India Navy Destroyers

[Gessler]

A nice ship for sure, but i have doubts on the stealthiness .

For some reason, Indian media calls all Indian ships since P-17 Shivalik (as well as the Talwar-class) as stealth - its laughable. Yes they all have some degree of design built to induce deflection of radar but that in of itself can hardly make them stealth! If these are stealth, then what are Zumwalt & Visby? Super stealth?

I've only one thing to say to those people - any ship with those huge RBU-6000s poking out of deck cannot be considered stealth, period.

 

[Nilgiri]

Thanks. Interesting that the ship you used as an example here has that X-shaped structure below the rear radar array (one that looks more like a dish antenna).

Well spotted, that arrangement seems to have been retained overall in the thales radar mast area (from kolkata ---> vizag class)

I think on that "2nd mast", they are some kind of communication antenna array.

The lengths of the antenna subcomponents lead me to think there is both a VHF and UHF combined antenna etc.

How (2nd mast) looks on vizag class versus kolkata class respectively:

https://sgfs.sitcdn.com/DG/2021/11/20/Delhi/TDG/5_08/f7bded1c_6211_P_3_mr.jpg

https://miro.medium.com/max/2400/0*DFbYe5Ur8b0nnlH6.jpg

A google search brought me these so looks like my hunch was right:

https://s1.manualzz.com/store/data/012075167_1-a3b8c579eb9d3a876b91f6a6d1874cb7.png

https://s1.manualzz.com/store/data/008380157_1-ea0c2c4e90910736613604fef986171c-360x466.png

For some reason, Indian media calls all Indian ships since P-17 Shivalik (as well as the Talwar-class) as stealth - its laughable. Yes they all have some degree of design built to induce deflection of radar but that in of itself can hardly make them stealth! If these are stealth, then what are Zumwalt & Visby? Super stealth?

I've only one thing to say to those people - any ship with those huge RBU-6000s poking out of deck cannot be considered stealth, period.

Shhhhhh you are saying the quiet part out loud....

That isn't very stealthy of you.

Lets just call it RCS-reduction. That is broad enough and everyone is happy.

Pity they did this all at this cost point, I was hoping for big evolvement in flush deck etc from Kolkata ---> Vizag.

They better not cookie cutter Vizag for NGD and other stuff like that, they have to start a new flush deck design from scratch.

 

[Nilgiri]

The lengths of the antenna subcomponents lead me to think there is both a VHF and UHF combined antenna etc.

How Arleigh Burke does it:

DDG-51 ARLEIGH BURKE-class - Navy Ships

man.fas.org

@Anmdt @Pukovnik7

 

[Domobran7]

Well spotted, that arrangement seems to have been retained overall in the thales radar mast area (from kolkata ---> vizag class)

I think on that "2nd mast", they are some kind of communication antenna array.

The lengths of the antenna subcomponents lead me to think there is both a VHF and UHF combined antenna etc.

How (2nd mast) looks on vizag class versus kolkata class respectively:
https://sgfs.sitcdn.com/DG/2021/11/20/Delhi/TDG/5_08/f7bded1c_6211_P_3_mr.jpg https://miro.medium.com/max/2400/0*DFbYe5Ur8b0nnlH6.jpg
A google search brought me these so looks like my hunch was right:

https://s1.manualzz.com/store/data/012075167_1-a3b8c579eb9d3a876b91f6a6d1874cb7.png https://s1.manualzz.com/store/data/008380157_1-ea0c2c4e90910736613604fef986171c-360x466.png

Thanks.

 

[Gessler]

INS Kolkata exercises with FS Chevalier Paul (Horizon-class)

 

[Nilgiri]

Some visuals and footage found on this video:

 

[Nilgiri]

 

[Super falcon]

What plans to counter chinese destroyers lik type 052 and, 055 a seriois threst to ondia

 

[Gessler]

INS Mormugao, the second P-15B DDG on sea trials:

 

[Nilgiri]

Along with another p 15 b class destroyer called ins surat
That makes 3 Kolkata class and as far as I know 4 vishakahpatnam class ships .
Each with 7000 tonnes displacement
Time to start project 18 ngd

INS surat launch here:

 

[Nilgiri]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1542065920683651073

 

[Gessler]

Interesting tid bits from this promotional video of Next-Generation Combat Management System (ostensibly intended for NGD and NGF programs):

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580814200347426817

Could this be a conceptual render of the 10,000-13,000 ton NGD, unofficially known as the Project-18 DDG?

Few observations:

• This is definitely Fincantieri-assisted design. Lots of similarity between this and the Italian Navy DDX concept (pic below), but there are key differences.
• 72 VLS up front...another farm is present amidships, but I'm not entirely sure if its the same size but looking smaller due to perspective or if it's really a smaller farm. Either way, it would have 48-72 cells in the back for a total of 120-144 Universal VLS cells for SAMs, LACMs, smaller ASCMs, ASROCs etc. This is likely the same UVLS that was reported as being under development by DRDO.
• They seem to have gotten rid of the BrahMos UVLM launchers (most likely the future BrahMos-II hypersonic missiles would have required the same or similar sized ones) and instead moved to 8 x inclined launchers for the SSM armament. It's yet unclear if the rear VLS farm is a 'modular' block which could be swapped for one equipped with large VLS for outsize articles (like hypersonics or SMART anti-sub missiles), such as what's intended for US Navy's DDG(X).
• There is no visible secondary radar/volumn search radar anywhere. This could be an indication that the radar mast depicted here could be housing a multi-band radar setup (the LRMFR is already in testing on INS Anvesh) that can do both jobs within a single integrated radar housing, similar to what's on the Zumwalt-class.
• The arrangement of exhaust funnels is unique and a lot can be inferred i.e. they are 100% moving away from Zorya-Mashproekt turbines and toward Rolls Royce MT30. MoUs have already been signed as previously reported, along with a joint development contract for customized IEP intended for warm-water applications between GE & BEL.

This is all of course considering this render is indeed somewhat indicative of the direction NGD/NGF are taking...if this turns out to be just a representative render, well then,...

@Nilgiri @Anmdt @Lordimperator

 

[Lordimperator]

Interesting tid bits from this promotional video of Next-Generation Combat Management System (ostensibly intended for NGD and NGF programs):

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1580814200347426817

Could this be a conceptual render of the 10,000-13,000 ton NGD, unofficially known as the Project-18 DDG?

View attachment 48795

View attachment 48796

View attachment 48797

Few observations:

• 72 VLS up front...another farm is present amidships, but I'm not entirely sure if its the same size but looking smaller due to perspective or if it's really a smaller farm. Either way, it would have 48-72 cells in the back for a total of 120-144 Universal VLS cells for SAMs, LACMs, smaller ASCMs, ASROCs etc. This is likely the same UVLS that was reported as being under development by DRDO.
• They seem to have gotten rid of the BrahMos UVLM launchers (most likely the future BrahMos-II hypersonic missiles would have required the same or similar sized ones) and instead moved to 8 x inclined launchers for the SSM armament. It's yet unclear if the rear VLS farm is a 'modular' block which could be swapped for one equipped with large VLS for outsize articles (like hypersonics or SMART anti-sub missiles), such as what's intended for US Navy's DDG(X).
• There is no visible secondary radar/volumn search radar anywhere. This could be an indication that the radar mast depicted here could be housing a multi-band radar setup (the LRMFR is already in testing on INS Anvesh) that can do both jobs within a single integrated radar housing, similar to what's on the Zumwalt-class.
• The arrangement of exhaust funnels is unique and a lot can be inferred i.e. they are 100% moving away from Zorya-Mashproekt turbines and toward Rolls Royce MT30. MoUs have already been signed as previously reported, along with a joint development contract for customized IEP intended for warm-water applications between GE & BEL.

This is all of course considering this render is indeed somewhat indicative of the direction NGD/NGF are taking...if this turns out to be just a representative render, well then,...

@Nilgiri @Anmdt @Lordimperator

May i ask, is this inspired by italian future cruiser?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1424657728237146115

How many units projected to be built?

 

[Gessler]

May i ask, is this inspired by italian future cruiser?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1424657728237146115

How many units projected to be built?

I was just editing the post LOL. Read now.

Yes - Fincantieri is a consultant and it's very apparent that it's a DDX-based design, there's quite some changes though.

Currently the plan seems to be for 5 ships.

 

[Zapper]

I was just editing the post LOL. Read now.

Yes - Fincantieri is a consultant and it's very apparent that it's a DDX-based design, there's quite some changes though.

Currently the plan seems to be for 5 ships.

Is there any official or rumored timeline for it's development and why only 5 ships given there aren't any more Vizag-class destroyers on order? I assume there might be follow-on orders but the pace at which PLAN is building...we better have enough to cover the IOR

 

[Lordimperator]

Currently the plan seems to be for 5 ships.

Thats quite many, even more than the Italians (2). Well we are facing PLAN here.

 

[Nilgiri]

 

[Gary]

Imo, the Indian navy should put less emphasis on surface strike and increase AAW capabilities (increased sensors, increased anti air VLS cells) towards any continuation model destroyers and let the carrier based strike fighters (the future F/A-18 or Rafale) do the ship sinking/ surface strike job.

I mean Indian Navy, together with the French is the only navy to emphasize added VLS on board its carriers, the problem may stem from the fact that Indian navy destroyers are seen as less capable and lesser armed in the AAW domain than its US, European or Chinese counterpart, thus necessitating its own carriers to do its part in fleet air defense. The French might solve this problem by interoperating with NATO allies, but hard to see India does the same especially QUAD isn't an institutionalized military pact like NATO.

 

[Gessler]

Is there any official or rumored timeline for it's development

MDL expects a firm order in its pocket in about 5 years. It's still in conceptual stage.

So we should commission the first ship in mid-2030s probably.

and why only 5 ships given there aren't any more Vizag-class destroyers on order? I assume there might be follow-on orders but the pace at which PLAN is building...we better have enough to cover the IOR

Looking at this design, its primary role will be to provide AAW & BMD cover to Carrier Groups and/or Surface Task Forces. Hard to imagine any role where more than 2-3 hulls could be at sea at any given time. There will always be 1 or 2 available to sail out with every operational CBG, plus at least another which can sail out with the future LHDs or around which a dedicated Task Force can be built.

There is already talk of follow-on P-17A frigates (7 more), so I can't rule out that there could be additional P-15B destroyers as well.

As far as PLAN is concerned, it has very limited capacity to operate outside the first & second island chains. Sustained ops in IOR are still very much beyond their reach. And anyway, due to geography we only have to lock down very specific chokepoints to prevent the Chinese from inducting or deinducting forces freely into & out of IOR. We have numbers for that.

Imo, the Indian navy should put less emphasis on surface strike and increase AAW capabilities (increased sensors, increased anti air VLS cells) towards any continuation model destroyers and let the carrier based strike fighters (the future F/A-18 or Rafale) do the ship sinking/ surface strike job.

That seems to be the direction things are going - look at the conceptual NGD above.

 

[Nilgiri]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595723973760675841