The Swedish Foreign Minister condemned the left parties' meeting with the PKK.
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S400's are for Greek belligerency. (and possibly for reverse engineering)My theory on why the S-400 was deemed more valuable: it wasn't meant to defend against outside threats—if you catch my drift...
Agreed on the reverse engineering, but a few S-400's can't help against the HAF, which—like it or not—is a formidable air force with an increasingly superior fleet of fighter jets (in comparison to ours). Our F-16Vs will likely arrive by 2027, Bahrain just received theirs a couple of days ago. HAFs block 70 upgrades are in the pipeline, they've received two already. Ours still have to wait for those geriatrics in the US senate to pass their defence budget.S400's are for Greek belligerency. (and possibly for reverse engineering)
The US and the EU will never abandon their spoiled, debt-ridden enfant terrible of a state that is Athens circa 2022—their entire founding myth depends on the belief that they are sole inheritors of ancient Athens and Rome's greatest hits (ignore the terrible parts).
An up-and-coming Turkiye, however, with a blossoming high-tech industry and service sector will prove irresistible in the long run. Just look at Biden and Scholtz simping for China at this year's G20. That future—however turbulent the path to it may be—is inevitable. That is, as long as we weather through our current challenges without doing something as irrefutably stupid as escalating our conflict with Greece beyond the "occasional spat in exchange for political capital back home" schtick (on both sides of the Aegean).
I never said tone down the current rhetoric beyond direct threats of war. I meant that we should not take for granted just how disastrous a war with Greece would actually be. I meant that we, as a community, should not use the term "war" lightly.Ok, when Greece declare ther territorial waters to 12 mile what should happen?
s400s arent supposed to "help against HAF" theyre supposed to fend off attacks against whatever which is theyre deployed to protect. they are inherently defensive weapons systems.but a few S-400's can't help against the HAF, which—like it or not—is a formidable air force with an increasingly superior fleet of fighter jets (in comparison to ours).
the devastation goes both ways. there are no winners in war, only those who lose less. what theyre bound to lose in a potential clash is far bigger than ours. we are aware of this.A war with Greece would be a political, financial, and reputational disaster.
they'd cry that no matter what we do. these are not sane ppl were dealing with. better make it count.We'd only end up "proving" that "the Turks are the warmongers", regardless of whether or not our hypothetical casus belli is justified.
We're not in disagreement here, I just think it's our duty to rise above some of the extreme rhetoric on this forum. My argument is that there were (are?) domestic kooks that did have a history of bombing Ankara at the time the S-400 decision was so fervently made.s400s arent supposed to "help against HAF" theyre supposed to fend off attacks against whatever which is theyre deployed to protect. they are inherently defensive weapons systems.
in a recent joint exercise in India, the US and its allies have reached the conclusion that export versions of S400 systems are capable of fending against stealth threats in a 30 km radius.
in a potential greek escalation, our mil. industrial complex in Ankara is a prime target for these kooks to attack. and s400's 30 km bubble covers the entirety of Ankara with ease. in fact, theres only one city in this nation that 30 km range doesnt cover. (you know which city it is )
the devastation goes both ways. there are no winners in war, only those who lose less. what theyre bound to lose in a potential clash is far bigger than ours. we are aware of this.
they'd cry that no matter what we do. these are not sane ppl were dealing with. better make it count.
There will no war between Turkiye and Greece,because that meant we have to fight France or American which we cant prepare enough before 2040 or laterAgreed on the reverse engineering, but a few S-400's can't help against the HAF, which—like it or not—is a formidable air force with an increasingly superior fleet of fighter jets (in comparison to ours). Our F-16Vs will likely arrive by 2027, Bahrain just received theirs a couple of days ago. HAFs block 70 upgrades are in the pipeline, they've received two already. Ours still have to wait for those geriatrics in the US senate to pass their defence budget.
A war with Greece would be a political, financial, and reputational disaster. Let's just stop the incessant warmongering emanating from some of the members here. We'd only end up "proving" that "the Turks are the warmongers", regardless of whether or not our hypothetical casus belli is justified. Gas in the Eastern Med will have to be solved through diplomacy, not through war. In the meantime, let's just continue defiantly building up our defence capabilities, on our own terms; defend our people and borders as best as we can; while simultaneously generating income, skilled workers, and prestige. That's more than enough.
The US and the EU will never abandon their spoiled, debt-ridden enfant terrible of a state that is Athens circa 2022—their entire founding myth depends on the belief that they are the sole inheritors of ancient Athens and Rome's greatest hits (ignore the terrible parts).
An up-and-coming Turkiye, however, with a blossoming high-tech industry and service sector will prove irresistible in the long run. Just look at Biden and Scholtz simping for China at this year's G20. That future—however turbulent the path to it may be—is inevitable. That is, as long as we weather through our current challenges without doing something as irrefutably stupid as escalating our conflict with Greece beyond the "occasional spat in exchange for political capital back home" schtick (on both sides of the Aegean).
If that happens Turkiye will flex muscles and give a deadline to recall the decision. Declare whole world that you don't recognize unilateral declaration of Greece, it has no legitimacy and is a direct confrontation. Then President calls for mobilization, you start gathering up your troops to show how serious you are, parliament authorize army for full response.. (of course just show off) Probably at that stage they back off, or EU and USA intervene and diplomatic solution happens. War would be devastating for Turkiye even if she crush Greece easily, a lot of economic losses. Most radical thing would happen is a somewhat similar thing like Kardak or taking couple of islands without widespread confrontation. War would be never happen of both side's mainland, sea, air and islands will be the hot spot for short time.Ok, when Greece declare ther territorial waters to 12 mile what should happen?
Very briefly two things.Wtf
Again, wtf?
I applaud Erdogan's shamelessness tbh
is he gonna go crazy or something?
How can he restore relations with Egypt when theyare supporting Greek EEZ claims
How can he restore relations with Assad when he is aiding the PKK
The guy gonna go nuts? And why after the elections though?
That is impossibleVery briefly two things.
There is no such thing as 'shamelessness' in geopolitics.
There is no longer lasting military solution to any of middle east problems.
The question here is...... is this the right course of action or not?Egypt will implode unless Sisi changes course or a sizeable Saudi/UAE financial help is given to extend the implosion process. IMF loans can't save Egypt. Egypt has a population of 100 million, and an uncompetitive military-controlled economy that exports only 40bllion annually. Erdogan wants to capitalize on that especially now that Erdo has good relations with both financiers of Egypt (Saudi Arabia and UAE). Saudi and UEA continuously donated and lent money to Egypt but I don't know for how long they are willing to spend money to keep Egypt afloat.
Erdogan is seriously thinking of kicking the USA out of Syria but he can't do that while the regime poses a threat. There has to be some kind of understanding between the regime and the Turkiye to launch a sizeable op against YPG-held territories because of the risk of regime/Iranian militia joining in. Fighting against every player is stupid even when you have the strength to do that. Regardless Turkiye will launch a new of after operation Claw-Lock is finished in northern Iraq. Manbij and Ain Al Arab are likely targets. The safe bet is to launch another op again in Northern Iraq.
Don't ever believe anything that comes out of Erdogan's mouth. He is known to change his mind frequently. (i don't use another word starting with "L" not to get into trouble.)
My grandfather was in the diplomatic deligation to initiate the peace talk between Iraq and Iran when the Iraq-Iran war was at its peak.That is impossible
All Med East and Africa's problems will eventually be solved either militarily or through coups and citizens' blood. Anyone who believes otherwise doesnt know a single thing about the shithole/clusterfuck known as the Med East
Moreover, Sisi doesnt like a muslim state to have any sort of democracy as it threatens his rule directly or indirectly; there is a reason why Sisi instigated military coups in Sudan and Tunisia for Gods sake
Agreed on the reverse engineering, but a few S-400's can't help against the HAF, which—like it or not—is a formidable air force with an increasingly superior fleet of fighter jets (in comparison to ours). Our F-16Vs will likely arrive by 2027, Bahrain just received theirs a couple of days ago. HAFs block 70 upgrades are in the pipeline, they've received two already. Ours still have to wait for those geriatrics in the US senate to pass their defence budget.
A war with Greece would be a political, financial, and reputational disaster. Let's just stop the incessant warmongering emanating from some of the members here. We'd only end up "proving" that "the Turks are the warmongers", regardless of whether or not our hypothetical casus belli is justified. Gas in the Eastern Med will have to be solved through diplomacy, not through war. In the meantime, let's just continue defiantly building up our defence capabilities, on our own terms; defend our people and borders as best as we can; while simultaneously generating income, skilled workers, and prestige. That's more than enough.
The US and the EU will never abandon their spoiled, debt-ridden enfant terrible of a state that is Athens circa 2022—their entire founding myth depends on the belief that they are the sole inheritors of ancient Athens and Rome's greatest hits (ignore the terrible parts).
An up-and-coming Turkiye, however, with a blossoming high-tech industry and service sector will prove irresistible in the long run. Just look at Biden and Scholtz simping for China at this year's G20. That future—however turbulent the path to it may be—is inevitable. That is, as long as we weather through our current challenges without doing something as irrefutably stupid as escalating our conflict with Greece beyond the "occasional spat in exchange for political capital back home" schtick (on both sides of the Aegean).
Egypt will implode regardless, its just too big of a population to be sustained on such a small space. Egypt still has a high fertility rate, a couple decades from now will be very tough.Egypt will implode unless Sisi changes course or a sizeable Saudi/UAE financial help is given to extend the implosion process. IMF loans can't save Egypt. Egypt has a population of 100 million, and an uncompetitive military-controlled economy that exports only 40bllion annually. Erdogan wants to capitalize on that especially now that Erdo has good relations with both financiers of Egypt (Saudi Arabia and UAE). Saudi and UEA continuously donated and lent money to Egypt but I don't know for how long they are willing to spend money to keep Egypt afloat.
Erdogan is seriously thinking of kicking the USA out of Syria but he can't do that while the regime poses a threat. There has to be some kind of understanding between the regime and the Turkiye to launch a sizeable op against YPG-held territories because of the risk of regime/Iranian militia joining in. Fighting against every player is stupid even when you have the strength to do that. Regardless Turkiye will launch a new of after operation Claw-Lock is finished in northern Iraq. Manbij and Ain Al Arab are likely targets. The safe bet is to launch another op again in Northern Iraq.
Don't ever believe anything that comes out of Erdogan's mouth. He is known to change his mind frequently. (i don't use another word starting with "L" not to get into trouble.)
Then you truly dont know a thing!My grandfather was in the diplomatic deligation to initiate the peace talk between Iraq and Iran when the Iraq-Iran war was at its peak.
Nothing fruitful came out from the meeting with the madman 'Saddam hussain'
Even than, my grandfather in a very undiplomatic little conversation personally tried to convince saddam to negotiate at least some kind temporary peace with Iran!
Of course, nothing changed because Saddam was confident he can solve all of his problems with Iran just by brute military force.
I am not claiming to have any 'in depth' understanding of middle east geopolitics.
Of course, my observation is incomplete.
But I think, what you said "Anyone who believes otherwise doesnt know a single thing about the shithole/clusterfuck known as the Med East" is maybe the real problem here!
By and large Political elites in the middle east do not believe any meaningful solution can be achieved without the use of military or brute forces.
No party wants to make any meaningful compromise which is at the heart of any fruitful negotiations.
And How can you achieve something, if you don't believe it is actually possible to achieve in the first place ?
Note, this post is not personally directed to you. I am just trying to make a general point from my own personal understanding.
So don't take it too seriously.