How Emmanuel Macron wants to retaliate against Erdogan

Xenon54

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Things are expected to escalate between France and Turkey after the new Charlie Hebdo cover with Erdogan on the front page... I won't post it here.

The Turkish deputy minister of tourism and culture insults Charlie Hebdo in French....

I guess their sales dropped recently so they resort to provocations again, i see neither a satire nor comedy in this, only thing i see is pure provocation.
I dont care about Erdogan, i insulted him myself enough times but seeing Charlie Hebdo capitalizing on provocations and intentionally triggering emotional reactions is just digusting in my opinion.
I just hope my country men in France dont fall into the trap set by French Goverment and Media.
 

Vergennes

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I guess their sales dropped recently so they resort to provocations again, i see neither a satire nor comedy in this, only thing i see is pure provocation.
I dont care about Erdogan, i insulted him myself enough times but seeing Charlie Hebdo capitalizing on provocations and intentionally triggering emotional reactions is just digusting in my opinion.
I just hope my country men in France dont fall into the trap set by French Goverment and Media.

Charlie Hebdo is known for provocation,that was the reason if its "success",it isn't made for everyone for sure. BTW,I don't read it and there were many covers I didn't like,but I still maintain the right of freedom of expression for them and the entire press.
 

Xenon54

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Charlie Hebdo is known for provocation,that was the reason if its "success",it isn't made for everyone for sure. BTW,I don't read it and there were many covers I didn't like,but I still maintain the right of freedom of expression for them and the entire press.
Just to clarify from the beginning, i do not support censorship but i do believe that some topics should remain untouched for the sake of greater good and exactly that is the reason that even France that holds freedom of expression in such a high regard does indeed limit it sometimes when its about certain topics.
Like for exsample i do not think that the events of 1915 in regards of Armenians was a genocide per-se simply because there is not enought evidence for it and is rather a political tool to put pressure on Turkey. But i am not allowed to say this in France even thought EHRC has ruled that it is indeed my right to express my opinion about this topic.

European Rights Court Says Turk Had Right To Deny Armenian Genocide


I just dont understand what France is trying to archieve with such provocations.
 
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adenl

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I don't know what to think of the French-Turkish relations. One day it seems they are improving and the next day they are fighting again. Birth pangs of a more equal relationship (Turkey getting its rightful place in geopolitics) or a heading towards the wall at 200mph?
 

Vergennes

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Just to clarify from the beginning, i do not support censorship but i do believe that some topics should remain untouched for the sake of greater good and exactly that is the reason that even France that holds freedom of expression in such a high regard does indeed limit it sometimes when its about certain topics.
Like for exsample i do not think that the events of 1915 in regards of Armenians was a genocide per-se simply because there is not enought evidence for it and is rather a political tool to put pressure on Turkey. But i am not allowed to say this in France even thought EHRC has ruled that it is indeed my right to express my opinion about this topic.

European Rights Court Says Turk Had Right To Deny Armenian Genocide


I just dont understand what France is trying to archieve with such provocations.

I might not get "liked" for what I'll say,but I fully support harsh freedom of expression without any restrictions in public and private places,no matter if it is considered as negationism,racism,hate,religious extremism,blasphemy,apostasy and what not....

Nowadays what's considered as freedom of expression and not is being set by politicians for whatever their goals and interests are.
 

Kaptaan

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It took Europe nearly 2,000 years of Anti-Semetism [lest we forget this term was coined for the cultural, religious, political, institutional hatred of the "Jew". Various works of European literature are laced with Anti-Semetism. This whole hatred and failure between the Jews and European Christians cultures finally climaxed in the greatest horror, greatest barbarity and savagery in recorded human history when over 6 million people weree exterminated for being Jew. Today after this bloodbath we see a accord in what is no called "Judo-Christian" civilization.

I just hope we see a similiar accord arise between the two and third branch of the Abraham faiths - Islam. But hopefully without 6 million deaths.
 

bsruzm

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France is also acting for its interests and doesn't consider Turkey as an ally,more like an opponent and a threat,the reason it is trying to contain it and its growing influence even in "Turkey's backyard" as you call it.

I have always believed there will be a confrontation between our two countries,it isn't a matter of ifs but a matter of when,where and by which intensity.
:)
 

Xenon54

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I might not get "liked" for what I'll say,but I fully support harsh freedom of expression without any restrictions in public and private places,no matter if it is considered as negationism,racism,hate,religious extremism,blasphemy,apostasy and what not....

Nowadays what's considered as freedom of expression and not is being set by politicians for whatever their goals and interests are.
Well thats my point, you either have freedom of expression or you only have it on whatever you think its fine to have.
 

Kaptaan

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I might not get "liked" for what I'll say,but I fully support harsh freedom of expression without any restrictions in public and private places,no matter if it is considered as negationism,racism,hate,religious extremism,blasphemy,apostasy and what not....

Nowadays what's considered as freedom of expression and not is being set by politicians for whatever their goals and interests are.
Unfortunately my dear friend liberty has limits and often is trammeled. As a Frenchman I dare you to deny the Holocaust.

The Gayssot Act or Gayssot Law (French: Loi Gayssot), enacted on 13 July 1990, makes it an offense in France to question the existence or size of the category of crimes against humanity as defined in the London Charter of 1945, on the basis of which Nazi leaders were convicted by the International Military Tribunal at ...

All thoughts, thinking and beliefs are equal but some thoughts, thinking and beliefs are MORE equal.

Meaning you can stand on top of Eiffel Tower and decry existence of Muhammed but try decry the Holocaust and you will have ... Mmm Inspector Clouseu arresting you.
 

Barry

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1. France only did that after an psychopath murdered his teacher.

2. Muslims have murdered millions of other Muslims too. Somehow we forget that. The biggest threat to Muslims comes from other Muslims, don't forget that.

3. All Muslims around the world must learn to avoid reacting with violence. Needless insulting of someone's holy figures is bad, but so is reacting with violence. Its simply unacceptable.

4. Muslims can work to fix their own societies, economies and political systems so that they don't lag behind so much, rather than nonsense boycotts for shitty cartoons which achieve nothing at all.

See you type like every Muslim is accountable for every other Muslim's actions.
 

Inspector_spacetime

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I might not get "liked" for what I'll say,but I fully support harsh freedom of expression without any restrictions in public and private places,no matter if it is considered as negationism,racism,hate,religious extremism,blasphemy,apostasy and what not....

Nowadays what's considered as freedom of expression and not is being set by politicians for whatever their goals and interests are.
I agree with the second paragraph. Freedom of speech argument is being used to push various agenda's and narratives of various interest groups around the world in order to mislead people (manufactering consent).

Though I do agree with the support of freedom of speech, there should also be ethics and the simple act of acting responsible when it comes to media. What we see from the media today is pure lies. Media in general needs an overhall where ethics and responsibility should come first. This isn't a new thing by the way, ever since its inception the media has been used like this. Argument's like freedom of speech which have become especially popular in the recent decade has been been used as an excuse to preserve the current level (or lack thereof) and keep on manipulating and uniforming the average person. This problem exists in the whole world by the way, not just France, Europe or Turkey. I heard this from Denzel Washington in an interview: "If you don't read the newspaper you're uninformed. If you do read it you're misinformed." In both cases we are at a disadvantage.

If you call me someting, to which I respond is insulting to me and ask not to do it again. Is it sill allright if you continue with it? If you do continue with it then do you still have the right to act like the victim if I do lash out in some way shape or form? Muslims voiced their displeasure to these cartoons when they were first aired in Denmark. When they were re-aired in France, then the fault also belongs to those that aired them and the consequences are theirs to bear. Yes, the thief is at fault, but so to does the fault belong to the person that didn't lock his door. If that makes sense.

We got to understand that there are millions, even billions of people. Not everyone is going to act the same way. It would be irrational to think that everyone will act the same way. And out of all these people the likelyhood of there being outliers is always a posibility, there could always be an individual reacting in an extreme way. As a rational and responsible person/journalist, they must be aware of this and act accordingly. Even still, purely out of consideration for their fellow man and their feeling and emotions, they should've refrained from publishing those cartoons. Freedom of speech sure, but not at the cost of acting responsible and taking responsibility.
 

Ryder

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How hard is it to Muslims to express their free speech by protesting peacefully everytime this happens you always have assholes and opportunists who use protests as a way to spread chaos, rioting or looting.
 

AzeriTank

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Charlie Hebdo is known for provocation,that was the reason if its "success",it isn't made for everyone for sure. BTW,I don't read it and there were many covers I didn't like,but I still maintain the right of freedom of expression for them and the entire press.
one question, are they able to do the same for jews? answer is no. the question is where is your right of freedom then???
 

AzeriTank

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Just to clarify from the beginning, i do not support censorship but i do believe that some topics should remain untouched for the sake of greater good and exactly that is the reason that even France that holds freedom of expression in such a high regard does indeed limit it sometimes when its about certain topics.
Like for exsample i do not think that the events of 1915 in regards of Armenians was a genocide per-se simply because there is not enought evidence for it and is rather a political tool to put pressure on Turkey. But i am not allowed to say this in France even thought EHRC has ruled that it is indeed my right to express my opinion about this topic.

European Rights Court Says Turk Had Right To Deny Armenian Genocide


I just dont understand what France is trying to archieve with such provocations.
This video simply tells everything...
 

Vergennes

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one question, are they able to do the same for jews? answer is no. the question is where is your right of freedom then???

Yes they did many times in the past,presenting Hitler on their front pages,mocking the shoah and what not. It provoked outrage but it wasn't censured as far as I'm aware.

Just an exemple ;

s-l400.jpg


"Enfin on peut le dire Hitler,super sympa" = "Finally we can say it,Hitler is really nice".
"Salut les youpins" = Salut means hello/Hi,youpin is a vulgar slang and racially offensive term to refer to jews.
"ça gaze" = In normal terms mean "how are you,how are things going",however it has a pun because gaze/gaz = Gas,you got it.

Just one among others.
 

Waz

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There isn’t much France can do. Nations have their hands full with Covid and economic issues. A country would be foolish to engage in confrontation.
Aside that France’s capability to hurt Turkey is limited. However if it ropes in Arab partners then it’s different, but remember this all stems from faith and identity politics. This rules the Arabs out due to their populations being furious with France.
 

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