TR Foreign Policy & Geopolitics

dBSPL

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Gökçeada forests were set on fire from 4 different points. It is spreading fast due to the strong south-westerly wind. Like the Aksaz and Datça fires, the perpetrators are quite clear. Unfortunately, the foe is not only hostile to humans, but also to nature.
 

Ryder

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I was going to write it, but you wrote it. Officially, the project of betrayal, will a country in such a geography clear the mines on its borders? Our environment is the world terror center... Do we have to sign for Ottawa?

With this agreement, the mines on the Iranian border were also removed.

As the Turkish nation, do we have to put up with the hordes of ignorant and bigoted people from Sunni, Shiite, Afghan, Syrian and Pakistani? Just as the level of education increased and the illiterate decreased in Turkey... this time, these people who had just come out of the cave came.

You are treating as if Turkiye was Yale before they came.
 

Zafer

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Human Development Index over the years, note the PPP.

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Zafer

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its a sham metric designed to portray how willing you are as a nation to bend the knee towards the interests of the elites who impose the global order.
You need to be specific, how does that work?
 

GoatsMilk

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You are treating as if Turkiye was Yale before they came.

It certainly wasn't like fatih district is today. Lets stop shilling for soros inspired migrations. Parts of eastern Turkey was already quite culturally backward, an influx of millions of culturally worse people is going to have a detrimental effect on the nation. No other country on earth is getting screwed by mass immigration the way Turkey is.
 

Heartbang

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You need to be specific, how does that work?
the same way we won Eurovision after saying no to the US on March 1st 2003, keeping us out of the Iraq war.

one who controls the Media, controls the perspective of the people. and one who controls the perspective of the people, controls the world.
 

GoatsMilk

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the same way we won Eurovision after saying no to the US on March 1st 2003, keeping us out of the Iraq war.

one who controls the Media, controls the perspective of the people. and one who controls the perspective of the people, controls the world.

The real "kingmakers".

quote-the-conscious-and-intelligent-manipulation-of-the-organised-habits-and-opinions-of-the-edward-bernays-59-88-46.jpg


The father of consumerism.
 
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Zafer

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the same way we won Eurovision after saying no to the US on March 1st 2003, keeping us out of the Iraq war.

one who controls the Media, controls the perspective of the people. and one who controls the perspective of the people, controls the world.
But in this case there are metrics and statistics in place. They take people's life expectancy numbers, years of eduction numbers and income numbers and average them. There is no emotions involved.
 

Heartbang

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But in this case there are metrics and statistics in place.
metrics and statistics can be "cooked." P.R. China, who has 1.4 BILLION people in it, reports a total of 5,226 COVID deaths.
you're not taking them at face value, are you?
 

TheInsider

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Of the roughly 66 billion USD Pakistan earned from the world in 2021 (exports and remittance combined in current account), China provided maybe 3 billion of it.

i.e about 5% of the total.

So I don't think so, especially given what I already mentioned in the new global economic setting of vast amount of relatively unbacked USD liquidity (and where these have accumulated outside the US, who then are able to gain leverage for minimal political cost eg gulf countries w.r.t Pakistan).

i.e much of the actual implosion risk is leveraged back to the US (which puts a large cap on it than any other could given its abundance of hard and soft power) via this debt policy setting change (in 21st century) from 6 trillion to now more than 30 trillion (and no end to it in sight)....and this is just the public side.

This (China being just 5% provider of Pakistan's earnings in real time) is also just one element of many more that would mitigate economic implosion there.

We can look at the capital account side (i.e future stake rather than current flows) where China's relevance improves some w.r.t Pakistan vis a vis other lenders and investors but its not a hugely different picture given Pakistan's total basket here is small and is capped by its credit rating (and other similar factors) to begin with relative to its population and economic norms (which go much more out of whack quicker for smaller countries like Sri Lanka or Argentina in the past).




Yup I agree 100%. Many developing countries with large populations (Egypt would be one) share same phenomenon. There is bedrock (which has its good and bad and neutral parts to it).... that is not visible in many "quick" economic metrics that arose from a more developed economy perspective....originally to compare mainly among developed countries and closest peers in earlier cold war setting.

China also provides technology, machinery, semi-finished goods, components, and raw materials at a very favorable price. I don't have exact numbers but Pakistan imports over 20 billion worth of goods and services from China annually. Without China, the economy of Pakistan will crash. Pakistan can import from other sources but probably at double the price which will put a huge strain on the current account balance of an already bad economy.
 

Ryder

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It certainly wasn't like fatih district is today. Lets stop shilling for soros inspired migrations. Parts of eastern Turkey was already quite culturally backward, an influx of millions of culturally worse people is going to have a detrimental effect on the nation. No other country on earth is getting screwed by mass immigration the way Turkey is.

Why is it so backwards?

Thats right for decades we treated Eastern Turkiye as a backwater.

While all the investments went to Istanbul and Izmir.

Also if you think Eastern Turkiye is full of Arabs and Kurds you are wrong there is lots of Turks there that have lived there since the 1071s.

Being brown does not disqualify a Turk from being a Turk if so Iraqi Turkmens wont be considered Turkic.
 

GoatsMilk

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Why is it so backwards?

Thats right for decades we treated Eastern Turkiye as a backwater.

While all the investments went to Istanbul and Izmir.

Also if you think Eastern Turkiye is full of Arabs and Kurds you are wrong there is lots of Turks there that have lived there since the 1071s.

Being brown does not disqualify a Turk from being a Turk if so Iraqi Turkmens wont be considered Turkic.

Its pretty backward, the kind of place where incest is the norm, genital female mutilation, low education etc etc. Lets stop pretending that every culture is equal when clearly some are much better then others.

And Turkey never neglected the south east, everything is paid for and free mostly in that region. To make matters worse billions are sunk into the region in the hopes it keeps the people away from terrorism. Massive levels of investment has gone into that region.

Lets stop pulling Turkey towards the middle eastern way of life, its mostly terrible.

And brown skinned Turks stop identifying who you are with your pigment of your skin, its making you guys want to turn into Afghanis. And Afghanistan has one of the most degenerate and backward cultures on earth.

In a country like Afghanistan a girl going to school is considered a revolutionary act. In Saudi Arabia a woman being allowed to drive is also considered a revolutionary act. Meanwhile in Iran a woman showing her hair is a revolutionary act. These are all backward cultures.

do you want to turn Turkey into a country where one day a woman choosing not to wear a hijab is considered a revolutionary act?
 
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Ryder

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Its pretty backward, the kind of place where incest is the norm, genital female mutilation, low education etc etc. Lets stop pretending that every culture is equal when clearly some are much better then others.

And Turkey never neglected the south east, everything is paid for and free mostly in that region. To make matters worse billions are sunk into the region in the hopes it keeps the people away from terrorism. Massive levels of investment has gone into that region.

Lets stop pulling Turkey towards the middle eastern way of life, its mostly terrible.

And brown skinned Turks stop identifying who you are with your pigment of your skin, its making you guys want to turn into Afghanis. And Afghanistan has one of the most degenerate and backward cultures on earth.

In a country like Afghanistan a girl going to school is considered a revolutionary act. In Saudi Arabia a woman being allowed to drive is also considered a revolutionary act. Meanwhile in Iran a woman showing her hair is a revolutionary act. These are all backward cultures.

do you want to turn Turkey into a country where one day a woman choosing not to wear a hijab is considered a revolutionary act?

We should return back to the nomadic days.

Civilisation is collapsing. When it collapses nobody will survive.

Only the nomadic cultures or the primitive cultures will survive the day.
 

Ryder

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How many rich Turks there are we still have not made any contact with them.

I know the Kashoggi family are screwed up.

Now imagine if we gathered them all up and made them work for us in lobbying.

We are so bad at lobbying. Turkiye also needs to lobby to benefit its foreign policy.

Politicians are easy yo buy out they are like w*ores.
 

Nilgiri

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China also provides technology, machinery, semi-finished goods, components, and raw materials at a very favorable price. I don't have exact numbers but Pakistan imports over 20 billion worth of goods and services from China annually. Without China, the economy of Pakistan will crash. Pakistan can import from other sources but probably at double the price which will put a huge strain on the current account balance of an already bad economy.

It is getting off topic (this is TR geopolitics thread) so this will be my last post on this matter here, but I disagree.

It is demand and supply in the end (and what basis, absolute threadbare requirements and elasticities a country has for those in the end).

Countries can (and often do) insulate and cleave large parts of their demand in response to growing bills they simply cannot front anymore (or in North Korea's case prevent them from even starting in first place).

Ability and buffer to do this is commensurate to the social dynamic of their population in the end (how much of the population is "globally" norms referenced and operating and psychologically reliant on this in whichever level.....versus how much are not), which is a complicated thing to get into if you are not from the country itself or have studied it closely.

Factors like why Pakistan perseveres with its landowner system (i.e almost no land redistributed to small farmers on basis of the theft that happened on this in the colonial era)...which essentially gridlocks extra hard its political channels and basic labour market like no other in even the region. Their belly was never big and they can tighten the belt much more (given they have lived entire lives doing this anyway) when the landowners with big sticks coerce them following instructions and price signalling from the urban elite etc.

Pakistan's market capitalisation falling from 50 billion USD to 30 billion recently in under 1 year time is telling of the larger haircut on finance spread/exposure that is entrenching as reality for them this decade at least. i.e 120 times behind India (i.e 20 times behind per person) in basic economic expansion impetus.

But a severe economic malaise and rut (and even some series of crashes and defaults that are weathered when they happen) entrenching a low income stasis.... is different to implosion in the end for that same reason (this society simply does not exist in the developed world or parts of world that have seen higher consumption for some decades now per person).

China's significance extends more in the strategic and geopolitical sense (and that will have a basic cross over effect for Pakistan's low income perseverance much like in case of North Korea - given say the nuclear weapons factor).... much like the US provided to Pakistan in the cold war era preceding this one......but that is different matter to economic-based collapses given the social factors that are not expressed well in economics.

The final quantity per person of what US, China provided and provide economically in Pakistan is very small in larger sense of things that their largely undocumented time, labour and effort is involved in. The provision is far more significant in separate matter (involving far fewer people in the end)....but it is not a macroeconomic one, not even close.
 

GoatsMilk

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We should return back to the nomadic days.

Civilisation is collapsing. When it collapses nobody will survive.

Only the nomadic cultures or the primitive cultures will survive the day.

Nope, from one extreme to the other.

Lets raise the level of education/intelligence of the nation, lets become more productive, lets become richer and lets improve life and welfare. Lets move away from backwardness and weakness.

Muslims living the good life in the western world don't want to return to poverty of their nations of origin. So Turkish Muslims who live in the west and enjoy that level of prosperity and welfare that west can give, lets want that for Turkey too. Lets not want Afghanistan, or other backward tribal traditions/customs of surrounding nations. Lets want what's good for the nation. What's good at its core stems from the level of education, raise the education and eventually we will raise the nation.

If we live life under the belief that civilisation is collapsing which it isn't, it will cause us to stagnant and regress. And everywhere Muslim civilisation regressed she was open to being taken over. You don't want that. If that happens you will end up like the Palestinians or Uyghurs both being crushed under the foot of brutal and oppressive regimes. Today 1.5 billion Muslims can do nothing about it whatsoever.
 

Afif

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Nope, from one extreme to the other.

Lets raise the level of education/intelligence of the nation, lets become more productive, lets become richer and lets improve life and welfare. Lets move away from backwardness and weakness.

Muslims living the good life in the western world don't want to return to poverty of their nations of origin. So Turkish Muslims who live in the west and enjoy that level of prosperity and welfare that west can give, lets want that for Turkey too. Lets not want Afghanistan, or other backward tribal traditions/customs of surrounding nations. Lets want what's good for the nation. What's good at its core stems from the level of education, raise the education and eventually we will raise the nation.

If we live life under the belief that civilisation is collapsing which it isn't, it will cause us to stagnant and regress. And everywhere Muslim civilisation regressed she was open to being taken over. You don't want that. If that happens you will end up like the Palestinians or Uyghurs both being crushed under the foot of brutal and oppressive regimes. Today 1.5 billion Muslims can do nothing about it whatsoever.
you are right!
The Right Education is the key to any nation's future.
but i can assure you, nobody want to become their country like Afghanistan.
yes, overall human civilization is not collapsing. However, nearly in four hundred years, for the first time the balance of power shifting from west to east, particularly to east Asia.

As i said, human civilization is may not collapsing as a whole, however in the next 30/40 years some kind of social collapse in the west becoming more and more likely.
So it is also important for muslim world to not mimic the west too much ( to be approved by them as 'CIVILIZED' ) that in the end, we cannot even distinguish between a man and women or everybody becomes an insane LGBTQ activist!
 

Ryder

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you are right!
The Right Education is the key to any nation's future.
but i can assure you, nobody want to become their country like Afghanistan.
yes, overall human civilization is not collapsing. However, nearly in four hundred years, for the first time the balance of power shifting from west to east, particularly to east Asia.

As i said, human civilization is may not collapsing as a whole, however in the next 30/40 years some kind of social collapse in the west becoming more and more likely.
So it is also important for muslim world to not mimic the west too much ( to be approved by them as 'CIVILIZED' ) that in the end, we cannot even distinguish between a man and women or everybody becomes an insane LGBTQ activist!

Seriously Afghanistan has been a tribal society for thousands of years.

Let them continue as they wish.

All this high horse bs made things worse.

If tribal societies want to continue as they like let them. Does not concern me one bit.
 

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