not.

"Attrition warfare" could range from months to years, even decades. So its stupid if anyone say "Guerilla warfare" as first option, because congratulation you will spend the next 20 years hiding in jungle and mountains while the other guy will rob your house and steal your sister.

Asymmetric warfare is the war of the weak and the stupid, monkey war. Weak because not strong enough to do battles directly, and stupid by engaging in this type of war to begin with, leaving your country ruined after years of protracted occupation, no matter you win or lose this is a stupid option.

So the solution is build your military to be strong enough to do battles, and your leaders to be smart enough to win it quickly and decisively.

 

[R4duga]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1617818765860933632

nubika member detained citizen that were turned violent after eating indomie.

 

[schuimpjes]

Sometimes Arts (including Art of War and humanities in general) is better than Science. Of course science is objective and rational, but humans are not always objective nor rational, so it is foolish to use science only to try understanding human nature, including in the field of defense and military affairs, Arts has to be mastered too.

Instinct and feeling wkwk. Ancient but helping

"Attrition warfare" could range from months to years, even decades. So its stupid if anyone say "Guerilla warfare" as first option, because congratulation you will spend the next 20 years hiding in jungle and mountains while the other guy will rob your house and steal your sister.

That’s why all build their powers, to prevent war happens to their countries, to make attrition warfare not even a thing to experience. Possibility always exist, but at least they tried.

 

[Lordimperator]

indomie

Indomie goreng pake kuah

 

[schuimpjes]

So the solution is build your military to be strong enough to do battles, and your leaders to be smart enough to win it quickly and decisively.

The only example i can think of; Invasion of Panama, Grenada and Gulf War, and maybe also NATO in Balkan; Bosnia, Kosovo.

All of that were offensive btw, swift defensive I don’t know. Stalingrad not even swift, long battle plus big reinforcement at the end. Battle of Kobane also same, air supports from US and allies play big role.

Whatever how creative the people are, swift win in defensive scenario, especially without assistance or reinforcement is not happening, gonna be another long war or battle if we see what already happened. CMIIW

Btw, Panama was where US ally (like usual Cold War era, a third world’s dictator) became a butthurt for US itself lol

 

[RadenSudirman]

Instinct and feeling wkwk. Ancient but helping

Even "instinct and feeling" needs training. Artists use "instinct and feeling" to create their works, and they are able to do it by training. Tools and maths are just that tools. It is the human that matters in creating values.

It is not "helping", it is the thing, it's the the technologies that "helps" the human, not the other way around.

Americans are foolish by thinking human is the weakness of the machine, rather than machine being the strength of the human. I disagree with them on this point, no matter how much I am influenced by Americans, I still maintain that this doctrine is wrong.

Whatever how creative the people are, swift win in defensive scenario, especially without assistance or reinforcement is not happening, gonna be another long war or battle if we see what already happened. CMIIW

Even less if you use monkey war AKA gorilla warfare bullshit. If conventional is not doing it swiftly, then how could gorilla can? Guerilla warfare entire purpose is to prolong the war, weaken the enemy slowly, until you are strong enough to counterattack, and they are weak enough to be defeated.

If conventional is slow, then guerilla is even slower. While the final stage of guerilla warfare is conventional war, every theorist say the same thing, so who the heck gonna choose guerilla when conventional is available in the beginning?

Let's say "swift" does not mean "very fast", but "to win decisively and with the use of time and resource as efficient as possible". Ukraine can force stalemate against Russia in mere months, that's already pretty good standard considering the enemy faced, you can use that as an example.

Some battles are very long, but that's still an efficient use of resource, even if they don't use time efficiently. And they are doing it conventional, but with guerilla logic Kyiv should be Russian by now.

 

[schuimpjes]

Invasion of Panama, Grenada

Interesting piece about mercenaries, amateurs and professionals, during the height of Cold War in Latin America, especially Central America. Someone talked about Suriname, and I’m not gonna shocked if some went to Nicaragua, El Savador etc.

 

[schuimpjes]

Even "instinct and feeling" needs training. Artists use "instinct and feeling" to create their works, and they are able to do it by training. Tools and maths are just that tools. It is the human that matters in creating values.

So creativity then. Right now we are in the so called Information Age, some called next as Imagination Age. Like Scientific Age created Industrial Age, Industrial Age made Information Age possible, Imagination Age made possible by the Information Age. From Information, we can exploit it into something, Imagination, which include creativity are widespread, as Information now. It maybe went so far from the original conversation, but it’s fun lol

 

[RadenSudirman]

So creativity then. Right now we are in the so called Information Age, some called next as Imagination Age. Like Scientific Age created Industrial Age, Industrial Age made Information Age possible, Imagination Age made possible by the Information Age. From Information, we can exploit it into something, Imagination, which include creativity are widespread, as Information now. It maybe went so far from the original conversation, but it’s fun lol

Creativity and imagination exist in every age, it is just the style, how they are expressed and governed through conventions and institutions differs from time to time.

For example, in the past armies show up on a field, and do set-piece battle for 1 day to 1 week, now battles are more fluid and longer in duration, with bigger scale. Strategy and tactics employed also differs accordingly, the dynamics of the logistics also.

For insight, the speed of an army in 100 BC and 1800 AD are the same; that is the speed of marching of men and horse, but we know war in 100 BC and 1800 are very different type of wars, this is where various other things has to be taken into consideration. In Battle of Pyramids, and Battle of Abukir, Napoleon faced a bigger Egyptian army with far more cavalry, tens of thousands of them, some also equipped with guns too. So why the French won and not the Egyptian? Both of them has infantry with guns, and cavalry units equipped with swords, then what make the French different? The human of course, the quality of the general and the troops were superior.

All books that I read on the theory of war, all of them agreed that there is no single answer, or method, that can be considered the best, or even the only way that war should be taught and fought. So what they put in the books are insights, to train the mind of the human to be creative and able to recognize fundamental truth in war, and from there, able to be creative in solving unique problems that they face.

So yes, you can say human creativity is the key, including in war. Yes it is chaotic and uncertain, but it is what it is. Some tries to use mathematical calculation and machines to make war predictable, yet as recent cases proves, some things are not governed with these rules. Why Taliban won? this is unexplainable if one uses "objective" measurement only. It's clear that human insight is always needed and reliance on machines is not always the best way to solve a problem.

 

[schuimpjes]

this is unexplainable if one uses "objective" measurement only.

The unknown portion is place for God if believe it lol. Whatever what Deities, versions or teachings people believe in or not believe even, keep in mind, orang itu beda-beda. They know what they’re doing.

 

[schuimpjes]

TikTok - Make Your Day

 

[schuimpjes]

Allen Pope’s Civil Air Transport successor, Air America.

Opium? Relax, Kuomintang’s General Li Mi and allegedly Vang Pao casually sold it for money, for war needs money. And again, allegedly Air America used to transport the opium too. More crazy story about opium was Nguyen Cao Ky, Vice President and Chief of the Air Force of South Vietnam, used RVNAF Hercules to transport opium if i remember correctly, just too much abuse of power there lol

Goods from “Golden Triangle”

 

[Nilgiri]

So creativity then. Right now we are in the so called Information Age, some called next as Imagination Age. Like Scientific Age created Industrial Age, Industrial Age made Information Age possible, Imagination Age made possible by the Information Age. From Information, we can exploit it into something, Imagination, which include creativity are widespread, as Information now. It maybe went so far from the original conversation, but it’s fun lol

No we are in the age of aquarius... get your facts straight son....

 

[schuimpjes]

Skandinavian and their entertainment blood lol. MLTR, ABBA, M2M, and also Take on Me song. Legends from there.

 

[schuimpjes]

Little bit of explanation from an amateur (me) btw lol. Air flows form high pressure to low pressure. The higher the altitude, the lower the pressure that the cockpit has higher pressure than its surrounding.

Same as balloon, air pressure inside of balloon is higher than its surrounding. What happened if you make small hole on the balloon, the air move out of balloon immediately or kaboom

Just knew that fighter cockpit is not as pressurized as commercial airplane cabin. So the pressure inside the fighter has small different with the air pressure outside, almost like not pressurized, so (slightly) same as pressure outside the cockpit. In case of get shot in the high altitude, the whole cockpit not rapidly or explosively decompressed (ED).

Edit: depends on the size of the bullet hole or whatever hole rupanya, not automatically small hole then ED happened.