India Coffee House

Jackdaws

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U want proof , let me give you proof .

His wife committed suicide as justice can't be delivered to her as she was from minority .


You must have heard of this event , just because the voted for a particular party ,they were massacred .

You want more ? You can't expect those people to act as cowards whose families were killed without provocation or the right to freedom should not be allowed to hindus as they are majority ?

These incidents have changed a average person .

Genocide won't happen but condition will worsen in some regions where they commit violence and they are responsible for it themselves .
Amit Malviya is your news source?

 

Zafer

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Tell that to the average radical guy who seethe on why his sister is studying . Radicalization in south Asia is beyond understanding of a average Turk , you guys are abused so badly just because you guys respect Ataturk , and chose western culture.

No genocide will happen , Hindus have never done a genocide in their entire existence , against our tradition and religion , though not true for other community .

So chill nothing will happen , but if some muslim majority areas tries to be the bad boy , they will surely become example for rest of the country , example Kashmir for starters .
Modi government has to take responsibility and stop calls for killings with an iron fist. There is no such thing as people react action with an action of their choosing. It is only the government that is licensed to take action. Individuals become criminals if they act on their own.
 

Jackdaws

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Modi government has to take responsibility and stop calls for killings with an iron fist. There is no such thing as people react action with an action of their choosing. It is only the government that is licensed to take action. Individuals become criminals if they act on their own.
He is basically a more polished version of Trump.
 

crixus

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Is there any proof to back up your claims?

A few people getting lost happens anywhere in the world while calling for killing of people at genocidal scale is really rare.
Yes , when you are already seeing it with overall majority vs minority lens then you will never see the clear picture :

Kashmirir Pandits latest link and if you wish google Kashmiri Pandits exodus :

Kairana :

Mewat , I personally know those areas :

To be honest , the gap between Muslims and non Muslims in north India is deep starting from the Sikh guru murders to the post independence riots
 

crixus

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Modi government has to take responsibility and stop calls for killings with an iron fist. There is no such thing as people react action with an action of their choosing. It is only the government that is licensed to take action. Individuals become criminals if they act on their own.
Modi govt is literally spine less , when it comes to internal matters . As a govt some strict action is expected from them against any call for violence based on any grounds .
 
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Nilgiri

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Npte: Haridwar hate speech threads merged. Please keep all further news and discussion about it here.

This is what I am talking about


With proper context of (esp Haugen's testimony in capitol hill), these "whistleblowers" are part of the problem (and an especially rotten one), not the solution.

They are fundamentally (avowed) hypocritical authoritarians themselves (part of why they have been heavily involved in the authoritarian gatekeeper system to begin with)...and thus have zero credibility on the subject.

This is symptomatic of the problem at large.

Most folks (plebs) are given just a headline and partial (selective) tidbits....as that's also what they have illustrated they have time for in this day and age. They dont explore the context and the angles that take more time (but are important to form reasoned basis of one's position)

Way I see it the plebs just have to organically wake up (normally by enough broad basis failure built up that everyone agrees upon readily, in whichever form that materialises w.r.t the populations perception and tolerance for such things as deception and gaslighting done by the higher-ups that be).

That took, takes and will take a long time with sufficiently large countries with a myriad of "easy bait" psychologies and various fissure lines (For various sub-tribal insularity) at play....and end result is never clear (you simply live a life and see it from whichever perspective).

But it is the only way compared to powers to be intervening selectively (and often quite monstrously in their own regard) in discourse.

There is simply no easy or even hard way around this. Just really difficult long grinding and eternally nebulous ways we humans dont quite know about given we simply do not understand the numbers involved in populations and the combined times and thinking (aggregate and net) of all of that.

That reality runs counter to our desire for simplicity and contrast....further compounding the problem and strife.

I think someone recently put it to me as we have the technology of the modern age, the body of the iron age, and the mind of the paleolithic.

I don't quite agree with the entirety of that implication, but its on the right heading on what the issue (i.e relative inertial frames in our reality) is.
 
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Nilgiri

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First , of all this hue and cry , this call for genocide from hindu side is for the first time , but implementation of genocide from Indian muslim community is a fact , take it Kashmir , or the Kerala upper districts , or the mischief in Hyderabad old cities .

Even the brother of a politician openly calls for genocide of Hindus , lot of fatwa and those sar tan se juda(beheading ) banners and rallies against Hindus is a common thing for someone who lived in a radicalized M majority area .

@Jackdaws @Nilgiri you guys pray for social harmony ,but you are too older than me and u better understand that it requires both hands to clap and both hands to shake hands .

I live in a state where m population is not so high ,but all those cases of girls running away and later found chopped in bags have accused belonging to a particular community , this is my observation in last 5 years , and yet nobody calls this out as outright communal disharmony . But bury their head in sand , but some loud mouth just makes few speeches which they don't have means for implementation as temple don't have funds for their preist to do something like this .

And @Zafer those good guys who made peace with hindus are regarded as kafirs in radicalized section , which forms majority in some areas .

Now how would you like a person to react , @Jackdaws those slogans in post bengal election time as fake anti muslim propoganda or those dead bodies of innocent people from hindu community killed by mob raising particular slogans and videos doing rounds and being verified as fake , or as per your theory bjp and radical hindus wore skull cap and did all this to create unrest , am i right ?

It was bjp who massacred kashmiri pandits ,so when they come in power they can exploit the Muslim of Kashmir , am i right ?

You stand for womens right , yes or no ? So you think all those statements of a particular community during CAA and triple talaq(divorce by saying divorce three times if husband wish to do so) removal were made by radical hindus in disguise .

You don't want to face reality doesn't mean reality don't exist .

Collective demonisation is bad.

I have gotten leered at (and worse) as Tamil....on the faulty basis that LTTE = all Tamils.

Both by fellow Indians and by foreigners....sometimes by accident, but other times purposefully.

So doing such for anyone else rankles me quickly than it otherwise might have.

We call out what is bad that is bad specifically and precisely (individuals and whatever irrationality found at some prevalence in some group)....it is the only reasonable and rational way.

Making it collective tribal in and out group based (past being immoral and illogical) divides along seams and fissures most grievously. India can ill-afford that being a complex web of identities and its long term goal to have Bharati one come first in all its hearts and minds.
 

Nilgiri

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An export-focused department could help build on export successes like the recent sale of BrahMos missiles to the Philippines


Sandeep Unnithan New DelhiJanuary 19, 2022UPDATED: January 20, 2022 11:56 IST

BrahMos supersonic cruise missile, with major indigenous systems, successfully test-fired from ITR, at Chandipur, in Odisha on Sept. 30, 2019; (ANI Photo)



On January 14, the Philippines government announced it was purchasing BrahMos cruise missiles from India. The choice of both the missile and the platform the selection was announced on, turned some heads. In a Facebook post, Philippines’ Defence Secretary Delfin Lorenzana said that his country was acquiring three batteries of the ground-launched cruise missiles for $374.96 million (Rs 2796.80 crore). BrahMos Aerospace Ltd, an Indo-Russian joint venture which makes the missiles, won the contract after a five-year evaluation process. The BrahMos was pitted against rival Israeli and Ukrainian missiles.

The BrahMos (a portmanteau of the Brahmaputra and Moskva rivers) is a variant of Russia’s Yakhont supersonic anti-ship missile. It has ground-launched, air-launched, sea- and underwater-launched versions and has been in service with the Indian armed forces for over 20 years. BrahMos Aerospace has pitched the missile to potential buyers in Brazil, UAE, South Africa, Malaysia, Chile and Indonesia for over a decade without success. The Philippines deal, defence officials say, not just brightens the BrahMos’ export potential with other clients, but also for an identical order for the Philippines army worth over $300 million.

Each coastal defence missile battery has six vehicles—three missile launch trucks each with two missiles, one missile loading truck, an Over the Horizon Radar and a command-and-control centre.

It is a deal with significant geopolitical consequences. Philippines is currently locked in a territorial dispute over the South China Sea with China. It needs the mobile supersonic missiles each with a range of 290 km to deter intruding Chinese ships. (Interestingly, the deal has been okayed at the highest levels in Moscow, a close ally of Beijing). The BrahMos missile systems are air-portable and can be flown in the Philippine air force C-130 transport aircraft and rapidly deployed for launch.

Defence exports are a pillar of the government’s drive to attain self-sufficiency in defence production. The Ministry of defence (MoD) informed parliament last December that India had exported defence equipment worth Rs 8,434 crore in 2020-21, compared to Rs 1,940 crore in 2014-15. Over 30 Indian defence companies have exported arms and equipment to countries like Italy, Maldives, Sri Lanka, Russia, France, Nepal, Mauritius, Sri Lanka, Israel, Egypt, UAE, Bhutan, Ethiopia, Saudi Arabia, Philippines, Poland, Spain and Chile. The exports include personal protective items, defence electronics systems, engineering mechanical equipment, offshore patrol vessels, advanced light helicopters, avionics suits, radio systems and radar systems.

In 2020, the MoD targeted defence exports of Rs 35,000 crore ($5 billion) till 2024. In order to achieve this target, a 2020 KPMG report says, defence exports have to grow at over 40 per cent until 2024. There is however a huge gap between intent and action. The Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI) ranked India at number 23 in the list of major arms exporters for 2015-2019. India still accounts for only 0.17 per cent of global arms exports. This is why India’s MoD needs to study best practises of the biggest arms exporting countries. Most of these countries have successfully sold arms worth billions of dollars to New Delhi and enriched their own R&D base, generated jobs in the high-technology defence sector and created diplomatic leverage for their governments.


The US, the world’s largest arms exporter, has a Bureau of Political-Military affairs that oversees defence exports. Israel, the world’s eighth-largest defence exporter has a dedicated defence exporting agency called SIBAT under its defence ministry. India’s MoD so far has no such dedicated agency to drive exports. Exports are left to individual corporations, like BrahMos or the defence public shipyards and undertakings. India’s private sector defence firms are pretty much on their own. In March 2020, Bharat Electronics Ltd (BEL) bagged a $30 million dollar order to sell four Swathi Weapon Locating Radars to Armenia. For every success story like the BrahMos there are numerous others where Indians firms were missing in action.

Not surprisingly for a system unused to using defence exports as political leverage, the battles for exporting the BrahMos all lay within the Indian system. The sale was initially questioned by the MEA, which evidently was worried it could upset the Chinese government. “The biggest thing was to get our government to grant us export clearance,” says a defence official familiar with the negotiations.

The success in the Philippines, says an official familiar with the deal, was largely the work of two key officials—former BrahMos Aerospace CEO Sudhir Misra and India’s current ambassador to the Philippines, Shambhu Kumaran. Misra, a senior DRDO scientist was BrahMos CEO until last December. It also helped that Kumaran was earlier joint secretary, Planning and International Corporation (PIC), a key MEA post in the MoD to leverage defence cooperation with friendly countries.

A dedicated agency focused only on defence exports would not only onboard scientists like Misra, bureacrats like Kumaran, but also defence industry experts to identify global export opportunities and link them with Indian domestic manufacturers to create global partnerships. It could hand-hold component level manufacturers and help original equipment manufacturers of indigenous weapon systems like warships, missile and artillery systems to identify foreign buyers.

A June 2020 KPMG report titled ‘Defence Exports: Untapped Potential’ makes the case for such a dedicated department. The department would “need to identify existing opportunities, create new horizons, facilitate G2G deals, establish lineages with domestic industry, handhold potential suppliers and establish partnerships”, the report says.

The report recommends a first step of setting up of an exclusive “defence export help desk”. On the basis of inputs from the help-desk, the report says, Indian companies could work with government machinery to realise exports. Indian arms could greatly benefit from a government hand.
 

Lonewolf

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I've seen riots in the early 90s. And that has been my main experience of Hindu Muslim friction. Else at least in Bombay I've never seen much.

And there will always be incidents all across the country. Can't blame 200 million people for that.
And the 200 million are not facing the heat , also of those 20/ million lot of them hate the radicalized section and are quite practical in their analysis , but you want to white wash the radicalization fed to a common person ,then i can't do anything
 

Lonewolf

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Lonewolf

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Modi government has to take responsibility and stop calls for killings with an iron fist. There is no such thing as people react action with an action of their choosing. It is only the government that is licensed to take action. Individuals become criminals if they act on their own.
Exactly , but government becomes communal if they shut down any branch those organization like PFI for their terrorist activities , and it turns to hindu planning genocide , even though PFI had been found training people for armed rebellion and poster of gazwa e hind are recovered time to time ,and modi government didn't interfered in law proceedings , the guy who made comments is under arrest , and court will decide the fate .

But this genocide and all shit is fake , and inverse has happened in past , these are angry rants , don't mean much .

My issue is when muslim do things worse than this ,why tf does nobody care and above that try to white wash as an individual action , instead of totally naked religious motivation visible to all .
 

Zafer

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Exactly , but government becomes communal if they shut down any branch those organization like PFI for their terrorist activities , and it turns to hindu planning genocide , even though PFI had been found training people for armed rebellion and poster of gazwa e hind are recovered time to time ,and modi government didn't interfered in law proceedings , the guy who made comments is under arrest , and court will decide the fate .

But this genocide and all shit is fake , and inverse has happened in past , these are angry rants , don't mean much .

My issue is when muslim do things worse than this ,why tf does nobody care and above that try to white wash as an individual action , instead of totally naked religious motivation visible to all .
Because Muslims are minority by a factor of 1 to 6 and President Modi himself is an extremist Hindu.
Third party observers who predicted Rwanda genocide warns an impending genocidal action against Indian Muslims.
Saying that genocidal progression has telling signs and what is happening in India matches that pattern.
 

Nilgiri

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Because Muslims are minority by a factor of 1 to 6 and President Modi himself is an extremist Hindu.
Third party observers who predicted Rwanda genocide warns an impending genocidal action against Indian Muslims.
Saying that genocidal progression has telling signs and what is happening in India matches that pattern.

you mean Stanton's genocide watch (regd the rwanda genocide that they have extrapolated with much criticism from others regd not sharing their methodology*)?

Stepping aside for a moment all the genocides they have not predicted...(that they dont talk about)...

....What have they said (many times) about Turkey and Erdogan out of interest?

Or then its suddenly not credible?

i.e wrong when they project on Turkey (incl the patterns and levels) but to be taken seriously when they do so on India?

Or they are correct about Turkey too since you say they are correct about India?


=====================

*https://africacheck.org/fact-checks/blog/analysis-genocide-watch-thin-transparency-and-methodology
 

Nilgiri

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Happy Republic day to all Indians and India well-wishers.

🇮🇳 Jai Hind 🇮🇳

The stream of the rajpath parade starts in about 4 hours time and should automatically convert to archive video afterwards:

 

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Happy birthday. Any republic is worth nothing if it isn't formed by democracy. Something that Indians and Turks should remind themselves from time to time.
 

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