TR Naval Programs

[Cabatli_TR]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1466507279159672840

 

[Yasar_TR]

@Anmdt , If Turkish Navy can get Super Rapid version at the lower price Oto Melara was supposedly offering recently , do you still think they will place orders on this indigenous but lower spec version?

 

[Yasar_TR]

MKE has done a great job. If memory serves, they were also working on a 155mm Excalibur like munition with guidance. So it is only logical to assume that it may not be too long before a Vulcano type indigenously produced 76mm round is produced to complete the project.

 

[Anmdt]

@Anmdt , If Turkish Navy can get Super Rapid version at the lower price Oto Melara was supposedly offering recently , do you still think they will place orders on this indigenous but lower spec version?

Not anymore. They agreed to that as well but it is late. Discount will not save them this time.

They were making good offers on other calibers as well, to make up for the incident, for future platforms but seeing they may even intend to embargo, TN has switched to domestic supply.

If not the gun, in future they likely will not deliver the advanced munitions or the guidance systems.

MKE has not taken the rabbit out of the hat in a day, they have been heavily asissted by experienced people and partners. Navy took this project very seriously.

 

[Huelague]

Generally that big antennas you say are for ballistic missile or satellite tracking. Some ships are used for both SIGINT and missile test tracking. For example Dupuy de Lome has 2 satellite tracking antennas. Turkey don't need such systems for now. View attachment 36628

Why you think that?

 

[TheInsider]

@Anmdt , If Turkish Navy can get Super Rapid version at the lower price Oto Melara was supposedly offering recently , do you still think they will place orders on this indigenous but lower spec version?

Overall MKE gun is a lot better than super rapid with the exclusion of firing rate which is less important than people think. No one will fire 120 rounds in a minute.

 

[Turko]

firing rate which is less important

When you use guided DART either 4P ammunition against air targets it is very important. the 76mm gun of FREMM is called as CIWS!
And Italian FREMMS have two 76 mmgun.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Overall MKE gun is a lot better than super rapid with the exclusion of firing rate which is less important than people think. No one will fire 120 rounds in a minute.

Can you explain to us what makes the MKE gun “a lot” better than super rapid please? (Apart from being indigenous)

 

[Turko]

Are we going to do also 57mm naval gun? US Navy for LCS prefered 57 mm cal rather than 76mm.

Indeed they wanted 30mm autocannon against swarm attacks then they realized 57mm orka guided ammunition more effective than 30mm burst.

Türkish Navy also could consider 57mm option however creating 76 mm guided ammunition must be easier than 57 mm because of dimensions.

New 57 mm Anti-Swarm Munition

ComNavOps has noted that the Navy’s LCS gun defense against small craft in the swarm scenario is ineffective. It appears that the Navy has...

navy-matters.blogspot.com

@Anmdt Why would you prefer 76mm guided DART rather than RIM-116?
I can't understand the Italians and the Frenchs.

 

[Quasar]

Are we going to do also 57mm naval gun? US Navy for LCS prefered 57 mm cal rather than 76mm.

Indeed they wanted 30mm autocannon against swarm attacks then they realized 57mm orka guided ammunition more effective than 30mm burst.

Türkish Navy also could consider 57mm option however creating 76 mm guided ammunition must be easier than 57 mm because of dimensions.

New 57 mm Anti-Swarm Munition

ComNavOps has noted that the Navy’s LCS gun defense against small craft in the swarm scenario is ineffective. It appears that the Navy has...

navy-matters.blogspot.com

@Anmdt Why would you prefer 76mm guided DART rather than RIM-116?
I can't understand the Italians and the Frenchs.

may be it should be mainly about your threat perception. 57 mm cal may be more effective againgst swarm attacks but lets say 76 mm may have range advantage or dual use advantage both for air and especially for SURFACE targets. just some thoughts

 

[Turko]

may be it should be mainly about your threat perception. 57 mm cal may be more effective againgst swarm attacks but lets say 76 mm may have range advantage or dual use advantage both for air and especially for SURFACE targets. just some thoughts

Anyway we did great job also we don't need guided 76mm ammunition since we have Gökdeniz ER-LEVENT.

 

[Anmdt]

Can you explain to us what makes the MKE gun “a lot” better than super rapid please? (Apart from being indigenous)

Nobody can claim this before the gun has been tested for 2 years at sea, proven its reliability and consistency in different sea states at least, and gone through a major maintenance.

Are we going to do also 57mm naval gun? US Navy for LCS prefered 57 mm cal rather than 76mm.

Indeed they wanted 30mm autocannon against swarm attacks then they realized 57mm orka guided ammunition more effective than 30mm burst.

Türkish Navy also could consider 57mm option however creating 76 mm guided ammunition must be easier than 57 mm because of dimensions.

New 57 mm Anti-Swarm Munition

ComNavOps has noted that the Navy’s LCS gun defense against small craft in the swarm scenario is ineffective. It appears that the Navy has...

navy-matters.blogspot.com

@Anmdt Why would you prefer 76mm guided DART rather than RIM-116?
I can't understand the Italians and the Frenchs.
View attachment 36640

57mm is good for commonalization, you can literally equip from the smallest patrol boat to a frigate with this munition.

But it won't be beat good old realiable. Only may complement it as a secondary gun.

Dart is cheaper than RAM for sure but it doesnt mean i will prefer Dart over RAM.

Proximity fuse and programmable features are good too especially against air and surface swarms.

 

[Khagan1923]

Not anymore. They agreed to that as well but it is late. Discount will not save them this time.

They were making good offers on other calibers as well, to make up for the incident, for future platforms but seeing they may even intend to embargo, TN has switched to domestic supply.

If not the gun, in future they likely will not deliver the advanced munitions or the guidance systems.

MKE has not taken the rabbit out of the hat in a day, they have been heavily asissted by experienced people and partners. Navy took this project very seriously.

There is a good chance Oto Melara is being sold to the Germans or a French+German consortium.

So in the near future we would have no access to 76mm guns at all. This couldn't have come at a better time. We would have been left with the British 57mm or American 127mm.

Not to mention the immense delays the TN has faced from Oto Melara. Which was reason enough to develop an indigenous 76mm.

I also have seen some fellows trying to criticize the project by trying to compare the Oto Melara 76mm with this gun.

And honestly if anyone is bothered by this being a copy, if it is one at all, of the Oto Melara gun can cry in a corner.

 

[what]

There is a good chance Oto Melara is being sold to the Germans or a French+German consortium.

So in the near future we would have no access to 76mm guns at all. This couldn't have come at a better time. We would have been left with the British 57mm or American 127mm.

Not to mention the immense delays the TN has faced from Oto Melara. Which was reason enough to develop an indigenous 76mm.

I also have seen some fellows trying to criticize the project by trying to compare the Oto Melara 76mm with this gun.

And honestly if anyone is bothered by this being a copy, if it is one at all, of the Oto Melara gun can cry in a corner.

Handelsblatt

www.handelsblatt.com

According to Handelsblatt KNDS (French, German company) will offer around 650m € for Oto Melara to the Leonardo Group.

 

[CAN_TR]

WOW not only OTO Melara but also WASS (torpedo manufacturer) is mentioned those two are really important comapnies for the Italian Armed Forces.

OTO Melara is not only producing naval guns btw. but also, the Ariete MBT, IFV and other armored vehicles. The French and Germans trying to eliminate all of their competitors in Europe.

 

[TheInsider]

Can you explain to us what makes the MKE gun “a lot” better than super rapid please? (Apart from being indigenous)

It has a longer barrel life compared to super rapid. It has fully digitalized controls, it is fully integrated with Genesys Advent. It has more precise stabilization and less deviation at the full range. It has the ability to use both seawater and freshwater as a coolant. Seawater causes many problems as a coolant so from time to time the system needs to be flushed with fresh water. There is also a deicing system on MKE 76mm gun. Super rapid doesn't have those abilities.

 

[Ecderha]

There is a good chance Oto Melara is being sold to the Germans or a French+German consortium.

So in the near future we would have no access to 76mm guns at all. This couldn't have come at a better time. We would have been left with the British 57mm or American 127mm.

Not to mention the immense delays the TN has faced from Oto Melara. Which was reason enough to develop an indigenous 76mm.

I also have seen some fellows trying to criticize the project by trying to compare the Oto Melara 76mm with this gun.

And honestly if anyone is bothered by this being a copy, if it is one at all, of the Oto Melara gun can cry in a corner.

As you may know why lot of Italy companies are in bad position.
Defaulted EU countries-
-greece 260% debt
-Italy 170% debt
-spain 130% debt
-france 98% debt

Germany and UK were taking debts of above countries (shifting the owner for specific time and giving money). Remember this is debt which is THERE and only change is that it is put on long term of paying little by little but this DEBT must be paid.

What Italy and Spain DO is that they offer CREDITS in Turkiye so -> Turks becoming worker to pay DEBT which is provided by foriener bank Italy and Spain. When Turk pay little by little his debt then -> Italy and Spain banks Pay their own Debts.

france and greece try to do the same in Turkiye but they are not So Big in providing bank Creadits to Turks


At end Turks by taking credit from foreiner bank they work and pay debts of own and others.Also by doing this they Fuck own Lira exchange


Bottom line is THAT if Italy companies do NOT have forieners to buy their product they can NOT close fiancial year without paying Already Debts which they have.

So Company MUST be SOLD-> But Company is Military one with Strategic imporntants so -> EU Germany and France Will MUST BUY IT
IF this buying of Italy company by EU was NOT want to buy it. Then be 100% sure that china or russia or other will BUY IT

 

[Anmdt]

MKE 76/62 will likely be tested on the B-Class corvette that is undergoing a retrofit and upgrade in Izmir Naval Shipyard. (Guessing by assumptions only)

If there was a test vessel with a dedicated gun mount, we wouldn't need to spare one of the ships for this duty of tests planned to continue throughout the year.

 

[Yasar_TR]

It has a longer barrel life compared to super rapid. It has fully digitalized controls, it is fully integrated with Genesys Advent. It has more precise stabilization and less deviation at the full range. It has the ability to use both seawater and freshwater as a coolant. Seawater causes many problems as a coolant so from time to time the system needs to be flushed with fresh water. There is also a deicing system on MKE 76mm gun. Super rapid doesn't have those abilities.

Thanks for the reply.
However comparing 80rounds per minute gun’s barrel life to a 120 rounds per minute gun is not fair. Slower gun should inherently have a longer barrel life anyway. I know that MKE has been developing a very long lasting coating for the gun barrels and improving the gun barrel life. So when MKE produces the 120 rounds per minute version and better Super Rapido’s barrel life , then this argument will be more valid.
TCG Kinaliada has Genesis system and also has Super Rapido. Are you saying that TCG Kinaliada’s Genesis system can’t control it’s main gun?
Leonardo claims that the Super Rapido has a “Digital Control Console”.

76/62 SUPER RAPID

www.leonardocompany.com

It is a fact that, in the US when tested, standard Oto Melara Gun at sustained firing, almost self destroyed. With the new Super Rapido, they claim they have resolved these issues and made a more stable, lighter and precise gun.
Being one of the most common users of this gun, and MKE making certain parts of it, I can envisage us making a very capable gun with a number of improvements over the “Compact” version.

 

[what]

WOW not only OTO Melara but also WASS (torpedo manufacturer) is mentioned those two are really important comapnies for the Italian Armed Forces.

OTO Melara is not only producing naval guns btw. but also, the Ariete MBT, IFV and other armored vehicles. The French and Germans trying to eliminate all of their competitors in Europe.

France and Germany want to create joint European tanks, jets etc, and they are going to do it either the cooperation way or the I'll buy your companies way.


Just to add to that, the EU is looking to create European defence giants similar to Airbus. Nexter and KMW merger was the first step, adding Italian capabilities makes it a step closer to have the Airbus of tanks and armoured vehicles. Leonardo should just join the JV instead of selling their pearls.

Italy was apparently interested in joining the project while Poland was rejected.

Main Ground Combat System - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

KNDS – Wikipedia

de.wikipedia.org