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Ravager

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Well, since the beginning Israel was the one who proclaimed independence.
While egypt and now-Jordania even never had any idea if in the future there will be peoples from their ex- colonies that want to establish their own nation.
On the final night of the British withdrawal, the Jewish Agency for Israel declared the establishment of the State of Israel in accordance with the proposed UN plan.
This plan is about 2 nations in 1 land.
The Arab High Committee did not declare the situation on its own and instead, along with Transjordania, Egypt, and other members of the Arab League at that time, began the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. During the war, Israel gained territory that belong to wgypt and transjordania.
So, who wants to be blamed now❓

So in other word you are justifying all of these power playing of " might makes it right " and violent disposition of lands/property upon the civilians . ( That's nclude of crimeas and georgian , Khasmir and Tibet occupation !! But most of all our blatant invasion on ET !! )
OK ... I can respect that ... Atleast you are honest . But , just remember .... For every action there would always be a reaction .
 

BBOn

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might makes it right
No, why you think like that? Which of my word that can be translated like that?

Ok, lets make it more.
Who is the first that establish their own nation? Israel or Palestine people?
 
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BBOn

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then whos followed those steps after Israel already controlled the entire territory?
 

BBOn

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and then who criticizes for their very narrow territory.
 

schuimpjes

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land grabbing
What do you mean by land grabbing here? Israeli settlements in West Bank or what?. If that is about the Israeli settlements in West Bank, yes, that is Illegal based on International Law, Israel wrong on this matter.

But if we talking to the zealots, International Law lose against Torah Law. Zealots are all same.
 

Ravager

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No, why you think like that? Which of my word that can be translated as that?
In simple word, who is the first establish their nation? Israel or Palestine people?

Because that is the essence of all this bullshits !! Power playing at it's finest !
6 day war was iniated by the israelis and their reasoning was the exact copy on what the NK's pretext of SK invasion !! And look what were happening to the NK side ?? Backed by the UN resolution the western power are turning their tables for the SK's side . Did the US treat the arab the same ??
You can pretend otherwise but at the end of the day without US backing and vetoing power all of this bullshit wasn't supposed to be extended until forever !!
67 border were allready the midle ground consession to all the party involved . Everybody get something in return while prolonging conflict could only lead to genocide and massacre . And when the US are stretched too thin who will they sacrificed ??
 

Ravager

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What do you mean by land grabbing here? Israeli settlements in West Bank or what?. If that is about the Israeli settlements in West Bank, yes, that is Illegal based on International Law, Israel wrong on this matter.
Are you testing me or what ?? Go read the Isreal - palestinian conflict in unedited version before try to make some comment about these conflict !! And while at it read all of those UN resolution started from 1966 and how many were observed and abided by the both side !!


Gee.... I'm wasting my breath and time in here ..
 

schuimpjes

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Are you testing me or what ?? Go read the Isreal - palestinian conflict in unedited version before try to make some comment about these conflict !! And while at it read all of those UN resolution started from 1966 and how many were observed and abided by the both side !!


Gee.... I'm wasting my breath and time in here ..
Just talk about that then, like the whole things on your brain. I'll give you like don't worry wkwk.
 

BBOn

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Because that is the essence of all this bullshits !! Power playing at it's finest !
6 day war was iniated by the israelis and their reasoning was the exact copy on what the NK's pretext of SK invasion !! And look what were happening to the NK side ?? Backed by the UN resolution the western power are turning their tables for the SK's side . Did the US treat the arab the same ??
You can pretend otherwise but at the end of the day without US backing and vetoing power all of this bullshit wasn't supposed to be extended until forever !!
67 border were allready the midle ground consession to all the party involved . Everybody get something in return while prolonging conflict could only lead to genocide and massacre . And when the US are stretched too thin who will they sacrificed ??
You forget who initiated the 1948 arab-israeli war. Thats before 6 days wars occurred.

Well than, there nothing I can say about that. I am not israel supporters anyway.
 

Ravager

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A word of warning !

Palestina - Isreal conflicts are far too heavy to be discussed in such casual topic discussion without sincerity . I said my piece and i don't want to spend my time without some constructive exchanges in between .
So carry on ...i've said my piece allready .
 

Ravager

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You forget who initiated the 1948 arab-israeli war. Thats before 6 days wars occurred.

Well than, there nothing I can say about that. I am not israel supporters anyway.

That is why our gov only insist to take 1967 border as a starting poin for a meaningfull and honest peace initiative Discussion !! Everybody get some and none the wiser ... And yet some people just couldn't be satisfied with what they got .
 

BBOn

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Well, there is nothing we need to discuss then. I am either not crazy enough to join Palestine conflict thread after reading several comments that showing me how unbalanced the conversation is. I dont want my self get gangbanged by several commentator that used tanda seru more than 1😑 toward me.
Ok, let just close this conversation than. Peace🙏
 

schuimpjes

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That is why our gov only insist to take 1967 border as a starting poin for a meaningfull and honest peace initiative Discussion !! Everybody get some and none the wiser ... And yet some people just couldn't be satisfied with what they got .
That's why I said this
What do you mean by land grabbing here? Israeli settlements in West Bank or what?. If that is about the Israeli settlements in West Bank, yes, that is Illegal based on International Law, Israel wrong on this matter.

But if we talking to the zealots, International Law lose against Torah Law. Zealots are all same.
I don't know which version of border that you want actually, like rolling change every comments. What border that you want us all here to zeroing at?
 

Ravager

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That's why I said this

I don't know which version of border that you want actually, like rolling change every comments. What border that you want us all here to zeroing at?
This is my least reply on this thread . Just looj for a 1967 map borders on and compared that to the present map disposition of Israel you'll get on what kind of clusterfuck situation was happening on the ground which lead to this hatred perpetuity .
 

BBOn

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Oo come on. Lets stop the conversation guys and watch this instead.
 

schuimpjes

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This is my least reply on this thread . Just looj for a 1967 map borders on and compared that to the present map disposition of Israel you'll get on what kind of clusterfuck situation was happening on the ground which lead to this hatred perpetuity .
Then our concerns are same here. What you expect from people that think they are living thousands of years ago?.

About US, Evangelicals and AIPAC are loaded with money, they can lobby people in Congress (Republican are their friends). While Democrats are stand up for Palestine, even though I hate the guys; AOC, Rashida Tlaib are who I remember. They are too left for me, not my personal favorite.
 

Perkosya_QT

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Ever heard the word " land grabbing " before ?? There is nothing normal in the Israel-Palestinian relationship . They always stay in the warring state status ...even with these temporary cease fire !! Tnink of Nagorno-Karabakh , North-South korea on the stereoid !! Do you even understand that ?? Everybody itching for a fight and guess what ?? Who's promoting the land grabbing process to tick and lit the fuse during the lul of staus-quo ?? Say what you will on image portaying sophistry but the crimes and violence was comitted never in the sama scales in intensity ! Or better yet try to google deeper on why world mainstream media reacts only after the rockets start flying from the palestinian side ?? Never before ?? Even for the words so called " precission strike " and covert ops .
If you are so sure about Israel magnamity then explain to us on why the US always blocking and vetoing whatever the rest of the world trying to put thing forward . Be it fact finding initiatives or even a binding resolution so this shits couldn't go on forever . Unless you were thinking the rest of Diplomatic/political world are blinds and naive as you were ... Then there is nothing we could argue anymore here . We are simply talking on a different wavelength and reality .

Sigh ....


Do you know that all of the land that Israel grabbed - except Sinai & southern Lebanon - are the land under the "British Mandate on Palestine" where the UN's Partition Plan as a solution for the distribution of the ex British Mandate land which gave some area for "Arab State" were rejected by Arab nations, then Arab waged war attacking Israel in 1948 and 1976?

Since Arabs rejected the UN Partition Plan, then there was no more ground for Arab to claim the territory except "WAR" which means: the winner take it all. And unfortunately for them the war which waged by Arabs in 1948 and 1967 - with intention to grab all Palestine region (ex British Mandate) - were won by Israel. So Arabs intention to get all Palestine region failed, and Israel grabbed all the region including gaza strip (which was ex British Mandate, that was later on illegally captured by Egypt) and West Bank (ex British Mandate, that was later on illegaly captured by Jordan).

Israel has returned Sinai to Egypt and Southern Lebanon to Lebanon, with compensation of "Peace Agreement" where both countries acknowledge the existence and independence of Israel. It is fair enough, isn't it?

Israel has given the Gaza strip to Egypt/Arab for Palestinian State; isn't it a good intention?

Why should Israel returned West Bank to Jordan? since it should not belong to Jordan legally ? When Israel grab west bank, it was occupied by Jordan illegally.
And why Israel should give all of West Bank to Palestine State? the enemy that never want to acknowledge and has peace with Israel?

Why Israel has to return it to UN, since UN Partition Plan that should be the legal ground (if accepted by both party) had been invalid because rejected by Arab nations?

Israel was the winner over the aggression of Arab nations in 1948 and 1967 war, then logically according to the "Arab's rule (when they tried to attack Israel in order to grab all Palestine region), Israel deserve and should take them all as the winner.

Reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli-occupied_territories

You are right, there is nothing normal in Israel-Palestine relationship, because there is no peace agreement yet; that is because Palestine determination to wage war against Israel. Hamas always portray that it is Israel who hate peace, but in fact Israel desire to construct peace with all Arab nations including Palestine, but they always reject because their desire is to get rid Israel from map.

UN resolution regarding Palestine doesn't mean that UN justify Palestine/Arab claims, UN resolution is regarding the agreement of the UN members regarding the peace/solution way out, it could be viewed as harmful for Israel intention or US politic thats why US vetoed.
 
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Madokafc

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Buat yang diskusinya terlalu panas
189060328_3027170594177412_8150400072293876524_n.jpg
 

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