Live Conflict Ukraine-Russia War

Jagdflieger

Contributor
Messages
496
Reactions
282
Nation of residence
China
Nation of origin
Germany
Aviation

By the start of its aggressive campaign against Ukraine, Russia had 900−1,000 fighters, fighter-bombers, bombers and attack aircraft. Of these, more than 130 Sukhoi Su-30M2 / Su-30SM fighters, 97 Su-35 fighters and 124 Su-34 fighter-bombers were delivered during the 2010s, more than 350 aircraft in total. Thus, at the peak of its financial and industrial capabilities, Russia was producing an average of 30−35 military aircraft a year.
It would take far too much time and detail to reply to your post in full, so I will just restrict it to "Aviation"

The main issue/problem with many authors (who try to portray Russia's potential negative) - resort to all kind of way's to "support" their own view. Instead of being neutral and simply objective to the actual facts.

Russia in February 2022 accounted (according to public figures) for 1500 fighter/ground attack aircraft - so this 900-1000 figure is already off by 50%+
Regarding the production average of 30-35 fighter/strike-fighter aircraft/year - what about the fighter/strike-fighter aircraft produced and sold to other countries from 2010-2022?

2010-2022 wasn't at the peak of Russia's financial and economic capabilities at all. A peak was only in 2011-2014. From 2015-2022 the GDP on average was the same as in 2008.
Sanctions - what influence they might really have, no one knows - it's just individual/personal assumptions, since it is known that Russia's lack in quality and technology has existed since the 60's onward. So it would be fair to assume that the present problems and those from 2022 onward are the same as those before.any sanctions were enacted in 2015 and 2022.
 
Last edited:

Mailman

Active member
Messages
99
Reactions
183
Nation of residence
Estonia
Nation of origin
Estonia
location afte

It would take far too much time and detail to reply to your post in full, so I will just restrict it to "Aviation"

The main issue/problem with many authors (who try to portray Russia's potential negative - resort to all kind of way's to "support" their own view. Instead of being neutral and simply objective to the actual facts.

Russia in February 2022 accounted (according to public figures) for 1500 fighter/ground attack aircraft - so this 900-1000 figure is already off by 50%+
Regarding the production average of 30-35 fighter/strike-fighter aircraft/year - what about the fighter/strike-fighter aircraft produced and sold to other countries from 2010-2022?

2010-2022 wasn't at the peak of Russia's financial and economic capabilities at all. A peak was only in 2011-2014. From 2015-2022 the GDP on average was the same as in 2008.
Sanctions - what influence they might really have, no one knows - it's just individual/personal assumptions, since it is known that Russia's lack in quality and technology has existed since the 60's onward. So it would be fair to assume that the present problems and those from 2022 onward are the same as those before.any sanctions were enacted in 2015 and 2022.
Is there any public source to back up these claims or does this just fall under the almighty "military argument" category?
 

Mailman

Active member
Messages
99
Reactions
183
Nation of residence
Estonia
Nation of origin
Estonia
U. claims they are destroying up to 17 Russian ammo depo's per week. Some examples:
https://t.me/dumskaya_net/40297
https://t.me/informnapalm/10198
https://t.me/voynareal/27362
https://t.me/Pravda_Gerashchenko/29918
https://t.me/nexta_live/32064

A small example of U. helo's attacking R. positions somewhere in Ukraine. It seems I have been a bit early to call the end of aerial operations in U.

Russian volunteers from "Кастусь Каліноўска" using ATG "Milan" in battle

Azerbaijan analyst estimation of R. tank reserves:
"According to the expert, Russia's opportunities are melting away daily. Enemy equipment is enough to compensate for losses within 1-2 months."
 
E

Era_shield

Guest
Is there any public source to back up these claims or does this just fall under the almighty "military argument" category?
AlphaMike linked to the International Institute for Strategic Studies to back up his numbers, and in response that Marxist clown regurgitated unsourced Russian government figures which, even if cited correctly, are widely considered to be exaggerated. This is the same guy who's been chiding everyone for not sourcing claims. Absolute clown.
 

Gary

Experienced member
Messages
8,361
Reactions
22 12,853
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
It would take far too much time and detail to reply to your post in full, so I will just restrict it to "Aviation"

The main issue/problem with many authors (who try to portray Russia's potential negative - resort to all kind of way's to "support" their own view. Instead of being neutral and simply objective to the actual facts.

Russia in February 2022 accounted (according to public figures) for 1500 fighter/ground attack aircraft - so this 900-1000 figure is already off by 50%+
Regarding the production average of 30-35 fighter/strike-fighter aircraft/year - what about the fighter/strike-fighter aircraft produced and sold to other countries from 2010-2022?

2010-2022 wasn't at the peak of Russia's financial and economic capabilities at all. A peak was only in 2011-2014. From 2015-2022 the GDP on average was the same as in 2008.
Sanctions - what influence they might really have, no one knows - it's just individual/personal assumptions, since it is known that Russia's lack in quality and technology has existed since the 60's onward. So it would be fair to assume that the present problems and those from 2022 onward are the same as those before.any sanctions were enacted in 2015 and 2022.
actually I'm bit different when it comes to the narrative that Russia can no longer build anything because of sanctions. Its more like how fast Russia could replenish their losses with the production capacity they has now ? How many tanks, missiles, bombs etc Russia could produce in a year.

Recently I read this interesting commentaries that countries should prepare for a long war, whomever has the more resource wins. This war will be a contest between Russian arms industry against Ukraine's donor willingness to continue arms supply.


When it comes to donors, recently @Blackbeardsgoldfish shared a bleak picture of (in this case) Germany's lost art of mass arms production and self defeating bureaucracy in arms procurement.


But I'm still confident that Europe and West in general will not let Russia out produce their supply to Ukraine. Romania reportedly re-started production of Soviet 152mm rounds for use by the AFU.
 

Mailman

Active member
Messages
99
Reactions
183
Nation of residence
Estonia
Nation of origin
Estonia
AlphaMike linked to the International Institute for Strategic Studies to back up his numbers, and in response that Marxist clown regurgitated unsourced Russian government figures which, even if cited correctly, are widely considered to be exaggerated. This is the same guy who's been chiding everyone for not sourcing claims. Absolute clown.
Mmmm... not necessarily a clown, but definitely not the sharpest pencil on the box. The guy who needs to be told what to say or what to think. Brags about his lack of knowledge regarding history, so a good example of Chinese chauvinism. Only China has some meaningful history to share, the rest of it is insignificant, right?

Saying so, China's history is long and impressive. It is not known much, but China was on the edge of the industrial revolution somewhere around 1000 AD. Southern Song scientists advanced the state of world knowledge about the geography of the empire and of the world, astronomy, magnetism and the compass, mechanical engineering, architecture, chemistry, and other subjects. Gunpowder was invented then and there, by the way. So it is fascinating to think about where we would be if the Chinese would have been able to continue this initiative. Space trips 700 years earlier? Probably we would be inhabitating other planets by now...
 

Gary

Experienced member
Messages
8,361
Reactions
22 12,853
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
The sound of russian ammo blowing up in Donetsk.

What does this mean for russian logistics?
A thread 🧵:

Since 2014-15 russia built dozens of ammo dumps hidden in civilian buildings near railway stations in the parts of Ukraine it occupies.

1/n

russian logistics depots are always close to railways as russia's military has a serious lack of logistic units, especially transport units.

This is compounded by russia's military being corrupt and technologically backwards, even eschewing things like forklifts or cranes.

2/n

So russian supplies and ammo are loaded by hand onto trains, transported towards the front, unloaded there by hand, loaded onto trucks by hand, and then driven to the frontline units, where it is unloaded again by hand.

It's time consuming. No other army is so backwards.

3/n

So how did russian ammo supply in Donbas work until Ukraine received M142 HIMARS with long-range GMLRS rockets and highly accurate PzH 2000, AHS Krab, and CAESAR self-propelled howitzers?

Well:
1) in russia 2,000 to 4,000 of tons of ammo were loaded onto a train

4/n
2) the train entered Ukraine, stopped at various points 30-40 km from the front, ammo was unloaded and stored nearby
3) then frontline units sent their trucks to pick up the ammo they needed

The same applied for fuel, spares, food, etc.

5/n
So dependent are the russians on railways that they have 28,500 railway troops tasked with repairing and building railways.

Like i.e. this bridge they built over the Oskil river to supply their planned upcoming offensive from Izium towards Sloviansk.

6/n

When russia's military can't access railways then its entire logistics system collapses.
The russian advance East of Kyiv failed when the russians couldn't capture the railways passing through Chernihiv and Sumy oblasts. With cities like Nizhyn, Chernihiv and Sumy stubbornly

7/n
defended by Ukrainian troops, russia had to truck its supplies to its troops East of Kyiv... and that failed spectacularly, as russian troops can't move more than 90-100 km from their supply depots and at that range russia can only supply its units for defensive operations.

8/n
The distance from railways in russia to Brovary outside Kyiv is 350 km... 300 km of which were swarming with Ukrainian special forces and partisans looking to blow up russian supply columns (photo).

Now in Donbas, Kherson, Zaporizhzhia russia can supply its troops by train.

9/n Image
This allows russia to bring forward the 10,000s of tons of artillery ammo it expends every week; and send the replacement tanks, howitzers, etc. needed to replace russia's immense material losses, and the needed fuel.

But now the russian ammo depots and supply points

10/n
are within range of artillery and rockets.

AHS Krab, PzH 2000, and CAESAR can use base bleed projectiles with 40 km range (photo: a CAESAR firing a base bleed projectile).
Furthermore these howitzers' use modern fire control systems, which use GPS to establish their own

11/n Image
position and then use the target's GPS coordinates to calculate the correct elevation and deflection of the barrel, then automatically move the barrel into position. All three systems also use radar to measure a fired projectile's speed & adjust the barrel after each shot.

12/n Image
Never before had Ukraine artillery with such accuracy and such range. This allows Ukraine to hit russian supply depots up to 35 km behind the front with pinpoint accuracy.

And thanks to 10,000s of Ukrainian patriots in the russian occupied territories Ukraine knows the

13/n

coordinates of EVERY russian ammo depot.

And now Ukraine also received GMLRS. GMLRS retains full accuracy up to 85 km. This allows Ukraine to land a rocket precisely onto a building 85 km away and set the fuze to detonate the 50 pounds of PBX-109 inside the building.

14/n Image
And if it is a large target (i.e. a warehouse) then Ukraine can hit it even if it is further away then 85 km.

These two new artillery capabilities have two effects:

1) russia is right now losing 1,000s of tons of ammo
2) russia can't store ammo within 100 km of the front

15/n
Every destroyed depot reduces the ammo available to russia's massive number of artillery systems at the front. And russia has to replace this lost ammo. First it can't produce as much as it uses and loses, so russia is already shipping old Soviet ammo from Belarus to Donbas.
16/n
Secondly russia can't bring this ammo within range of Ukrainian artillery and GMLRS... and has to stop the trains now 90-100 km away from the front or else the ammo dump and train will be destroyed by Ukrainian artillery.

Ammo and supplies 100 km from the front means

17/n
that russia again has to rely on trucks to supply its frontline units.
But russia already lost at least 1,200+ of its truck fleet and the remainder has been in use for months now - and russia's famous lack of maintenance is surely taking a huge toll on the remaining trucks.

18/n
So how will russian logistics "work" now?

1) trains will stop 100 km from the front and ammo will be unloaded by hand
2) trucks will be loaded by hand and then drive to the front. Loading by hand takes hours and driving 100 km in a rear combat zone takes more hours

19/n
Worse for russia - russian trucks carry less tonnage then Western military trucks and unlike Western ammo russian ammo comes in bulky wooden boxes.

• russian ammo trucks transport mostly wood
• Western ammo trucks (photo) transport almost only bang🔥

20/n Image

3) the russian trucks finally arrive at the front
4) the ammo is unloaded (by hand)
5) the trucks return to the railheads

At this distance russian truckers will struggle to make more than one supply run per day... and if the russians don't plan their supply runs perfectly

21/n
then some units will get too little ammo, others too much - which is worse: because what do you with the extra ammo? Drop it on the ground or have the trucks stay with the unit until the ammo is needed?
If you drop it on the ground and the unit has to move... well then the

22/n
ammo is lost. If you keep the trucks with the unit, then no one is driving back to get more ammo.

And while NATO armies use software and AI to plan their supply runs, russians use officers' guts... this wouldn't matter if russia had enough trucks, but having lost so many

23/n
trucks of the already few ones it began the war with russia is now even less capable to supply units 100 km from railways.

russia is a 20th century military with 19th century logistics... and now it is fighting an army receiving 21st century weapons.

It will take time, but
24/n
while NLAW, Javelin and Stinger helped Ukraine win the Battle of Kyiv; now CAESAR, AHS Krab, PzH 2000 and especially GMLRS will help Ukraine win the Battle for Donbas and the Battle for Kherson.

Because: Amateurs talk strategy. Professionals talk logistics.

25/.
While doing this thread @TrentTelenko did a russian logistics thread too :)

Understandably - Ukraine wrecking russia's already wobbly logistics is what we will hear about a lot in the coming weeks and months.
Check out his thread too:

 

Jagdflieger

Contributor
Messages
496
Reactions
282
Nation of residence
China
Nation of origin
Germany
Is there any public source to back up these claims or does this just fall under the almighty "military argument" category?
Off course - loads
One would be the source you used yourself to establish your own view in regards to the Ukraine Air-force.
Same as e.g.

And off course sources like e.g. Janes Books and www, is always worth a look and purchase.
Same goes for professional magazines like Combat Aircraft - that usually also at times include entire Air-force overviews.

Then there are persons who are actually involved in military issues since decades - e.g. those who due to their job get together with other countries engineers and aircraft maintenance people from e.g. Russia, USA, Germany and many other countries - but don't write books.
As such an e.g. Engineer from Northrop/Boeing having worked in e.g. Malaysia can tell you (if he can/wants) a whole lot about a Mig 29 or a Suhkoi 30 and the qualification of Russian engineers, right down to their own assessment towards the Russian air-force, etc. etc.

So imagine what a friend of mine e.g. a Manager at Boeing China - can, could tell you. - not just in regards to Boeing. Or the former vice Chairman at KMW/Rheinmetall,
or the CEO of EADS electronics, or the Defence Minister of....., or the Chief of the Armed forces off.....and so on.

But hey! why ask a dull pencil?
 
Last edited:

Jagdflieger

Contributor
Messages
496
Reactions
282
Nation of residence
China
Nation of origin
Germany
Recently I read this interesting commentaries that countries should prepare for a long war, whomever has the more resource wins. This war will be a contest between Russian arms industry against Ukraine's donor willingness to continue arms supply.
Absolutely - and it is not just the military aspect - but the respective countries population and government (especially democratic countries) willingness to "suffer" for how long?
 

Merzifonlu

Contributor
Think Tank Analyst
DefenceHub Diplomat
Messages
716
Reactions
25 2,154
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Absolutely - and it is not just the military aspect - but the respective countries population and government (especially democratic countries) willingness to "suffer" for how long?
You are very wrong. Contrary to popular belief, democracies are much much more stubborn. Russia cannot win this war. Never ever.
 

Mailman

Active member
Messages
99
Reactions
183
Nation of residence
Estonia
Nation of origin
Estonia
Off course - loads
One would be the source you used yourself to establish your own view in regards to the Ukraine Air-force.
Same as e.g.

And off course sources like e.g. Janes Books and www, is always worth a look and purchase.
Same goes for professional magazines like Combat Aircraft - that usually also at times include entire Air-force overviews.
Thank You! Now you managed to get some credibility.
But hey! why ask a dull pencil?
I am inclined to think that there is always something to learn from everyone. Our fate and life experiences are so different, that there must be something worth learning. Sometimes it is hard to find and often I am wondering, whether it is worth of trouble. So please tell me?
 

Jagdflieger

Contributor
Messages
496
Reactions
282
Nation of residence
China
Nation of origin
Germany
You are very wrong. Contrary to popular belief, democracies are much much more stubborn. Russia cannot win this war. Never ever.
i think we will be able to observe significant issues in regards to that statement in the next 1-3 month.
 

Jagdflieger

Contributor
Messages
496
Reactions
282
Nation of residence
China
Nation of origin
Germany
I am inclined to think that there is always something to learn from everyone. Our fate and life experiences are so different, that there must be something worth learning. Sometimes it is hard to find and often I am wondering, whether it is worth of trouble. So please tell me?
I believe so, because my entire life so far is based on exchange of views and knowledge with other persons and institutions.
And everyone with such experience will form an opinion - which usually differ very much with those of authors of books and newspaper articles that always behold a political agenda towards their intended readers/customers.
 

UkroTurk

Experienced member
Land Warfare Specialist
Professional
Messages
2,665
Reactions
54 4,757
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
A video filmed in the American port of Baltimore appeared in the media. On it there are several large transport ships of the United States Naval Sealift Command.

The Ukrainian flag is on the ships. Perhaps this is the beginning of the supply of weapons to Ukraine under Lend-Lease

Screenshot_2022-07-06-14-07-36-193_org.telegram.messenger.jpg

Screenshot_2022-07-06-14-07-16-071_org.telegram.messenger.jpg
 

500

Contributor
Moderator
Think Tank Analyst
Israel Moderator
Messages
798
Solutions
1
Reactions
11 2,945
Nation of residence
Israel
Nation of origin
Israel
Another thing about RuAF. On paper its very big - over 1100 combat jets and bombers. But during this war in February and March they made only about 200 combat sorties a day in average. Then it reduced even further.

For comparison Israeli air force with about 350 jets made 400 combat sorties a day during 2006 Lebanon war (which was a LIC conflict). While during Yom Kippur war IAF made 590 combat sorties a day.

That shows very low combat readiness and poor ground service quality of RuAF. Plus unlike Western and even Arab countries (after 1967) virtually all RuAF aircraft stand in open and not in protected hangars. So they can be easily destroyed.

Typical RuAF airbase:

View attachment 43874

During Desert Storm air campaign coalition made 2,700 sorties a day dropping 2,400 tons of bombs a day.
 

Merzifonlu

Contributor
Think Tank Analyst
DefenceHub Diplomat
Messages
716
Reactions
25 2,154
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
i think we will be able to observe significant issues in regards to that statement in the next 1-3 month.
OK. Shall we bet?

This is what we will see in Ukraine 3 months after. Russian soldiers dying or starving gathered around the highways.
 

Follow us on social media

Top Bottom