Both can be developed from the same core.how could that be? One is turboshaft, the other is turbofan
Both can be developed from the same core.how could that be? One is turboshaft, the other is turbofan
Zorya vs GE in a nutshell:
Both companies are contacted by a respactable Turkish company for possible use of their engines on a platform to be introduced that has already caught attention of some countries, possible orders exceeding 20. (Totaling 60+ engines including spares)
GE:
Returned in a few days, assigned a senior engineer and one representative without even an MoU and shared all necessary details in a cooperative manner, going through meetings weekly.
Signed MoU with TEI later.
Zorya:
Ignoring their earlier failures to negotiate some deals, this is how they handled the request.
No response in a week (nothing at all)
High level online meeting to discuss and deliver the required information sets.
A month passes, no response at all. Contacted and the reply was "working on that"
2 months have passed still no replies. Meanwhile integration of GE is done and moving on with detailing procedures.
Not even going deep into technical matters, moreover the fact they havent made a solid plan for ToT and local production in Turkey. Discussed a year ago and they havent advanced an inch and dragging a leg for meetings.
Meanwhile all DzKK, SSB and design companies are assured by GE's performance and Zorya being reluctant on inviting Turkish representative in a live demonstration to prove their claims.
I am not detailing this further, informations are from first hand and pretty much known in the circle of marine industry and naval forces.
Jus to add to you comments:Zorya vs GE in a nutshell:
Both companies are contacted by a respactable Turkish company for possible use of their engines on a platform to be introduced that has already caught attention of some countries, possible orders exceeding 20. (Totaling 60+ engines including spares)
GE:
Returned in a few days, assigned a senior engineer and one representative without even an MoU and shared all necessary details in a cooperative manner, going through meetings weekly.
Signed MoU with TEI later.
Zorya:
Ignoring their earlier failures to negotiate some deals, this is how they handled the request.
No response in a week (nothing at all)
High level online meeting to discuss and deliver the required information sets.
A month passes, no response at all. Contacted and the reply was "working on that"
2 months have passed still no replies. Meanwhile integration of GE is done and moving on with detailing procedures.
Not even going deep into technical matters, moreover the fact they havent made a solid plan for ToT and local production in Turkey. Discussed a year ago and they havent advanced an inch and dragging a leg for meetings.
Meanwhile all DzKK, SSB and design companies are assured by GE's performance and Zorya being reluctant on inviting Turkish representative in a live demonstration to prove their claims.
I am not detailing this further, informations are from first hand and pretty much known in the circle of marine industry and naval forces.
Jus to add to you comments:
If one looks at on line about what Zorya shows for their gas turbine and what GE shows, it is clear who is superior to whom.
GE clearly knows the importance of quiet running and makes a point of specifying it as 85dbA and that with their latest products they have improved on it by 60%.
Yet Zorya doesn’t even bother to mention it. GE houses their turbines in special sound proofed compact containers. Zorya equivalent is in the open.
View attachment 34974
View attachment 34975
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When we buy a car we look at the brand and what that brand is offering to us. At the end of the day a Ford Focus takes you from A to B the same time on a speed limited street as an S-Class Mercedes. But the comfort and safety wise we prefer the latter.I don't think this is any indicator of who is superior in this sector; GE is a world-renowned producer of turbine products they hire the best because they can afford the best - doesn't matter how old tech their gas turbines are.
When we buy a car we look at the brand and what that brand is offering to us. At the end of the day a Ford Focus takes you from A to B the same time on a speed limited street as an S-Class Mercedes. But the comfort and safety wise we prefer the latter.
When it comes to warships, the importance of propulsion is not just how cheap it is or it’s pure power. Important point is, how dependable and sustainable the power delivery is. More importantly how much emphasis the propulsion manufacturer is giving on modern warship requirements like quietness of propulsion to help ship’s survivability. For the end user it is also most important how much the manufacturer is behind it’s product.
Do you think if China had access to GE gas turbines they would still be interested in Zorya Mashproekt products?
Both China and India have an advantage though; they both have licenses to produce these turbines in house. They could easily overcome some of the shortcomings by adding their own design and technical inputs.
Zorya had the opportunity with Turkey too. But it seems that they weren’t professional enough to further the joint venture we were looking to achieve with them. Had that become a reality the definition of superiority would change too!
Seyir füzelerinin motor ihtiyacı yerli olarak karşılanacak
Seyir füzelerinin motor ihtiyacı yerli olarak karşılanacak
Seyir füzelerinin motor ihtiyaçlarının yerli ürünlerle karşılanması amacıyla Savunma Sanayii Başkanlığı ile Kale Ar-Ge arasında iş birliği protokolü imzalandıwww.savunmasanayiidergilik.com
İsmail Demir Head of Defense Industries affiliated to the Presidency, signed a protocol with Kale R&D for the ARAT project, which was launched.
ARAT engine will also meet an important need of cruise missiles
With the ARAT project, which means 'death fish', it is aimed to meet the engine needs of platforms with similar thrust levels, especially cruise missiles, with domestic and national resources. The ARAT engine, which has a design and qualification that can operate at high altitudes and harsh environmental conditions, also fulfills an important need of cruise missiles.
Iste Buuuu!
From being so distraught in developing KTJ-3200 because of the setbacks in development, they wanted to focus on APUs and leave the jet engines behind them. Now Kale R&D is being supported with a secondary project! GEZGIN LACM you're going to be a beast
probably this will be a very special engine like its name. We don't know yet what will be its features but it's probably aimed to be one of the longest burning engines in its class.
TEI and Kale R&D duo are developing 3 different turbine engines for 3 different missile systems.
Idealab is developing turbojet engine for the Kuzgun-TJ.
- OMGSF anti-ship missiles
- SOM B/C/J, AtmacaKara, Atmaca missile systems
- Gezgin family ultra long range missiles
When the development of these missiles is completed, Turkey will have no gap of subsonic class cruise missiles.
It'll be the same dimensions as KTJ-3200, so they can slap it onto SOM for sureARAT is coming baby I think it is not only for GEZGİN. A new ALCM (maybe SOM-ER or something with a new name)
ARAT is a turbojet, Gezgin was supposed to be powered by a turbofan. So it is likely that ARAT is like a matured version of KTJ-3200. This simply means longer range. Still not the turbofan for Gezgin. Gezgin's engine will likely come from Ukraine until a Turkish maker makes a new one.
On the other hand Gezgin is likely to have several models with various ranges. So ARAT maybe the engine for a shorter range Gezgin or an extended range SOM which will be followed by a longer range Gezgin powered by a turbofan. Ranges for the Gezgin missile are cited as 800 km and 1400, AFAIK.
1000 km is a respectable range however %40 percent longer range maybe attainable by using a turbofan instead of a turbojet (depending on the bypass ratio of the engine). You can only make a turbofan engine once you have mastered the turbojet.SCALP Naval is powered by a Turbojet engine that was developed from TR40, range of SCALP naval is said to be over 1000km. It is not a necessity for a turbofan engine if a turbojet engine has similar performance margins - and at this small scale, there aren't many gains.
I read somewhere that SCALP’s range is 1000 km if fired from a submarine which is 1400 km if fired from a ship.SCALP Naval is powered by a Turbojet engine that was developed from TR40, range of SCALP naval is said to be over 1000km. It is not a necessity for a turbofan engine if a turbojet engine has similar performance margins - and at this small scale, there aren't many gains.
Arat means fish of death in Turkish Mythology.View attachment 35050
With the power in the KTJ-3200, ARAT will come:
• With the knowledge in KaleArge KTJ-3200, a turbojet engine with high efficiency, low fuel consumption and high thrust will be developed.
• It will meet the needs of cruise missiles and platforms that need similar thrust levels.