TR Air Defence Programs

[Huelague]

I think firtina will be 1.5-2.5

Around the half then.

 

[Balamir]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1435199512373567489

In June 2018, Defence Minister Nurettin CANİKLİ shared the 70-90km range and air-breathing target capability information for the HUSAR-U. In the CGI images shared in the press, the HİSAR-U Missile drew attention with its stepped (booster attached) structure.

 

[what]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1435199512373567489

Please add a short summary or translation in English.

 

[Siper>MMU]

Yesterday I heard that MAR-D radar can guide semi-active radar guided missiles with its digital beamforming capability. And that's why they want to use MAR-D on Barbaros Class, it would allow multiple engagements without needing separete illumination radars. There isn't any information about it in PDFs or product catalogues. Is it true ? @TheInsider @Anmdt @Cabatli_53

 

[Bogeyman]

İsmail Demir second system S-400 for reception, "All interviews and agreement with Russia were made over 2 systems. Common production, technology was interviewed. A specified distance has been taken. Description of Russia is indicative of the end of the study."

İkinci sistem S-400'ün ortak üretimi, teknoloji konularında ilerleme var

SSB Başkanı Prof. Dr. İsmail Demir, İkinci sistem S-400 Hava Savunma Füze Sistemi (HSFS) hakkında önemli açıklamalarda bulundu

www.defenceturk.net

 

[Abdelaziz]

İsmail Demir second system S-400 for reception, "All interviews and agreement with Russia were made over 2 systems. Common production, technology was interviewed. A specified distance has been taken. Description of Russia is indicative of the end of the study."

İkinci sistem S-400'ün ortak üretimi, teknoloji konularında ilerleme var

SSB Başkanı Prof. Dr. İsmail Demir, İkinci sistem S-400 Hava Savunma Füze Sistemi (HSFS) hakkında önemli açıklamalarda bulundu

www.defenceturk.net

I think they aim to compensate the air superiority that greek will gain on the short and intermediate term with rafael and vipers by improve the air defence umbrella with s400,siper,hisars, and other systems until tfx enter the service .. it need a lot of work to build highly capable air defence network

 

[Elaser]

until tfx enter the service

No, until F-16 Ozgur with AESA radar and Gokhan BVR missile enters service...

 

[Abdelaziz]

No, until F-16 Ozgur with AESA radar and Gokhan BVR missile enters service...

Gokhan is long term project ..dont expect it before 2025-2026 ... Also f16 upgrade programe will require at least 4-5 years ..these things take time .. short term solutions should be considered .. i mean before 2025

 

[Elaser]

Gokhan is long term project ..dont expect it before 2025-2026 ... Also f16 upgrade programe will require at least 4-5 years ..these things take time .. short term solutions should be considered .. i mean before 2025

And TF-X will not enter service before 2029...

 

[Abdelaziz]

And TF-X will not enter service before 2029...

Yes of course ..first one likely 2030 .. so .the available solutions is to improve the air defence systems / improve radars and EW / upgrade f16s

 

[Steel]

Yesterday I heard that MAR-D radar can guide semi-active radar guided missiles with its digital beamforming capability. And that's why they want to use MAR-D on Barbaros Class, it would allow multiple engagements without needing separete illumination radars. There isn't any information about it in PDFs or product catalogues. Is it true ? @TheInsider @Anmdt @Cabatli_53

This was discussed in the savtera forum. But I think it was decided it can't illuminate a missile but can prompt gökdeniz. By the way the reason can be to use aesa radar, to use an x band radar, to utilize more rotational speed (which actually reduces the time interval spent on the illumination of missile by fcr), to be more protected against jamming ...

 

[TheInsider]

Yesterday I heard that MAR-D radar can guide semi-active radar guided missiles with its digital beamforming capability. And that's why they want to use MAR-D on Barbaros Class, it would allow multiple engagements without needing separete illumination radars. There isn't any information about it in PDFs or product catalogues. Is it true ? @TheInsider @Anmdt @Cabatli_53

It might be but we can't know it for sure. Mar-D is an X band AESA(basically like a fighter radar) radar. It can certainly be used to illuminate a target for a semi-active RF-guided missile if Aselsan wants it or TN demands it. I doubt adding the capability to illuminate a target to MAR-D and calling it Mar-D block II is a very hard thing for Aselsan at this stage. Genesys Advent can certainly take advantage of such a sensor if a move like this is planned. IMO it will be an excellent move and add a big capability and a new dimension to the upgrade package. There is a possibility but is there such a thing? Who knows?

 

[chngr]

The system presented by İsmail Demir as the S400 equivalent domestic missile will probably be a system with exoatmospheric interception capability against ballistic missiles and capable of reaching altitudes of around 150-200km. In parallel to these developments, a giant early warning ballistic missile detection radar system called YIR, which will have thousands of km ranges was scheduled as next target after EIRS become operational. As EIRS was developed to be the main early warning radar of Siper family, I think YIR will be the main radar of the S400 equivalent domestic missiles.

S-400 does not have exoatmospheric interception capability.

I think it would be primarily air defence system for againt air breathing targets...Not missile defence system..

İsmail Demir's talk about ''domestic S-400'' is answer for TRT reporter's question ''S-400 ayarında bir savunma sistemini ne zaman yapabiliriz?''

I think it would be more like equivalent SM-6 missile...And most likely Siper=Sm-2 BIIIC....Siper+Booster=SM-6

 

[Anmdt]

Yesterday I heard that MAR-D radar can guide semi-active radar guided missiles with its digital beamforming capability. And that's why they want to use MAR-D on Barbaros Class, it would allow multiple engagements without needing separete illumination radars. There isn't any information about it in PDFs or product catalogues. Is it true ? @TheInsider @Anmdt @Cabatli_53

Theoretically it can do, it would be a software upgrade on the radar side,and an addition on the CMS side. Practically i am not sure if it will have any benefits, it is a radar mainly considered for FACs and OPVs at the moment and there are others for an actual APAR guidance (CAFRAD, a liter variant, X-DAR)
But i don't think there is such a capability as of now, they might disable its continuous rotation and make it staggered, then can use it for uninterrupted APAR guidance at a sector (although i am unsure about the range it can illuminate or communicate with the missile), but then the ship will lack an X band radar for the inner circle of the radar layer and rely on the S band for detection of other threats.

There are already 2 Akrep CWI on the Barbaros, and we know Navy won't go for the cheap but the effective one, ie. a fixed face APAR that can truly illuminate 360 degrees uninterrupted.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

S-400 does not have exoatmospheric interception capability.

I think it would be primarily air defence system for againt air breathing targets...Not missile defence system..

İsmail Demir's talk about ''domestic S-400'' is answer for TRT reporter's question ''S-400 ayarında bir savunma sistemini ne zaman yapabiliriz?''

I think it would be more like equivalent SM-6 missile...And most likely Siper=Sm-2 BIIIC....Siper+Booster=SM-6

When he say S-400 equivalent, i suppose the mission profiles are not compared. I believe that Turkey will follow the NATO strategy. Therefore, instead of a huge air defense system that can only hit air-breathing targets up to 400km range and limited missile defense capability, I believe a missile defence system which will have advanced ballistic missile defence capability and that can work together with Siper air defense family are developed based on Siper experience. While Siper cover the altitudes up to 30-35km, This new system will expand the protection umbrella up to 100-150km in altitude. The "Long Range High Altitude" missile which was once called GUMS and later stated to have being developed locally will be the missile emphasized as "S400 counterpart" However unlike the S400 mission profile, I think that this missile, with its dual mode seeker and DACS-controlled KV load, will perform both air defense duty at longer ranges and missile defense in an exo-atmospheric environment when necessary like THAAD. This is my prediction. We will wait and see.

 

[TheInsider]

S-400 does not have exoatmospheric interception capability.

I think it would be primarily air defence system for againt air breathing targets...Not missile defence system..

İsmail Demir's talk about ''domestic S-400'' is answer for TRT reporter's question ''S-400 ayarında bir savunma sistemini ne zaman yapabiliriz?''

I think it would be more like equivalent SM-6 missile...And most likely Siper=Sm-2 BIIIC....Siper+Booster=SM-6

Siper=SM-2 Block IVA(cancelled)

 

[Lonewolf]

Siper=SM-2 Block IVA(cancelled)

It would be great when many long range sam arrive in market .

Currently it's just patriot , thaad (for ballastic missile ) , aster 30 , hq 9 , s 400 and family .

Development i see potential in are xrsam (india ) , siper (turkey ) and anything new korean or japanese develop .

 

[Turko]

S-400 does not have exoatmospheric interception capability.

Yes, it does but not export variant.

Here is the 40N6 missile which hits ballistic targets (with 12.5 mach speed)at 185km altitude.

400km range

They export just 40n6e missiles. Nonetheless its Radars and sensors are capable of engaging.

Another interesting chart about S400 system. Vertical line is altitude , horizontal is range.
Pay attention the chart is also considering earth is round.

İ don't know hot it is possible but they claim 40H6E which also we have can engage surface upto400 km.

So 40H6E missile can engage an aircraft which flies at very altitude from 400km.??!

 

[Manomed]

I have a question to experienced members, Can a country buy various labelled air defense systems from various countries and make them work as one system ? And if yes what they should use to organise the work of the systems together

It would be very hard to do and money consuming

 

[chngr]

Such comparisons are usually made on the basis of ranges. When he say S-400 equivalent, i suppose the ranges are compared, not the mission profile. I believe that Turkey will follow the NATO strategy. Therefore, instead of a huge air defense system that can only hit air-breathing targets up to 400km range and limited missile defense capability, I believe a missile defence system which will have advanced ballistic missile defence capability and that can work together with Siper air defense family are developed based on Siper experience. While Siper cover the altitudes up to 30-35km, This new system will expand the protection umbrella up to 100-150km in altitude. The "Long Range High Altitude" missile which was once called GUMS and later stated to have being developed locally will be the missile emphasized as "S400 counterpart" However unlike the S400 mission profile, I think that this missile, with its dual mode seeker and DACS-controlled KV load, will perform both air defense duty at longer ranges and missile defense in an exo-atmospheric environment when necessary like THAAD. This is my prediction. We will wait and see.

NATO strategy is not suit for us...Our threat perception and strategy different.

We are need more and longer range air defence system especially against air breathing targets.

Your suggested missile would very very expensive for air defence.

We can do both missile but they would be different missiles...Like SM-3 and SM-6.

Even the USA, which absolutely dominates air superiority with its unrivaled fighter planes and aircraft carriers....is need SM-6 like missile