India Indian Coffee House

[Kaptaan]

I dont get what sports has to do with relegion , relegion is personal thing .
Nadeem is promising lad , he can do wonders with proper training and what diff his relegion will make if he is muslim or non muslim .

I don't think you understood my point. These Olympics are about nation states and nationalism competing. Which is why each country is eagerly yearning for their sports people. Religion weakens nationalism. You said to me why don't all the nationalists help people like Nadim. What I was saying is nationalism has very weak base in Pakistan.

 

[crixus]

I don't think you understood my point. These Olympics are about nation states and nationalism competing. Which is why each country is eagerly yearning for their sports people. Religion weakens nationalism. You said to me why don't all the nationalists help people like Nadim. What I was saying is nationalism has very weak base in Pakistan.

Got your point

really wish Nadeem will get some good sponsors and he will rise and shine in future

 

[TR_123456]

I dont get what sports has to do with relegion , relegion is personal thing .
Nadeem is promising lad , he can do wonders with proper training and what diff his relegion will make if he is muslim or non muslim .

In some countries everything is about religion,even sports.

 

[TR_123456]

the overseas Pakistanis show so much nationalism in these forums

You mean ''religionism''?

 

[Kaptaan]

Got your point

really wish Nadeem will get some good sponsors and he will rise and shine in future

Sorry for deviating from the thread but think about this. India could easily invest in Hindu nationalism and it would about work because most Hindus live in India. There is a strong identification of India with Hinduism. But what if your country was Christian and you just invested all your identity around Christianity. The issue then would be your citizens would be Christian first and Indian after. Then they would begin identifying withh 70 other Christian countries.

This is the joke that they have invested in Pakistan for 70 years.

 

[Jackdaws]

Man the state he belongs to celebrates wrestlers more then cricketers and Neeraj will be an example which every parent in rural Haryan will give to motivate the children .

I just want to add one more thing this is first time when Indian govt interacted with players directly be it Prime Minister or Sports ministers

We won first wrestling individual medal in 2008 ( in recent past) and after that we are getting medals in wrestling since 2008 Olympics .

Cricket is popular in urban centres while wrestling dominates rural arena

Lol. Please don't give Modi and his band of merry clowns any credit.

India’s German javelin coach Uwe Hohn slams Olympics preparation

The 58-year-old German, who is the only man to throw the javelin over 100 metres and the coach behind Indian star Neeraj Chopra's rise, said training for the Olympics was unplanned and diet not fit for elite athletes.

indianexpress.com

The only other guy to win an individual gold - Abhinav Bindra is from a multi-millionaire family who funded himself and had a shooting range in his house. Sania Mirza had a court in her house. Rajvardhan Rathore was funded by the Indian Army.

CWG games scamster Kalmadi was running one of the federations. Almost all the federations are run like person fiefdoms.

 

[Jackdaws]

Sorry for deviating from the thread but think about this. India could easily invest in Hindu nationalism and it would about work because most Hindus live in India. There is a strong identification of India with Hinduism. But what if your country was Christian and you just invested all your identity around Christianity. The issue then would be your citizens would be Christian first and Indian after. Then they would begin identifying withh 70 other Christian countries.

This is the joke that they have invested in Pakistan for 70 years.

Unfortunately the buffoon Modi is trying to promote this Hindu chauvinism mostly because he hates Nehru and the Nehruvian idea of an inclusive India. It's a matter of time before it misfires. Either he will burn or he will burn India.

 

[crixus]

You mean ''religionism''?

I mean they are ready to wipe of India from the face of world , show it in as bad light as possible so may be i was under wrong impression but it sounds nationalism but now its sounds more like superior muslim wants to wipe off non muslims .

Got your point

 

[TR_123456]

Unfortunately the buffoon Modi is trying to promote this Hindu chauvinism mostly because he hates Nehru and the Nehruvian idea of an inclusive India. It's a matter of time before it misfires. Either he will burn or he will burn India.

Yes,Hindu chauvinism is not what the world knows when talking about India.
Thats on Modi.

 

[crixus]

Lol. Please don't give Modi and his band of merry clowns any credit.

India’s German javelin coach Uwe Hohn slams Olympics preparation

The 58-year-old German, who is the only man to throw the javelin over 100 metres and the coach behind Indian star Neeraj Chopra's rise, said training for the Olympics was unplanned and diet not fit for elite athletes.

indianexpress.com

The only other guy to win an individual gold - Abhinav Bindra is from a multi-millionaire family who funded himself and had a shooting range in his house. Sania Mirza had a court in her house. Rajvardhan Rathore was funded by the Indian Army.

CWG games scamster Kalmadi was running one of the federations. Almost all the federations are run like person fiefdoms.

In 2010 common wealth games sports men and sportswomen from Harayan got almost 22 medals out of 101 medals and that gave real boost to rural sports culture . If you see Sushil Kumar 2008 medal and Vijender Singh's bronze medal in boxing , they literally won due to local administration's help .

We have people like Pulela Gopichand who are single handed promoting badminton in India , I agree to an extent that Abhinav bindra and Sania Mirza are like elites but we have example who did good with out affluent background .

22 medals at the Commonwealth Games: What makes Haryana India’s sports nursery | Off the field News - Times of India

Off the field News: Haryana would be eighth on the 2018 CWG medal tally if it were a separate country! So what exactly is the reason behind the this medal haul by a singl

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

 

[Zapper]

Sad that his success will be overshadowed by Cricket.

Honestly feel sorry for Indian athletes.

In Turkey the same problem its always football, football and fcking football again. Dont get me wrong I love both sports just dont like how a nation just focuses on one sport while ignoring the rest.

Atleast football is a better sport than cricket and is competitively played by several countries across all continents. No wonder china has invested in football, building world class facilities, identifying and training children from a very young age and bringing in coaches from top football countries.

Cricket is a dying sport...if not for India and to some extent the other South Asian countries, it'd be long gone. People from our North Eastern and Southern states are really good at football. Only if GoI is able to build some facilities and bring in some coaches from Latin American countries who are relatively cheap over their European counterparts, we could definitely make a mark

 

[Zapper]

Guys...Don't turn this into another Indo-pak Hindu-Muslim thread please

 

[crixus]

Yes,Hindu chauvinism is not what the world knows when talking about India.
Thats on Modi.

Hindu is very broad word , its meaning changes from state to state and from village to village . There is no defenition of good hindu and bad hindu .
A hindu from Tamil Nadu is totally different in customs from Hindu from Kashnir .

Hindu chuvanism is just a media creation , you can be atheist in Hinduism . I can give full credit to India muslims for making this relegious bonding between non-muslims of India .

 

[Jackdaws]

In 2010 common wealth games sports men and sportswomen from Harayan got almost 22 medals out of 101 medals and that gave real boost to rural sports culture . If you see Sushil Kumar 2008 medal and Vijender Singh's bronze medal in boxing , they literally won due to local administration's help .

We have people like Pulela Gopichand who are single handed promoting badminton in India , I agree to an extent that Abhinav bindra and Sania Mirza are like elites but we have example who did good with out affluent background .

22 medals at the Commonwealth Games: What makes Haryana India’s sports nursery | Off the field News - Times of India

Off the field News: Haryana would be eighth on the 2018 CWG medal tally if it were a separate country! So what exactly is the reason behind the this medal haul by a singl

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

Friend, you have any idea of how badly Gopichand was treated? He won the All England Championship. At one point, when he filled in some requisition for shuttle cocks for practice, he was accused of stealing and selling shuttle cocks. I am sure there are some state govts and district level support for sports. Haryana for wrestling, Orissa for hockey etc. But almost all national federations are run by thugs. Old school politicians who are deeply entrenched to siphon off money. The biggest cash cow is of course cricket - from Sharad Pawar to Amit Shah's son - why are all the top politicians and / or relatives someone involved in cricket?

 

[crixus]

Sorry for deviating from the thread but think about this. India could easily invest in Hindu nationalism and it would about work because most Hindus live in India. There is a strong identification of India with Hinduism. But what if your country was Christian and you just invested all your identity around Christianity. The issue then would be your citizens would be Christian first and Indian after. Then they would begin identifying withh 70 other Christian countries.

This is the joke that they have invested in Pakistan for 70 years.

Man I really want to understand this , Bangladesh has no such problem .
Majority called themselves as Bengali Muslims and Bengali non muslims , same goes with Indonesia , they have no shame in accepting their past before accepting Islam .

It seems Pakistan is the only muslim country dealing with this problem . Hindus live is pretty good numbers in fiji , mauritus , Guyana and Nepal but never heard any such problems there . As a relegious grp Hindus are in majority in Marutius and Nepal other then India
Religion is personal and nationhood has nothing to do with religion . seems like I am too dumb to understand it

 

[crixus]

Friend, you have any idea of how badly Gopichand was treated? He won the All England Championship. At one point, when he filled in some requisition for shuttle cocks for practice, he was accused of stealing and selling shuttle cocks. I am sure there are some state govts and district level support for sports. Haryana for wrestling, Orissa for hockey etc. But almost all national federations are run by thugs. Old school politicians who are deeply entrenched to siphon off money. The biggest cash cow is of course cricket - from Sharad Pawar to Amit Shah's son - why are all the top politicians and / or relatives someone involved in cricket?

Heard similar stories about PT Usha and Anju bobby george . I undersatnd completely the gist of your message

 

[Jackdaws]

Man I really want to understand this , Bangladesh has no such problem .
Majority called themselves as Bengali Muslims and Bengali non muslims , same goes with Indonesia , they have no shame in accepting their past before accepting Islam .

It seems Pakistan is the only muslim country dealing with this problem . Hindus live is pretty good numbers in fiji , mauritus , Guyana and Nepal but never heard any such problems there . As a relegious grp Hindus are in majority in Marutius and Nepal other then India
Religion is personal and nationhood has nothing to do with religion . seems like I am too dumb to understand it

The larger and more diverse a country, the harder it is to forge a national identity. Linguistic commonality certainly helps. Even in Europe, Basques have fought for a separate country, UK had Brexit for EU, Scotland had its vote, Quebec also voted sometime in the 1990s I think. Bangladesh has forged its national identity around a language and Bengali culture but it is largely heterogenous.

That's why it is important to give an incredible amount of credit to Nehru for forging a national identity by being inclusive. Gandhi knew it was only an idealist who could do it. There was a genuine chance in the first 15 years of independence of India that it would disintegrate. There were language riots in the South over Hindi imposition which is still a touchy topic. Today if a Colonel Babu from Telangana is prepared to lay his life down in Ladakh, it is quite an achievement in itself.

 

[Nilgiri]

Sad that his success will be overshadowed by Cricket.

Honestly feel sorry for Indian athletes.

In Turkey the same problem its always football, football and fcking football again. Dont get me wrong I love both sports just dont like how a nation just focuses on one sport while ignoring the rest.

It used to be more the case before....its changing now...slowly, but slow is better than nothing.

Take just wrestling for example.

I was looking at India in formative time I grew up in.....and they would send like a cpl of guys and come back with zilch. They got next to no coverage on anything, whatever their efforts were. Little to no star or staying power to take forward past their local environs at best.

It is far cry now post-Dangal. A good 6 or so are sent and they come back with some medals regularly now....and they build up their process in other competitions and the domestic league etc.

In fact we were unlucky not to get a cpl more golds here in wrestling this time....bajrang had a recent knee injury and ravi recently dropped lot of weight to meet criteria for the weight class (that affected his fitness in the final to have chance against that monster+quick dagestani russian....who was excellent to watch). Both could have been golds instead of silver and bronze.

Anyway, In the end it is about capturing enough imagination and ethos of the larger country.

Cricket did so for number of reasons which will be long conversation of its own.....but for population this size and diverse it cannot sustainably occupy that mantle to the degree it once enjoyed. In fact Cricket itself is changing drastically in its representation from across the board, it is turning less elitist than it once was.

Wrestling, Badminton and other sports are moving into this space more and more.I see good things for field hockey moving forward now that the 40 year total parched period (at olympics) is over.

We need to better and keep at improving the leagues generating the interest for these sports....and more will come with time to take even more space that cricket holds now.

It will be harder to do with things like athletics, shooting, swimming etc (which need far more state support from beginning to end of ppl career), as the roster for these is much more top-down in meets for competitions. i.e you literally need large (but infrequent) games to attract interest compared to league-friendly sports.

That is where the massive statist support in other countries like US and PRC has kicked in (for very long time now) and produce reliable results now downstream.

 

[Nilgiri]

Never use internet as pulse of what goes on real life. It gives you a distorted picture. I can say with almost 99% certitude that Pakistani people have one of the weakest nationalisms in the world. The emphasis on religion has just created a vague notion of Muslim identity. If Nadeem could have rendered his quest as Muslim versus Kaffirs he might have got flood of support and money.

Regardless these humble folk (rising by their own effort and hardwork solely) prove the sparks and embers are there, ready to turn into fire.

Pakistan has to find way to take these embers to generate fire....rather than throw them to the wind and see if they stay lit.

This ember nurturing was extreme neglected process in India too for longest time (and still has huge entrenchment to overcome), so I know what is being confronted in Pakistan's case even more.

Maybe Pak Fauj and overseas expatriates can play big role here (for this steady nurture environment which need dedication for span of 10+ years to get started)....rather than rely on pakistan civvy govt sports board and civvy govt support (and corruption + drama there) etc.

These sons of soil like Nadeem speak at deeper level to what true nationalism is, if you read their story, struggle against odds and raw perseverance. They do lot more with the few cards they got dealt than the ones that had all the cards given to them, and just fritter and blabber it away.

It is why true nationalism in end actually reaches and strikes true nationalism veins in other countries like nothing else can (even if countries have whatever deep grievance and divide between them).

We recognise that stuff at deeper and subconscious level than the fake-blah stuff.

When your life is full of doing (often by the raw circumstance alone for survival) , rather than complaining, whining and whatever other elitist buffer time allows....you tend to be best your nation has.

Bridging these folks to real opportunity is the only answer to our region's deep set problems.

 

[Nilgiri]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1424267051783184390

@Philip the Arab