Indonesia Indonesian Air Force, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Udara (TNI-AU)

[Mandala]

A cruise missile is basically an aircraft, the fact that were unable to create a working one tells much about our ability to independently design or create a more complex aircraft (read: fighter). The fact that some people would go into the extreme by going against any fighter purchase, give you an idea of the delusion that exist in here. Moreover that delusion comes from a title holder.

And also against FREMM purchase.

 

[Parry Brima]

And so within 2024 or 2025 onward the Air Force should started looking for light aircraft competition program.

T-50 and Tejas would cost pretty much similar ($40 mil/jet). Still think it's too expensive if we want to add 5 more squadrons. Any cheaper alternatives?

 

[R4duga]

T-50 and Tejas would cost pretty much similar ($40 mil/jet). Still think it's too expensive if we want to add 5 more squadrons. Any cheaper alternatives?

L-159 Alca ?

 

[Van Kravchenko]

T-50 and Tejas would cost pretty much similar ($40 mil/jet). Still think it's too expensive if we want to add 5 more squadrons. Any cheaper alternatives?

Do you need me to contact embassy for JF - 17, i think they will very eager to give us US$25 mil per pcs.

I highly doubt you have a contribution (paying much taxes) in such purchase tho. Then enjoy it, cheaper means goes to pocket

 

[Madokafc]

T-50 and Tejas would cost pretty much similar ($40 mil/jet). Still think it's too expensive if we want to add 5 more squadrons. Any cheaper alternatives?

Unfortunately they are already the bottom line of what already the best the market had in light fighter category, unless you are going to find China solution.....

 

[Madokafc]

Or if you want to take a bet, joint the Hurjet program. I heard they want to take Maiden flight this years.

 

[FPXAllen]

I have a mix of suspicion and wishful thinking that someone in the top ranks of our aviation industry and/or related government bodies have seen these two concepts, nodded their head and murmured:

"Hmm, one of these could work..."

KAI Unveils New Version of KFX Fighter

31 Oktober 2013 KAI unveiled a single-engine version of the KFX technology demonstrator at ADEX 2013 in Seoul (photo : Jane's) Korean...

defense-studies.blogspot.com

 

[Madokafc]

I have a mix of suspicion and wishful thinking that someone in the top ranks of our aviation industry and/or related government bodies have seen these two concepts, nodded their head and murmured:

"Hmm, one of these could work..."

KAI Unveils New Version of KFX Fighter

31 Oktober 2013 KAI unveiled a single-engine version of the KFX technology demonstrator at ADEX 2013 in Seoul (photo : Jane's) Korean...

defense-studies.blogspot.com

If they want to take the routes those would defeat the purpose of affordable, cheap in operational light weight fighter, because as far as i know those design are what Lockheed Martin offer to DAPA/KAI side of what high performance single engine fighter with almost similar capability or more than that of F-16 V

 

[Umigami]

I'm assuming that with a goal of procuring several squadrons of new single-engined fighters within a decade after 2025, most of the current offerings will either be: (a.) too technologically old, or (b.) their production lines have already stopped. Since most of the 5th gen jet fighters development projects today are twin-engined, and (assuming) that we still can't or don't want to buy the Su-75 checkmate, our options are very limited in this regard.

So what to do? One possible other option is to start our own lightweight fighter program since we'll have three different turbofans we can choose as its poweplant in our upcoming twin-engined fighter fleets. Sorted from the lightest dry weight, they are: Snecma M88 (897 kg), GE F414-400 (1110 kg), and PW F100-229 (1737 kg).

And, no, in case anyone wonder, I'm not saying that this will be easy for us but at the very least the experience we'll gain in building our own version of KF-21/IFX in-house sometime after 2024 can and should contribute a lot if we choose to take this path.


At first I was confused where did you get the 8 million sq km from, but then I realized that also includes our EEZ. So yeah, it's more or less that much.

Now this should be hammered into the heads of anyone claiming that we don't need more jet fighters with whatever reasons they can come up with. It's simply because no air force in the world can maintain 100% operational readiness at any given time - even the USAF can only achieve about 50% - so those 180 jet fighters are simply not enough to achieve the "minimum essential" amount that we actually need.

Wait, I think we will get GE engine afterall.

We have to pay more for PW integration with Advance Eagle. Maybe that's one of the reason why our Eagle package is pretty expensive.

 

[Umigami]

I have a mix of suspicion and wishful thinking that someone in the top ranks of our aviation industry and/or related government bodies have seen these two concepts, nodded their head and murmured:

"Hmm, one of these could work..."

KAI Unveils New Version of KFX Fighter

31 Oktober 2013 KAI unveiled a single-engine version of the KFX technology demonstrator at ADEX 2013 in Seoul (photo : Jane's) Korean...

defense-studies.blogspot.com

They are going with 2 engine version in the end.

 

[Umigami]

Or if you want to take a bet, joint the Hurjet program. I heard they want to take Maiden flight this years.

Another fighter species
How do we know it's gonna be more cheaper than golden eagle?

 

[Parry Brima]

L-159 Alca ?

Interesting shout. Probably cheaper and NATO friendly. The downside is probably the specs (speed, range, etc).

Unfortunately they are already the bottom line of what already the best the market had in light fighter category, unless you are going to find China solution.....

The latest USAF trainer/LCA project, Boeing T-7A Red Hawk, seems attractive. It's stated in the article below that Boeing got $9.2 bil contract from USAF for 351 aircrafts, 46 simulators, etc. So it's around $27 mil per jet.

Boeing also aim to sell total of 2,600 T-7s, as trainers, light-attack or aggressor aircraft for global market.

Quote : "Boeing notes that many potential sales opportunities for the T-7, as a trainer or combat aircraft, are likely to come from the Asia-Pacific region. “We do see some strong interest in that region,” says Thomas Breckenridge, vice-president of international sales in Boeing’s strike, surveillance and mobility business unit."

US Air Force awards $9B contract to Boeing for next training jet

Boeing’s award for the T-X trainer program marks the third major victory by the company in about a month.

www.defensenews.com

Boeing sees T-7 as combat replacement for Northrop F-5 and Dassault/Dornier Alpha Jet

Boeing has long touted the "growth potential" of the T-7, noting that the jet trainer could be retrofitted with weapons, such as missiles or bombs, to serve as a light attack aircraft.

www.flightglobal.com

 

[FPXAllen]

If they want to take the routes those would defeat the purpose of affordable, cheap in operational light weight fighter, because as far as i know those design are what Lockheed Martin offer to DAPA/KAI side of what high performance single engine fighter with almost similar capability or more than that of F-16 V

However, if they do choose to take this route and commit to it, we'll have a single-engined fighter with a high degree of commonality with our IFX, don't you think? It may become even cheaper to produce and operate in the long run.

Of course the twin tailed one bears too much similarities with the F-35 and as such I don't think Lockheed Martin will be too eager to offer their assistance to us, but the single tailed one seems like it will be a bit more acceptable - not to mention that it will be a lot lighter compared to the twin tailed version.

 

[HellFireIndo]

A cruise missile is basically an aircraft, the fact that were unable to create a working one tells much about our ability to independently design or create a more complex aircraft (read: fighter). The fact that some people would go into the extreme by going against any fighter purchase, give you an idea of the delusion that exist in here. Moreover that delusion comes from a title holder.

Let's clear everything here

We got two extremes, one said cruise missile is more awesome and we can make it, the other said we cannot make cruise missiles and it's a failed project.

Why not get into the middle ground: Even if it's not a cruise missile, it's still a working drone, and as the guy said himself, the thing has been relabeled as a Jalak drone. That should clear it right? No cruise missile, but we still got a drone, and a drone is still functional and is a step forward nonetheless. If for now, they use it as a target drone, then so be it, what's the big deal of being RIBUT about it when they already officially repurposed it? Then we may have an option to develop it further in the manner of Israeli, with their suicide drone, that basically serves the same purpose as a missile, how about that?

Both guys shouldn't be too fixated on such a narrow way of thinking, just because one wants to cancel the opinion of the other in an argument here, doesn't mean you have to "cancel" the R&D establishment also, man they are working their best with what they have.

 

[Umigami]

However, if they do choose to take this route and commit to it, we'll have a single-engined fighter with a high degree of commonality with our IFX, don't you think? It may become even cheaper to produce and operate in the long run.

Of course the twin tailed one bears too much similarities with the F-35 and as such I don't think Lockheed Martin will be too eager to offer their assistance to us, but the single tailed one seems like it will be a bit more acceptable - not to mention that it will be a lot lighter compared to the twin tailed version.

FA50 already has huge commonality with KFX actually. Engine from the same lineage for example.

 

[Madokafc]

It is seems to me more affordable to acquire ready to purchase system already exist in the market, and pursue local assembly agreement and producing fast moving sparepart, as long as we bought it in very large number.

 

[keadno]

Let's clear everything here

We got two extremes, one said cruise missile is more awesome and we can make it, the other said we cannot make cruise missiles and it's a failed project.

Why not get into the middle ground: Even if it's not a cruise missile, it's still a working drone, and as the guy said himself, the thing has been relabeled as a Jalak drone. That should clear it right? No cruise missile, but we still got a drone, and a drone is still functional and is a step forward nonetheless. If for now, they use it as a target drone, then so be it, what's the big deal of being RIBUT about it when they already officially repurposed it? Then we may have an option to develop it further in the manner of Israeli, with their suicide drone, that basically serves the same purpose as a missile, how about that?

Both guys shouldn't be too fixated on such a narrow way of thinking, just because one wants to cancel the opinion of the other in an argument here, doesn't mean you have to "cancel" the R&D establishment also, man they are working their best with what they have.

yes, suicide drones are probably the wisest decision.

 

[Madokafc]

Quite interesting, looking from this points, F15EX is more akin toward fighter bomber aircraft comparable to Su34 but with much higher Air to Air battle performance and complete strike package

 

[Lordimperator]

F15EX is more akin toward fighter bomber aircraft

Wew the payload of F15 EX is beast, more then the predeccesor Tu Badger, even the chinese H6

comparable to Su34

Minus toilet and sleeper in F15

 

[HellFireIndo]

View attachment 40059

Quite interesting, looking from this points, F15EX is more akin toward fighter bomber aircraft comparable to Su34 but with much higher Air to Air battle performance and complete strike package

So F-15EX can basically be a replacement for Tu-16 in the bomber role, that's nice.