Historical Combat, War, Geopolitics History and Analysis

Anmdt

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LOGISTICS LOGISTICS LOGISTICS!!!!!
That is why those mentioned countries, especially US - UK is a bit tedious about their logistic operations via marine routes. Their ships are usually the fastest in the class, travelling above 25 Knots, topping 30 in extremes and off-loading the equipment effectively in shorter spans and getting the vehicles ready to operate of fly.
 

Joe Shearer

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That is why those mentioned countries, especially US - UK is a bit tedious about their logistic operations via marine routes. Their ships are usually the fastest in the class, travelling above 25 Knots, topping 30 in extremes and off-loading the equipment effectively in shorter spans and getting the vehicles ready to operate of fly.
Cargo ships travelling at 25 knots!!!!

I'm sure you know what you're saying, but I'm stunned.

Some modern frigates travel at that speed.
 

Paro

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Cargo ships travelling at 25 knots!!!!

I'm sure you know what you're saying, but I'm stunned.

Some modern frigates travel at that speed.
Yes they travel around 20-25 knots average.

larger the ship further it get pushed with lesser fuel.
 

Anmdt

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Cargo ships travelling at 25 knots!!!!

I'm sure you know what you're saying, but I'm stunned.

Some modern frigates travel at that speed.
US Military Sealift Command has Supply Class, powered by 4 LM2500 diesels and we may guess she tops 30 knots when necessary. These are special ships to deliver anything a warship or base may need.

This is really something to operate vessels of this size (50,000 tonnes, 6 times of a typical destroyer) at those speed regimes. Anything beyond 20 knots becomes slightly unfeasible since they are not equipped with low-speed diesels like commercial liners to maintain a fixed speed but gas turbines to react faster and occupy less space, burning more fuel with high maintenance.
 

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A PC Game with fictional Info-Pak scenario and extremely detailed combat management. I don’t own it though, maybe of interest to @Joe Shearer and @Nilgiri or other interested fellows. Feel free to move to the appropriate section.if it’s not suitable here.
 

Joe Shearer

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A PC Game with fictional Info-Pak scenario and extremely detailed combat management. I don’t own it though, maybe of interest to @Joe Shearer and @Nilgiri or other interested fellows. Feel free to move to the appropriate section.if it’s not suitable here.
Love the idea but I probably shouldn't be spending money on it. Thanks for the heads-up.
 

Nilgiri

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Are you just going to leave this completely out of context, as if the previous 4 years had never happened?
The crimes committed by the germans were manifold worse than what the russians did in retaliation, and this is not debatable.


Without german help and diplomacy, the ottoman empire would have been split into a collection of colonies long before WW1. They were in no position to resist an advanced and capable european army of the day, and their territories would have been stripped away one by one.
It was german assistance that kept the empire going for as long as it did. The fact that germany did not desire colonies in the middle east and Mediterranean, and that Germany became a vital industrial and military partner were what kept the empire functioning.


And they had plans to invade Spain, the UK, Switzerland, Sweden and probably a bunch of other nations. That Turkey was part of that list is nothing special or remarkable.

Turkey joined WW2, right at the end. To get some spoils, and to formally ally with the UK and US, as the soviets were conquering the balkans and not about to go away willy nilly.

Turkey supported the german war effort with enormous amounts of vital chromite resources for the german war industry, from 41 to 44, and they signed a non-aggression pact for ten years 3 days before operation barbarossa began. Don't forget that Turkey profited of the suffering of the soviet people under the german yoke.

-------------------------------

I had to clear a few things up. But this thread is about the Ukraine-Russia War, so let's STAY ON TOPIC.

If folks are interested, we can continue this discussion here....

@what @Ryder @Lool @Huelague @Timur @Ravenman (feel free to tag any others that may be interested....)
 
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Ryder

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Nobody denies German contribution to the Ottomans but dont think it was done out of goodwill.

In the end it was us Turks who fought the numerous fronts in ww1 despite being on our last legs.

Also in the caucasus the Germans tried to block us from Baku.
 

Blackbeardsgoldfish

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Nobody denies German contribution to the Ottomans but dont think it was done out of goodwill.

In the end it was us Turks who fought the numerous fronts in ww1 despite being on our last legs.

Also in the caucasus the Germans tried to block us from Baku.
This needs to be seen in the larger context of the Great War. At this point in 1918, the german spring offensive was on it's last legs, it ran out of steam(that is oil) and failed to achieve it's objectives, only managing to get teasingly close to their goals.

The k.u.k forces also had launched a massive offensive at the Piave, which was stalling and ultimately doomed to failure, but it happened in conjunction with the final effort of the central powers to push the entente past the breaking point.

These two offensives required mobility that wasn't available to the germans and allies, oil was so scarce a resource that it was taken from any source, literally any possible source.

So, desperate times call for desperate measures, and the germans weren't willing to risk the victory in the west, and war overall, when the major source of oil was in the hands of another power, be it friend or foe, and even went so far as to skirmish with ottoman troops in the caucasus over it.

A good video for these events:
 

Huelague

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GermanyA./Hitler has had plans to invade Turkey, because of Oil supply lines in M.E. He was stopped by his generals. Because of...to much resistance ,difficult terrain and a long standing ally.
 

Huelague

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Btw, Germans are to much over hyped in these period. Many European countries were in trouble and lacked in everything. Germany have had enough time to switch the whole economy in war mode. The other European countries were unprepared against "Blitzkrieg" tactic. Not to mention the technology advantage. They have only 3 real enemies, which non of them they could really match. UK, Russia and USA.
 

Nilgiri

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I changed my mind again (heh, this way more members will discuss it I think, compared to a coffee thread).....

I think the germany, turkey, ww1, ww2 stuff can be amply fleshed out in this better thread for it as members would like to.
 

Ravenman

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Btw, Germans are to much over hyped in these period. Many European countries were in trouble and lacked in everything. Germany have had enough time to switch the whole economy in war mode. The other European countries were unprepared against "Blitzkrieg" tactic. Not to mention the technology advantage. They have only 3 real enemies, which non of them they could really match. UK, Russia and USA.

Please, they build a war machine in a decade and trained the best and most disciplined troops. There was no European army who could match them.

Look good at the German soldier from 1942 and compare him with the German soldier from 2022. German soldiers of WW2 era were like fierce Rottweiler dogs ready for actions. Today's Bundeswehr is just like poodle kept for cuddling at home.

They kinda remind me of the ancient Roman/Greek soldiers in a way. Wether you support them or not, they had to be extremely disciplined, hardened fighters.

One myth is that Germans were allowed to rape and plunder as much as they want...false. You'd be sent to a camp or possibly executed.

Allied soldiers were allowed an entire pack of cigarettes a day, German soldiers only 6 a day. NS Germany from 1933-1945 was actually the first nation to speak out on the evils of tobacco and alcohol. Degeneracy and decadency were not tolerated.

I am not a German, but their struggle was everyones struggle. Black, white, Turk, Arab, we all have the same enemy. May the Valkyries lead those German soldiers to Valhalla.
 

Nilgiri

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Please, they build a war machine in a decade and trained the best and most disciplined troops. There was no European army who could match them.

Look good at the German soldier from 1942 and compare him with the German soldier from 2022. German soldiers of WW2 era were like fierce Rottweiler dogs ready for actions. Today's Bundeswehr is just like poodle kept for cuddling at home.

They kinda remind me of the ancient Roman/Greek soldiers in a way. Wether you support them or not, they had to be extremely disciplined, hardened fighters.

One myth is that Germans were allowed to rape and plunder as much as they want...false. You'd be sent to a camp or possibly executed.

Allied soldiers were allowed an entire pack of cigarettes a day, German soldiers only 6 a day. NS Germany from 1933-1945 was actually the first nation to speak out on the evils of tobacco and alcohol. Degeneracy and decadency were not tolerated.

I am not a German, but their struggle was everyones struggle. Black, white, Turk, Arab, we all have the same enemy. May the Valkyries lead those German soldiers to Valhalla.

Bit of a wehrboo huh.
 

Blackbeardsgoldfish

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Please, they build a war machine in a decade and trained the best and most disciplined troops. There was no European army who could match them.
The Wehrmacht build upon multiple things during the 1930s, it was by no means starting anew and rebuilding from scratch. The “Reichswehr” of the Weimar Republic was conceptualized to only allow the best, most competent and most promising soldiers into its ranks. It was build to be an army of officers that would form the nucleus of a new german army once rearmament was possible.

It dictated much of the politics of the Weimar Republic and undermined the democratic process wherever it could. Prussian aristocracy and military tradition embedded themselves covertly into every nook and cranny of the new state, waiting for the right opportunity to give Germany back its military might.

The industry and economic base needed for rearmament was build on completely unsustainable debt. So much debt that wars of conquest were the only possible source of income that could finance it. The Nazis fully knew this during the 1930s and gambled on the success of their future wars. The first “victim” of german conquests was Austria, which was a country with vast gold reserves, possessing 343,8 Million Reichsmark in Gold, compared to Germany’s 188,6 RM at the end of 1936. This doesn’t include the private holdings of Austrians, which were also taken for rearmament once Austria had been absorbed. (Source for my figures, it's in german)
Look good at the German soldier from 1942 and compare him with the German soldier from 2022. German soldiers of WW2 era were like fierce Rottweiler dogs ready for actions. Today's Bundeswehr is just like poodle kept for cuddling at home.
The german soldier of 1942 was trudging around the vastness of Russia or the Libyan desert and quickly becoming exhausted, his stomach grew ever hungrier and his equipment deteriorated from the ever scarcer supply.

The german soldier of 2022 is better equipped in basically every aspect outside ideological conviction, and can rely on a political leadership that doesn’t waste the lives of millions for its delusions. He doesn’t have to go hungry or march into his doom, and he doesn’t have to fear for his safety and life for speaking up against his nation, politics or purpose.

A battalion of 2022 soldiers would be able to face and defeat a division of 1942 soldiers.
They kinda remind me of the ancient Roman/Greek soldiers in a way. Wether you support them or not, they had to be extremely disciplined, hardened fighters.
Yes, that’s why they ridiculed italian soldiers during the entire war, and even took them prisoner in the millions as yet another enslaved labor force. And the greeks had their villages wiped out as retaliatory measures, while they were starving in the hundreds of thousands from a german made famine. Greek partisans, those descendants of the brave, hardened and disciplined fighters, were murdered in the tens of thousands by the german soldiers that apparently are equally admirable, according to you.

And regarding the greek and roman soldiers of their respective time periods, whatever romanticized picture you hold of them, revise it.
One myth is that Germans were allowed to rape and plunder as much as they want...false. You'd be sent to a camp or possibly executed.
Where did you hear that myth from? To me it seems that they’d get sent to camps or shot is the actual myth, with all the raping and looting that the Wehrmacht did in Russia, Poland, the Balkans and western Europe and got away with unscathed.
Allied soldiers were allowed an entire pack of cigarettes a day, German soldiers only 6 a day. NS Germany from 1933-1945 was actually the first nation to speak out on the evils of tobacco and alcohol. Degeneracy and decadency were not tolerated.
Yes, degeneracy and decadency weren’t allowed, which is exactly why the german soldiers were all drugged out of their minds when they went into battle. Pervitin was a harmless mood lightener, it didn’t turn the german soldier into a junkie at all, never.
I am not a German, but their struggle was everyones struggle. Black, white, Turk, Arab, we all have the same enemy. May the Valkyries lead those German soldiers to Valhalla.
You’re not german, which is exactly why you shouldn’t be defending, let alone admiring them. As someone who had multiple members of their family fight and die in that war, I don’t find myself feeling any sympathy for their fight, let alone calling them heroes. That whole valkyrie valhalla nazi lunacy crap was the last drop, I fully agree with @Nilgiri here, you are more than just a bit of a wehraboo.
 

Nilgiri

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If this is your only form of argumentation then close this topic.

Why would I close the topic?

We need not engage each other, far more simpler.

I have some measure of history coming across folks like you....wehraboo is actually being polite.

In fact I have explored alongside some such folks (biting my lip a real long while for it and indulging them), just to see where their thinking/delusion originated.

i.e Those that pick and choose selectively from this smorgasbord:

- Clean wehrmacht fallacy
- Wehrmacht exceptionalism, Nazi Germany exceptionalism
- Holocaust denial, holocaust minimalism

and whatever else that is picked and stitched together with this crap.

Large parts of this (especially how this thinking among the Germans themselves during the time period led to their defeat in end).... have already been addressed in this thread already :


I post it more for anyone else interested to read it, as I see no need to re-hash it all for you.

This is peak delusion after all:

"I am not a German, but their struggle was everyones struggle. Black, white, Turk, Arab, we all have the same enemy. May the Valkyries lead those German soldiers to Valhalla."
 
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