China South-China-Sea

[xizhimen]

Because this :

Institutional memory - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Your PLA simply doesn't have enough of it.


Sick or not, PLA STILL lacks these.

Institutional memory - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

lOl, Douglas MacArthur used to believe the same. even when US GDP accounted for 52% of the world total and China's was negligible, but in today's world, China's real GDP had already surpassed US, what US can't do 70 years ago, is more unlike to achieve today.

 

[Gary]

lOl, Douglas MacArthur used to believe the same. even when US GDP accounts for 52% of the world total and China's was negligible, but in today's world, China's real GDP had already surpassed US, what US can't do 70 years ago, is more unlike to achieve today.

So what has this post has anything to do with this.

Institutional memory - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[xizhimen]

So what has this post has anything to do with this.

Institutional memory - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

What is it? I was talking about navy buildup and south China sea.

 

[Gary]

What is it? I

Off course you don't know, that explains why you keep derailing the topics.

Now I'm going to repeat the question one more time.

What kind of institutional memories your PLA have that gives you the conclusion that your China won't repeat the mistakes of the Beiyang fleet of Qing.

 

[xizhimen]

Since US navy didn't dare to directly take on Chinese navy for its ally in 1974, what make people believe they would risk their neck in SCS today?

The South Vietnamese fleet also received warnings that U.S. Navy radar had detected additional Chinese guided missile frigates and aircraft on their way from Hainan.

South Vietnam requested assistance from the U.S. Seventh Fleet, but the request was denied.

Battle of the Paracel Islands - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[xizhimen]

Off course you don't know, that explains why you keep derailing the topics.

Now I'm going to repeat the question one more time.

What kind of institutional memories your PLA have that gives you the conclusion that your China won't repeat the mistakes of the Beiyang fleet of Qing.

Comparing today's Chinese navy with Beiyang which was a totally foreign bought assets is utterly meaningless. Now we build our own weapons and integrate everything in our own system from the space, to the land, to the bottom of the oceans , we don't have foreign coaches aboard every ship that Beiyang bought from the west to teach farmers how to operate everything, we have numerous PLA navy college in various coastal cities.


Chinese Navy Submarine Academy Qingdao, promo video to attract Chinese young talents to apply to the school and devote their lives in the submarine career

 

[Gary]

Comparing today's Chinese navy with Beiyang which a totally foreign bought assets is utterly meaningless. Now we built our own weapons and integrate the everything in our own system , we don't have foreign coaches aboard every ship that Beiyang bought from the west to teach farmers how to operate everything, we have numerous PLA navy college in various coastal cities.

Ahh yes keep repeating the same mistake by being unable to differentiate between advances in construction and operators proficiency.

So I'm going to keep it simple.

Put Xizhimen in a 1000cc Ducati Panigale and ask him to race Pedrosa on the same bike. Who will win eventually?

 

[xizhimen]

Ahh yes keep repeating the same mistake by being unable to differentiate between advances in construction and operators proficiency.

So I'm going to keep it simple.

Put Xizhimen in a 1000cc Ducati Panigale and ask him to race Pedrosa on the same bike. Who will win eventually?

But your comparison is all wrong, even US themselves don't believe there is any comparison between Beiyang fleet of Qing dynasty and today's Chinese navy, it's a total joke.

 

[xizhimen]

I don't know why you are so confident and positive about US navy, but they themselves don't

US ‘can’t win’ war over Taiwan: Biden ‘ought to be very careful’ what he says next

US President Joe Biden "ought to be very careful" what he says next over Taiwan because China takes the situation very seriously, says Curtin University Political Analyst Prof Joe Siracusa. It comes as President Biden last week said America would intervene and defend Taiwan if the Chinese...

www.skynews.com.au

TRT World

Breaking news, live coverage, opinions, features, in-depth analysis and videos from TRT World, 24/7.

www.trtworld.com

 

[Gary]

we don't have foreign coaches aboard every ship that Beiyang bought from the west to teach farmers how to operate everything, we have numerous PLA navy college in various coastal cities.

Even worse, what is China's PLA academy analogue to John Boyd, Alfred Thayer Mahan, Elmo Zumwalt or Clausewitz, That put so much confidence in you for the PLA ? I'm curious

But your comparison is all wrong, even US themselves don't believe there is any comparison between Beiyang fleet of Qing dynasty and today's Chinese navy, it's a total joke.

Off course at the very least the Beiyang fleet has those foreign instructors to teach

 

[xizhimen]

Even worse, what is China's PLA academy analogue to John Boyd, Alfred Thayer Mahan, Elmo Zumwalt or Clausewitz, That put so much confidence in you for the PLA ? I'm curious


Off course at the very least the Beiyang fleet has those foreign instructors to teach you.

I m not a navy man so i honestly don't know much about what you are talking about, but I guess US navy they themselves know. besides, Since US navy didn't dare to directly take on Chinese navy for its ally in 1974, what makes you believe they would risk their neck in SCS today?

 

[Viva_vietnamm]

As my flag shows, I am a German national.


Actually for someone being so eager (nothing wrong) to post on this topic - you should know that the 9-dash aka 11-dash line was instituted in the late 1920's by the KMT (ROC) government. So naturally it won't show up in a Ming or Qing map.

However there are hundreds of documents/maps from the Ming dynasty onward (also from before) that clearly show numerous islands in the South-China-Sea to be discovered, settled, and claimed by the respective Chinese Dynasties.
Of all the today's claimant states - only China, Brunei and Japan existed as sovereign nations during the Ming or Qing dynasty. e.g. Vietnam was still made of separate kingdoms and Dai-Viet were in Vassal status to Ming China. There was no unified Vietnam or a nation termed Vietnam before Ming or Qing China to lay any claims towards the South China Sea that would or have been recognized by any Chinese government or respective Dynasty.

It was Mao who voluntarily reduced the KMT 11-dash line to a 9-dash line - via acquitting the Golf of Tonking to his communist ally Vietnam.

Indonesia, Malaysia, and the Philippines were split into dozens of independent kingdoms and fiefs - they never constituted a unified nation before gaining independence from their colonial masters - who simply drew up borders to their own liking. And as such ignoring previous Chinese claims. Simply we have the power and the ships - so China, we don't care about your protests. (sounds familiar?).

Due to overwhelming odds in favor of a Qing fleet - the Dutch decided to retreat from the Parcel islands upon being informed by the Chinese side that these Islands belong to China.
So the Dutch found it wise to retreat to their port of Tainan and never came back. It is the only such encounter that I am aware of.

As such there is abundant historical evidence that large parts of the South-China-Sea and it's island's had been claimed by China - before the first European land grabbers showed up.

However the PRC agreed to the UNCLUS statutory (being a signatory) - which does not behold a 9-dash line.

Therefore my personal opinion is that the claimant parties would be better off to find a diplomatic solution.

Of course there is NO diplomatic solution for the problems in SCS(east VN sea) when VN want to take ALL islands . Its just like there were NO diplomatic solution for VN war against France and US and the only choice for France and US is to surrender and withdraw from VN.

CN army is just a joke, they can't fight in the real battle, they willing to surrender before firing a single shoot like when they surrender in 1979 battle. Its explain why small country like Japan could invade big CN and occupied Nanjing easily cos CN soldiers is just good at surrender.

104 Chinese soldiers surrendering at the Cao Bang town, without firing a single bullet

So, its just the matter of time for VN to take back all lost islands , specially when CN is in big trouble under US's sanction , bro

 

[xizhimen]

Of course there is NO diplomatic solution for the problems in SCS(east VN sea) when VN want to take ALL islands . Its just like there were NO diplomatic solution for VN war against France and US and the only choice for France and US is to surrender and withdraw from VN.

CN army is just a joke, they can't fight in the real battle, they willing to surrender before firing a single shoot like when they surrender in 1979 battle. Its explain why small country like Japan could invade big CN and occupied Nanjing easily cos CN soldiers is just good at surrender.

104 Chinese soldiers surrendering at the Cao Bang town, without firing a single bullet

I don't know how many times you have to post this troll piece, I have many photos showing endless columns of Vietnamese POWs escorted by PLA , but I don't like to post them here to troll, but if you insist to see, I can do.

Facts and figures painted a different story from yours, we exchanged POWs after the war, those numbers were registered by both government and can not be faked.

"The Chinese held 1,636 Vietnamese prisoners and the Vietnamese held 238 Chinese prisoners; they were exchanged in May–June 1979."

 

[Viva_vietnamm]

I guess you conveniently missed out the main fact here, Qing didn't have any industrial base and all it's ships were bought from the west, Qing can not even make a screw, fast forward to the present time, China is the world biggest industrial and manufacturing nation, produces 60% of the world total steel, as the world biggest shipbuilder, Chinese navy ships now are all being built by herself, Chinese shipbuilding capability can easily allow China to outbuild anyone in a very short time frame, it's reported that now, on average, China finishes one big naval battle ship every single month.

SCS( east VN sea) is not an ocean, big ships will be sunk by anti-ship missile easier. Thats why CN navy had to withdraw in the conflict and make the World laugh at how idiot CN's naval force is .

Casualties and losses
Strength
Units involved
Belligerents
Hai Yang Shi You 981 standoff
Part of South China Sea disputes
P1 Rig location of Hai Yang Shi You 981 (position 1 [P1]: date set May 2; position 2 [P2]: date set May 27)
Date May 1, 2014 - July 16, 2014 Location Waters near South China Sea, southern region Paracel Islands 15°29′58″N 111°12′01″ECoordinates: 15°29′58″N 111°12′01″E Result China withdrew the oil rig
China	Vietnam
People's Liberation Army Navy China National Offshore Oil Corporation China Maritime Safety Administration China Coast Guard China Fisheries Law Enforcement Command Civilian and fishing boats	Vietnam People's Navy (indirect engagement) Vietnam Coast Guard Vietnam Fisheries Resources Surveillance Civilian and fishing boats
1 drilling platform, 6 warships, 40 coast guard vessels, over 30 transport ships and tugboats, 34-40 ironclad fishing boats, Su-27[citation needed] and Shaanxi Y-8 patrol planes[1]	60 vessels: coast guard, fisheries surveillance and wooden fishing boats[1][2]
None	1 fishing boat sunk[3]

Hai Yang Shi You 981 standoff - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Viva_vietnamm]

I don't know how many times you have to post this troll piece, I have many photos showing endless columns of Vietnamese POWs escorted by PLA , but I don't like to post them here to troll, but if you insist to see, I can do.

Facts and figures painted a different story from yours, we exchanged POWs after the war, those numbers were registered by both government and can not be faked.

Do I have to say again and again that VN men fired to the last bullet before surrender while CN men quicly surrender without firing a single bullet ?? and thats not propaganda, thats the Fact during VN-CN war.

 

[xizhimen]

Do I have to say again and again that VN men fired to the last bullet before surrender while CN men quicly surrender without firing a single bullet ?? and thats not propaganda, thats the Fact during VN-CN war.

Do you know every country has such "heroic stories" to tell their public, we are not kids, aren't we?

 

[Viva_vietnamm]

Since US navy didn't dare to directly take on Chinese navy for its ally in 1974, what make people believe they would risk their neck in SCS today?

Battle of the Paracel Islands - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

US didn't dare to directly take on Chinese navy for its ally in 1974 cos she knew S.VN would lose the war soon, and she also didn't want to see communist VN to control 80 % of SCS (east VN sea ) like this picture.

This map look worse enough if VN cover the sea with sea mines

 

[xizhimen]

SCS( east VN sea) is not an ocean, big ships will be sunk by anti-ship missile easier. Thats why CN navy had to withdraw in the conflict and make the World laugh at how idiot CN's naval force is .

Hai Yang Shi You 981 standoff
Belligerents
Units involved
Strength
Casualties and losses
Part of South China Sea disputes
P1 Rig location of Hai Yang Shi You 981 (position 1 [P1]: date set May 2; position 2 [P2]: date set May 27)
Date May 1, 2014 - July 16, 2014 Location Waters near South China Sea, southern region Paracel Islands 15°29′58″N 111°12′01″ECoordinates: 15°29′58″N 111°12′01″E Result China withdrew the oil rig
China	Vietnam
People's Liberation Army Navy China National Offshore Oil Corporation China Maritime Safety Administration China Coast Guard China Fisheries Law Enforcement Command Civilian and fishing boats	Vietnam People's Navy (indirect engagement) Vietnam Coast Guard Vietnam Fisheries Resources Surveillance Civilian and fishing boats
1 drilling platform, 6 warships, 40 coast guard vessels, over 30 transport ships and tugboats, 34-40 ironclad fishing boats, Su-27[citation needed] and Shaanxi Y-8 patrol planes[1]	60 vessels: coast guard, fisheries surveillance and wooden fishing boats[1][2]
None	1 fishing boat sunk[3]

Hai Yang Shi You 981 standoff - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Standing offs are not wars, China has standoffs with US repeatedly, as for sea battles, China only fought sea battles with Vietnam twice, in 1974 and 1988, we all know the results.

 

[Viva_vietnamm]

Do you know every country has such "heroic stories" to tell their public, we are not kids, aren't we?

Then prove that your men will not surrender without firing a single bullet by attacking VN without help from daddy JP-US like in 1979.

If CN dare not, then everyone will realize CN soldiers are coward, surrender without firing a single bullet

 

[Viva_vietnamm]

Standing offs are not wars, China has standoffs with US repeatedly, as for sea battles, China only fought sea battles with Vietnam twice, in 1974 and 1988, we all know the results.

Thats tks for the help from daddy JP-US , not mentioning VN was busy expanding power to the West by wiping out CN's ally, Pol Pot, in Cambodia. Try to attack VN again when CN doesn't have support from daddy JP-US if u think CN still can win.