India Missiles and Guided Munitions

[Lonewolf]

If you size this motor, you will find the problem. Have to take into account where you want to place the heaviest stuff found on ship in the free body moment diagram.

You can get away with it somewhat more on a submarine, as the whole thing submerges and you can size/place the ballast tanks to compensate (somewhat) if there is benefit to placing something big and chunky extremely on one end (and you move around other heavy stuff as well to mitigate)

....but a surface ship only has the planar sea (which it is only partially submerged in) for reaction force. So keeping heavy things as near as possible the centroid is best (for best ship layout design envelope and also turning and response needs). Less heavy things (sensors, payloads, basic structure etc) are better for extremities.

This gets a lot worse in aviation discipline as you can imagine, where there is no steady reaction force provider other than the lift (only) generated by the motion itself.

Yup but dual motor package is actually a bit better and lighter but in comparison to shaft , it's definitely heavy .

 

[Nilgiri]

Yup but dual motor package is actually a bit better and lighter but in comparison to shaft , it's definitely heavy .

Yes but I am saying you also have to consider the distance from centre of mass.

In other axis, for an aircraft carrier, an irregular shaped runway already imposes huge design constraints on the ships innards placement and ballast tank penalty needed (to balance the whole thing).

Not from the mass/weight itself, but the distances involved of those masses w.r.t the centre of mass.

You want to avoid putting anything heavy far away from the centre as far as you possibly can. You need extremely good reason to violate this (as this needs you to then design everything else location-wise around that...and live with the far reduced agility/responsiveness or larger needs/costs to address that). It generally will not happen....and heavy things are kept as close to centre as possible.

 

[Lonewolf]

Yes but I am saying you also have to consider the distance from centre of mass.

In other axis, for an aircraft carrier, an irregular shaped runway already imposes huge design constraints on the ships innards placement and ballast tank penalty needed (to balance the whole thing).

Not from the mass/weight itself, but the distances involved of those masses w.r.t the centre of mass.

You want to avoid putting anything heavy far away from the centre as far as you possibly can. You need extremely good reason to violate this (as this needs you to then design everything else location-wise around that...and live with the far reduced agility/responsiveness or larger needs/costs to address that). It generally will not happen....and heavy things are kept as close to centre as possible.

Yup I know basic Centre of mass and involvement of torque and centre of gravity .

I was proposing idea if it is feasible or not , if a new solution is found out

 

[Nilgiri]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1439937349048324104

 

[Lonewolf]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1439937349048324104

This will prove quite useful against whole of Pakistan ,as they use illuminator based SAM only , if the radar is suppressed then SEAD is successful

 

[Nilgiri]

likely to be flight-tested on September 23.

It got pushed to October:

Key trial of 5,000-km ICBM Agni-V in October | India News - Times of India

India News: India will soon conduct another test of its most formidable strategic missile, the over 5,000-km Agni-V, even as work is still in progress to develop

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

 

[Zapper]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1442504558442205186

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1442490250987720710

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1442505338444398592

 

[Rajendra Chola]

It got pushed to October:

Key trial of 5,000-km ICBM Agni-V in October | India News - Times of India

India News: India will soon conduct another test of its most formidable strategic missile, the over 5,000-km Agni-V, even as work is still in progress to develop

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

5 spies were caught. I think that's delaying the user flight trials.

 

[crixus]

5 spies were caught. I think that's delaying the user flight trials.

They are just contractors and you can find same low grade catches after every couple of years . I am still not sure why they expose them just use them to feed the information they wish to

 

[Lonewolf]

I think something is going on ,if you keep tab on news , more than hundred people have been caught For spying etc in last few months .

It don't seem so normal

They are just contractors and you can find same low grade catches after every couple of years . I am still not sure why they expose them just use them to feed the information they wish to

 

[Zapper]

 

[Nilgiri]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1443460445529063425

 

[Nilgiri]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1443348935213568000

 

[Nilgiri]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1445158736000077826

 

[Gessler]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1445158736000077826

Dunno about this...this should have been a strategic program with highest priority accorded, but the lack of any visible progress for over a decade (first time the LFRJ project was revealed was in 2010) indicates the program may have been abandoned as a means of strategic nuclear delivery - the focus may have shifted to Scramjet-based Hypersonic systems instead.

FIRST LOOK: India's Long-Range Cruise Missile Programme - Livefist

The image above is the first impression of India's little known Long-Range Cruise Missile (LRCM). The question now arises -- is this the same as the Nirbhay, India's sub-sonic long-range cruise missile programme? This is still tantalizingly unclear. Why? Well, the Nirbhay has been confirmed by...

www.livefistdefence.com

The LFRJ R&D may be now revived as a means of developing training targets to mimic missiles like the Chinese YJ-12/YJ-18.

 

[Gessler]

Interesting stuff...

The top image seems to show a 4-MIRV configuration...that would be in line with the roadmap shown in the old slides. Can't really tell if this is the A6 land-based missile or K5 SLBM though (they both will have extremely similar profiles).

 

[Gessler]

I would argue that any further kinetic testing of ASAT weapons on our part is no longer necessary. Any further tests that seek to validate new technologies (such as a Multi-Kill Vehicle rumored to be in development by DRDO) can be done so using Point-In-Space testing like what Russia does, where simulated targets are hit instead of real ones. Four countries (USSR/Russia, US, China & India) have already conducted kinetic destruction of orbiting satellites - and that is already 4 countries too many. The risk of debris posing serious threats to space assets is indeed high and must not be exacerbated to the maximum extent possible.

Replying here with regard to something I referenced in the QUAD thread, specifically:

"...Any further tests that seek to validate new technologies (such as a Multi-Kill Vehicle rumored to be in development by DRDO) can be done so using Point-In-Space testing..."

The original post is available here:

Quad Archive

Yeah I'm aware of this, what about the MKI ? Any plan to install AESA radar ? @Nilgiri indigenous scaled up UTTAM AESA radar?

defencehub.live

The first evidence of a MKV (now also called Multi-Object Kill Vehicle or MOKV) being under development by Indian agencies came with a presentation made by the then-chairman of DRDO, Dr. VK Saraswat at the IIT-Bombay university back in 2014, so it was public release.

MKV/MOKVs are basically like MIRVs but for objects that are outside the atmosphere. They are thoroughly dual-use in terms of having applications against both satellites & incoming ballistic missile threats, just as any ASAT weapon is also a BMD weapon.

Following are images of Lockheed Martin & Raytheon's developments of MOKVs, primarily for the Ground Based Interceptor (GBI) program:

The XSV-1 aka PDV Mk-2 tested by India is roughly in the same ballpark as the GBI as far as size/weight is concerned, nice artwork by Maxima Vigilantia comparing the sizes:

(reason why PDV-KKV is so big is because the 2nd stage motor is integral to the assembly, plus the DACS thrusters are probably less efficient compared to the American models, requiring more liquid fuel storage).

* KKV = Kinetic Kill Vehicle
EKV = Exoatmospheric Kill Vehicle

Both basically the same thing, different names

Why do I read this much into some obscure presentation made over 7 years ago? Because this was also the first time that an ASAT development was publicly hinted at, and that turned out to be an undeniable reality 5 years later (2019):

...of course a lot has changed with regard to the configuration of the ASAT missile since then, for example we switched to a K4 SLBM-based boost stage instead of one derived from the old Agni-II. The prospective images of future land-based & submarine-based deterrence (Agni-6 and K5 SLBM) posted in the thread before were also from the same presentation.

@Nilgiri @Gautam @Paro @Cabatli_53 @T-123456 @Saithan @Kartal1 @Lonewolf @Zapper

 

[Lonewolf]

Replying here with regard to something I referenced in the QUAD thread, specifically:

"...Any further tests that seek to validate new technologies (such as a Multi-Kill Vehicle rumored to be in development by DRDO) can be done so using Point-In-Space testing..."

The original post is available here:

Quad Archive

Yeah I'm aware of this, what about the MKI ? Any plan to install AESA radar ? @Nilgiri indigenous scaled up UTTAM AESA radar?

defencehub.live

The first evidence of a MKV (now also called Multi-Object Kill Vehicle or MOKV) being under development by Indian agencies came with a presentation made by the then-chairman of DRDO, Dr. VK Saraswat at the IIT-Bombay university back in 2014, so it was public release.

View attachment 33895

MKV/MOKVs are basically like MIRVs but for objects that are outside the atmosphere. They are thoroughly dual-use in terms of having applications against both satellites & incoming ballistic missile threats, just as any ASAT weapon is also a BMD weapon.

Following are images of Lockheed Martin & Raytheon's developments of MOKVs, primarily for the Ground Based Interceptor (GBI) program:

View attachment 33896

View attachment 33897

The XSV-1 aka PDV Mk-2 tested by India is roughly in the same ballpark as the GBI as far as size/weight is concerned, nice artwork by Maxima Vigilantia comparing the sizes:

View attachment 33898

(reason why PDV-KKV is so big is because the 2nd stage motor is integral to the assembly, plus the DACS thrusters are probably less efficient compared to the American models, requiring more liquid fuel storage).

* KKV = Kinetic Kill Vehicle
EKV = Exoatmospheric Kill Vehicle

Both basically the same thing, different names

Why do I read this much into some obscure presentation made over 7 years ago? Because this was also the first time that an ASAT development was publicly hinted at, and that turned out to be an undeniable reality 5 years later (2019):

View attachment 33900

...of course a lot has changed with regard to the configuration of the ASAT missile since then, for example we switched to a K4 SLBM-based boost stage instead of one derived from the old Agni-II. The prospective images of future land-based & submarine-based deterrence (Agni-6 and K5 SLBM) posted in the thread before were also from the same presentation.

@Nilgiri @Gautam @Paro @Cabatli_53 @T-123456 @Saithan @Kartal1 @Lonewolf @Zapper

@Gessler what do you think about satellite based mkv for anti sat role ? A swarm attacking the enemy sat while mother sat guide them .

Could help in case of war ,where satellite is pre programmed about which satellite to target and if there are decoy too then we still have few kV for original sat

 

[Gessler]

@Gessler what do you think about satellite based mkv for anti sat role ? A swarm attacking the enemy sat while mother sat guide them .

Could help in case of war ,where satellite is pre programmed about which satellite to target and if there are decoy too then we still have few kV for original sat

The full spectrum of anti-satellite capabilities are likely to be developed. That includes direct-ascent (already tested) & co-orbital weapons. All in due time.

 

[Gessler]

Now scheduled for October 27-28