TR TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[KalkiOfToday]

Before you start blaming TEI with lying let’s get the facts straight.
TEI MD said that they have produced the core of a jet engine that leads the way to a turbofan. By producing the TS-1400 turbo shaft engine they have done exactly that. They have an indigenously designed and produced turbo shaft engine that works and is in integration stage to an indigenously produced “Gokbey“ multi purpose helicopter at the moment.
The TS-1400 is a radial flow turbo shaft engine. In order to try out the axial flow turbojet production, they produced the small TJ-300 turbojet engine that can power a medium range anti ship missile as an exercise of sorts. (This engine actually showed that it can lend itself quite well to practical applications.)
TEI also produces the T700 engine for the Blackhawk helicopters for Turkish defence forces. The hot sections and single crystal turbine blades of this engine is produced in house at TEI. It has more than 65% local production input.
TEI has the know how and expertise to produce turbofan engines. They have produced all the GE 110 engines used in Turkish and Egyptian F16 fighter jets. They do all the maintenance work on the F110-129 and F110-132 engines. TEI MD has openly stated that they can at TEI produce the F110 engine with over 50% local input level; with the rest being ancillaries that can be obtained from foreign sources.
There is a turbofan engine currently related to TEI (because of a patent application news has leaked) called TF6000. It has not been confirmed. But there are strong suggestions that this is an ongoing project at a very mature state.
Most of TEI’s indigenous work regarding Turkish military developments will never be published. They are not a university or a multinational engine design house that will publish their work for the benefit of their shareholders etc. Most of the work carried out is at ”state secret” level and under wraps due to foreign interference occurring in the recent months.

Most of the work carried out is at ”state secret” level and under wraps due to foreign interference occurring in the recent months.

LoL. Buddy, even a secretive country like china whose engine manufacturer doesn't have any shareholders publish a lot a research paper, just as india and russia.

TEI has the know how and expertise to produce turbofan engines. They have produced all the GE 110 engines used in Turkish and Egyptian F16 fighter jets. They do all the maintenance work on the F110-129 and F110-132 engines. TEI MD has openly stated that they can at TEI produce the F110 engine with over 50% local input level; with the rest being ancillaries that can be obtained from foreign sources.

You don't get all the know how of a turbofan just by assembling 50% of that engine. And you get only 0% know why by license producing a foreign engine. We even produce more than 90% of AL31fp from ground up including the SCB yet we hardly got any know why.

TEI MD said that they have produced the core of a jet engine that leads the way to a turbofan. By producing the TS-1400 turbo shaft engine they have done exactly that. They have an indigenously designed and produced turbo shaft engine that works and is in integration stage to an indigenously produced “Gokbey“ multi purpose helicopter at the moment.
The TS-1400 is a radial flow turbo shaft engine. In order to try out the axial flow turbojet production, they produced the small TJ-300 turbojet engine that can power a medium range anti ship missile as an exercise of sorts. (This engine actually showed that it can lend itself quite well to practical applications.)

Small turbojet for missiles have nothing to do with a military grade turbofan.
Turboshaft and turbofan are also different. Turboshaft's core doesn't even come close to that of a turbofan. The only useful thing you'll get out of the turboshaft is the single crystal blade, even than it's not enough cuz turbofan's SCBs are much more heat tolerant.
.
If you have any more information regarding the TF6000 than please share

 

[KalkiOfToday]

We are talking about a company that can do this:

https://www.tei.com.tr/en/products/uluslararasi-motorlara-imalat-katkilari-en/ge9x-2581

We are talking about a company that can produce three-stage long chord blisk fan. A company that can produce parts for engines with additive 3D technologies.
And is this:

https://www.tei.com.tr/en/corporate/about-us

https://www.tei.com.tr/uploads/docs/tei-post/1597838514_tei-post136eng.pdf

I don't question TEI's capability of manufacturing engine parts, they are doing it for a long time. What i've questioned is that their and some other people's claim of designing and developing a proper turbofan of a class of F119.

 

[Brokengineer]

I don't question TEI's capability of manufacturing engine parts, they are doing it for a long time. What i've questioned is that their and some other people's claim of designing and developing a proper turbofan of a class of F119.

We are excited from the developments in uav's , range of missiles and variety of defense sector. This is by far the most challenging of all.

Although, Tei has not come up any Turbofan engine, they have made ts1400 and they have been manufacturing hefty amount of ge , pw tf engines such as genx , cfm leap ( largest sub contractor), ge9x.

I personally am not expecting any 20,000lb tf engine sooner than 10 years. I hope that i am wrong.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

I don't question TEI's capability of manufacturing engine parts, they are doing it for a long time. What i've questioned is that their and some other people's claim of designing and developing a proper turbofan of a class of F119.

I kindly recommend that you wait and see the results rather than trying to reach a conclusion with assumptions, because judging a project with a few scientific articles you have reached in a few sources will not lead you to the right conclusion. Every time an Indian comes to this topic and tells the Turks what Turkish institutes can and cannot do in the manner of an "engine expert", it has started to cause this issue to go off the rails and the members are starting to get bored. It will give more accurate results to stay calm and continue to follow the projects, rather than making definite decisions with a few scraps of information you know about the subjects you are interested in.

 

[Yasar_TR]

LoL. Buddy, even a secretive country like china whose engine manufacturer doesn't have any shareholders publish a lot a research paper, just as india and russia.

You don't get all the know how of a turbofan just by assembling 50% of that engine. And you get only 0% know why by license producing a foreign engine. We even produce more than 90% of AL31fp from ground up including the SCB yet we hardly got any know why.

Small turbojet for missiles have nothing to do with a military grade turbofan.
Turboshaft and turbofan are also different. Turboshaft's core doesn't even come close to that of a turbofan. The only useful thing you'll get out of the turboshaft is the single crystal blade, even than it's not enough cuz turbofan's SCBs are much more heat tolerant.
.
If you have any more information regarding the TF6000 than please share

1. I am not your “Buddy” !!
2. I am not going to respond to your comments. I tried to explain the situation in a civil manner without ”laughing out loud”!!
3. If you wish to be cynical about Turkish engine manufacturing capability by comparing it to your own country’s standards, keep doing it. It is a free world. But please don’t bring it here. Stay in your own sub forums.

 

[Nilgiri]

@Nilgiri

If one wants papers/science output (related to the subject), one should search properly for it before giving sweeping statements. This is leading to some sense of deja vu in this thread in just a few pages time....

Time spent is commensurate to interest....one can spend 5 minutes on it, others can spend 5 years on it.

Some years back I was deputed to headhunting talent our company wanted....and I got a look into just how much we put into all kind of search+filter+track+prioritise of "targets" we were interested to acquire....i.e the mapping and strategy for it....that no doubt other companies do the same w.r.t what we have. Any case that line of work was not my favourite, though I think I will do better next time if I am asked again.

The important thing here that can be applied more broadly is you need to cascade how you look into these things....and know the first broad layers of it.

Science/Engg papers need a few keyword searches related to the field and top universities of the country etc ...then you use linkedin and researchgate etc...to start first layer network of interest to take further.

https://www.linkedin.com/company/tei?challengeId=AQHVICQnizA4hwAAAX4hquEaCbsyZ1gLrPsmMok0UHcwg05ho3auN5M1AmwFSoqzo0z798dfcez8bMvfBYkxsKB0eCQTyi8H2g&submissionId=dd3eb891-39dd-c616-0a53-1ca31d4cec37

http://www.ijmmm.org/vol3/174-A003.pdf

Eskişehir Teknik Üniversitesi Akademik Personel Özgeçmiş Sistemi

akademik.eskisehir.edu.tr

Sitki UsLu

TED University - Cited by 218 - Combustion

scholar.google.com

and so on....

That is if you want to get into layers immediately past taking science and engineering output, credibility and ranking to begin with.

The latter ought to be accepted in neutral good faith if you look for it. It is even seen more specifically:

An oasis of innovation - The GE Aerospace Blog | Aviation & Flight News

When you look at Istanbul for the first time as the plane approaches the Ataturk Airport, what’s striking is not just the vastness of the city stretching below your eyes. It is equally impressive to fly over that sea stripe drawn in the Bosphorus Strait, with the Asian continent to the left and...

blog.geaviation.com

All leading to as has been said many times already (for those that dont want to do proper layered search + analysis in specific realm):

Simply give it time and see results for yourself.

But sometimes....as one deep song goes....all lies and jests, still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest.....

 

[Huelague]

Partners will order TF-X which means there will be guaranteed exports. Roll-out is still an early phase for TF-X development. It will be a good opportunity to inject some capital into the project and share risks and bring costs down.

Likely partner candidates are Azerbaijan, Qatar, Pakistan, Indonesia, Malaysia, Bangladesh, Ukraine.

Poland? As a rumour.

 

[Saithan]

Poland? As a rumour.

Why would Poland acquire TFX when they're part of the defense umbrella of US much more than Turkey and have easier access to US tech. They may have bought TB2 but I don't think they're going to jump onto our strategic assets, not when it means falling out with US.

 

[TheInsider]

Poland already ordered the F-35.

 

[Combat-Master]

On Thursday, January 6, with the participation of President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, some critical facilities will be opened at TAI.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1478341923039592451

Which facilities are these, I know of the wind tunnel is there anything else ?

 

[Yasar_TR]

KAI-KF-21 Bramae has got 6 prototypes built.
These will be furnishing Koreans with invaluable data whilst being tested on the ground, and after first flight this year, with initial flight data to be used in serial production stage.
I can’t wait to see the same stage for TFX. Hurry up March 2023!!

Güney Kore'nin Yerli Savaş Uçağı İlk Uçuşuna Hazırlanıyor

Güney Kore’nin yerli üretim savaş uçağı KF-21 Boramae’de geliştirme süreçleri hızla devam ediyor. Bugüne kadar toplamda altı adet KF-21 prototipi üretildi.

www.savunmasanayist.com

 

[Ravenman]

Poland? As a rumour.

Poland ordered the F-35. In Europe you can only count on Hungary, Albania, Serbia, Azerbaijan, Switserland, Belarus, Kosovo, Moldova, Bosnia, Georgia and Macedonia. Mostly non-EU or former Soviet countries with Soviet airforce tech.

 

[Indos]

Why would Poland acquire TFX when they're part of the defense umbrella of US much more than Turkey and have easier access to US tech. They may have bought TB2 but I don't think they're going to jump onto our strategic assets, not when it means falling out with US.

If Malaysia pick Hurjet for their LCA acquisition then big possibility Malaysia will be the second customer of TFX after Turkish Air Force.

Pakistan look like will order J 31 by looking to their recent deal ( J-10 C), or even J 20 if China allows Pakistan to have it.

 

[Indos]

KAI-KF-21 Bramae has got 6 prototypes built.
These will be furnishing Koreans with invaluable data whilst being tested on the ground, and after first flight this year, with initial flight data to be used in serial production stage.
I can’t wait to see the same stage for TFX. Hurry up March 2023!!

Güney Kore'nin Yerli Savaş Uçağı İlk Uçuşuna Hazırlanıyor

Güney Kore’nin yerli üretim savaş uçağı KF-21 Boramae’de geliştirme süreçleri hızla devam ediyor. Bugüne kadar toplamda altı adet KF-21 prototipi üretildi.

www.savunmasanayist.com

View attachment 38011

Total will be 8 prototypes, 2 of them will be for static test (not flying), Indonesian Aerospace will have one as well (flying prototype) inshaAllah.

 

[Indos]

Actually we are supposed to build one prototype in Indonesia, but due to Indonesian government late response in completing the production facility then all prototypes will be built in Korea. Indonesia Aerospace produce some parts for prototype 1,2, and 6. The aluminium parts only due to current Indonesian government late response for composite production. Actually we have already had composite production facility for civilian plane and UAV, but look like the composite made for KF 21 cannot use current composite production facility in Indonesian Aerospace

 

[CAN_TR]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1478627451286667270

 

[Cabatli_TR]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1478656653457305600

• MMU engineering building: 2300
• Composite production facility: 1000
• Space systems engineering facility: 718
• Component maintenance, repair and control facility: 510 personnel

 

[TR_123456]

Why should Turkey accept partners after TFX rollout?
Turkey is searching for financial partners, as far as I know, in order to fund the aircraft production. However, if Turkey already produced the prototype and all the necessary infrastructure with its own money, then there is no need for partners; instead, it is better to sell a downgraded version of the aircraft without any pre-conditions

Partners are not for the financial(small part) part only,its about creating a network.
The TFX can be a stepping stone for new alliances,be it military economic or political.
Take the F-16 or the Mig 21 as an example.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1478806898841423872

We can see the final version of the Hürjet on the assembly line tomorrow. @SavunmaSanayiST.com

 

[MADDOG]

The newly opened TAI National Combat Aircraft Engineering Facility. Here we can see the assembly facility in the background as well.

I don't know why they would re-open this building again. Visited that place last year, seemed pretty operational to me. Came across both Turkish and foreign engineers there. Maybe they're just announcing it now idk.