Baryshx
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Surprise was also expected about Tisu, what happened to him?
Wish I was able to talk
Why didn't İsmail Demir give us two joys at once? Or is the Tisu postponed because the TF-X is more important?
Why didn't İsmail Demir give us two joys at once? Or is the Tisu postponed because the TF-X is more important?
Radonsider
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Nope, not related to that, TİSU will probably be a secret (shape, size, stats etc.) until first flight
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Pilatino
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"Having made significant progress in the prototype production of the National Fighter Aircraft and HÜRJET, TAI is now preparing to introduce the Unmanned Combat Aircraft to the Sky Homeland in a few months!"
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according to YusufAkbaba another country in Africa buyed Turkish UCAV.
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Bro, provide translation before your post gets deleted.
Seems like TISU already started flight tests unless i am misunderstanding @Bogeyman tweet and he is referring to another UAV, maybe goksungur 
Its topic is here.
guest12
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Yes.
Pilatino
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Damn bro, so we can say
Goksungur = Globalhawk
TISU = deltawing alienatech like shit. Damn
guest12
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This is what i hope also but many people speculate it will something like Avenger because they said Goksungur developed from Anka.
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Yes. As far as I understood from the statements so far, Göksungur is based on Anka/Aksungur and it's a propeller powered UAV (most likely the "Advanced UAV" on the roadmap) whereas TISU is a jet powered one.
B_A
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CHINESE AGAIN: J20 COPY!!! J20COPY!!!
土耳其版歼-20？战斗无人机“红苹果”完成高滑测试，为什么和歼-20长得那么像？
当地时间11月20日，由土耳其著名的Baykar Makina公司、也就是TB-2型察打一体无人机生产商主持研发的新一代无人战斗机“Kizilelma”，在Baykar公司的试飞本场进行了首次高速滑跑试验。实际上在今年七月份，“Kizile…
zhuanlan.zhihu.com
土耳其版歼-20？战斗无人机“红苹果”完成高滑测试，为什么和歼-20长得那么像？
当地时间11月20日，由土耳其著名的Baykar Makina公司、也就是TB-2型察打一体无人机生产商主持研发的新一代无人战斗机“Kizilelma”，在Baykar公司的试飞本场进行了首次高速滑跑试验。实际上在今年七月份，“Kizile…
zhuanlan.zhihu.com
Turkish version of J-20? The combat UAV "Red Apple" completed the high-sliding test. Why does it look so similar to the J-20?
Great Ima
Respondents in social sciences and humanities
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78 people liked this article
On November 20th, local time, the new generation of unmanned combat aircraft "Kizilelma", which was developed by the famous Turkish company Baykar Makina, which is the manufacturer of the TB-2 reconnaissance and strike drone, was carried out at Baykar's test flight field. The first high-speed rolling test. In fact, in July this year, the first prototype of the "Kizilelma" UAV was officially unveiled to the public, and now it has been pulled out for high-sliding tests, which means that the development of the aircraft has reached a new node, and it may soon will make its first flight.
For the "Kizilelma" drone developed by Baykar Makina, it is literally called "Red Apple". What's going on? In fact, Big Ivan did a little research, and from the name "Kizilelma", we can see how much the Turks have placed on this unmanned fighter jet. This word is a special term in Turkish history, referring to Mehmet II's name for the famous city of Constantinople in the Eastern Roman Empire.
The "conqueror of the world" Mehmet II's action to capture Constantinople can be imagined in the history of Turkey. It is basically the "highlight moment" of the Turkish nation in the Middle Ages. Now Baykar will develop it His drone was also named "Kizilelma (Red Apple)", and his intention to capture "Constantinople" in the drone field was clearly revealed.
The performance positioning of "Red Apple"
Of course, it is definitely not the same thing that Baykar wants to capture the "Constantinople" in the field of drones, and it can really capture the "Constantinople" in the field of drones. What is the overall design and performance of the "Kizilelma (Red Apple)" UAV, and how will it be developed and used in the future? From Ivan the Great’s point of view, the design of this type of drone does reflect Baykar’s ideas to a certain extent, and it does have some meaning, and even its research and development progress is not too slow in the world. However, the gap between the current technology verification machine/prototype machine and the engineering development type and actual use of the machine is too great.
It is said that Baykar Makina has a lot of ideas and interesting details in the research and development of the "Kizilelma (Red Apple)" UAV. We can look at two points: First, the aerodynamic shape of the "Kizilelma (Red Apple)" UAV is indeed It is somewhat similar to the J-20 fighter jet of the Chinese Air Force. Both of them adopt canard aerodynamic layout, outwardly inclined double vertical tail and wing-body fusion design, especially the transition section between the canard and the wing. It can be seen that Baykar still has some understanding of the vortex generation mechanism of the J-20 fighter, and is trying to imitate it in the aerodynamic design;
The second is the design details of the body surface of the "Kizilelma (Red Apple)" UAV, which indeed implements the principle of low detectability. The inspection hatches of the body have also been treated with a zigzag design. At the same time, it is estimated that the surface of the "Kizilelma (Red Apple)" body is also coated with low-detectability paint, and there should be an internal bomb bay to further enhance its stealth performance.
So on the whole, the big Ivan's perception of "Kizilelma (Red Apple)" feels that the technical positioning of this type of aircraft should be an aircraft with a relatively strong angle of attack maneuverability, that is, it can perform advanced stunts, and the overall The design places considerable emphasis on low-observable UCAVs. Baykar has devoted a lot of energy to it and has many ideas. In terms of tactical use in the future, the "Kizilelma (Red Apple)" unmanned combat aircraft is definitely not just a reconnaissance and strike drone similar to the TB-2 drone. Human-machine is so simple.
"Red Apple" detail defects
However, Baykar has a lot of ideas, but too many ideas may not be enough, and if the ability is not enough, it is easy to have high-sightedness and low-handedness. The same is true for the "Kizilelma (Red Apple)" UCAV. Let's go back to the design of the verification aircraft/prototype that is currently rolling. On the whole, the "Kizilelma (Red Apple)" has the appearance, but Some details may not stand up to scrutiny:
First of all, let’s go back to the level of aerodynamic shape. We all know that the aerodynamic shape of the J-20 fighter is very beautiful, especially its integrated wing body, full-motion canard, full-motion vertical tail design, especially the canard-side Complex vortex generator design for strip-main wing, etc. This requires a solid foundation in aerodynamic theory and engineering accumulation to design it, and a deeper engineering application experience in the field of fly-by-wire flight control design is required to design a complex fly-by-wire flight control system that matches the J-20.
In contrast, "Kizilelma (Red Apple)" has the shape of the J-20, but it does not seem to have copied the "God" of the J-20, such as the canard-side wing-main wing vortex generator However, the wing-body fusion of "Kizilelma (Red Apple)" is relatively blunt, and the line transition is not smooth. In addition, the vertical tail of the aircraft is not a full-motion vertical tail, and the air intake does not use the DSI air intake of the J-20, but uses a relatively old air intake design similar to the Garrett air intake. , At the same time, it is not clear how the flight control design of the aircraft is. Big Ivan thinks that it is still necessary to wait for the "Kizilelma (Red Apple)" to take a look at its static stability design after it really flies, so as to know the actual strength of the Turkish designer in the aerodynamic layout.
Secondly, in terms of low detectable performance, "Kizilelma (Red Apple)" is similar to the KF-21 fighter jet of the Korean KAI company. On the one hand, it seems to attach great importance to the low detectable performance of fighter jets, but on the other hand It also has a large number of details that do not meet the design requirements of low detectable performance: for example, the transitional part between the nose and the fuselage of "Kizilelma (Red Apple)", analyzed from the detailed photos, the nose radome and fuselage fold line of the aircraft are both Not perfectly aligned, obviously not that proficient in the field of machining; the same is true for the double V-shaped camber vertical tail, there are two hydraulic actuators installed on the inside of the vertical tail, the two actuators are very large, and there is no Designing for low detectability, although there is an internal shield of the vertical tail, the impact on the low detectability of the whole machine cannot be ignored. Of course, such a large hydraulic actuator may be due to the design margin of the technical verification machine or prototype stay relatively large;
Another example is the avionics on the surface of the airframe. The faults of "Kizilelma (Red Apple)" and KF-21 are exactly the same. The cooling outlet of the electrical system, and several radio frequency antennas with unknown uses, etc. On the real fifth-generation fighter jets, these radio frequency system antennas are either highly integrated or have a conformal design. It is impossible to be everywhere on the surface of the airframe, otherwise it will greatly affect the low detectable performance. Obviously "Kizilelma (red Apple)” still has a long way to go in terms of the low detectability of the whole machine, especially the electromagnetic stealth.
Turkey's next threshold
At the same time, if "Kizilelma (Red Apple)" is to truly become an unmanned combat aircraft according to Baykar's idea, it still has several thresholds to cross. "Ability:
One is that it needs to be equipped with a powerful power system. The current power system of the "Kizilelma (Red Apple)" is the AI-322-25 engine of the Ukrainian Motor Sich, or the version without afterburner. If it is positioned as an unmanned fighter jet, it must have supersonic flight performance, and if it has supersonic flight performance, it must be equipped with a turbofan engine with an afterburner. However, now Motor Sich has been "de-militarized" by the Russian missiles, and it will not be able to resume production for a long time in the future, let alone helping Turkey with the afterburner version of AI-322-25, and even the ability to It is not clear that the engine cannot continue to be provided (of course, it is more likely that this company will soon have the surname Russia).
Therefore, the problem currently facing Turkey's Baykar company is very simple. How to solve the problem of the drone's aviation development. After all, with the technical strength of the Turkish aviation industry, it has not yet produced a similar low-thrust turbofan engine. It may not be possible to come up with similar products. If you can't get a usable turbofan engine, then the "Kizilelma (Red Apple)" UAV is equivalent to being stuck in the neck and can only remain in the prototype state.
The second is the need to develop a highly integrated avionics system for the "Kizilelma (Red Apple)" UAV, as well as an artificial intelligence flight control system. Although the former is somewhat difficult for Turkey at present, it should be able to be developed by making do with it. After all, the Turkish aviation industry has experience in assembling F-16s, and even exhibited an effective F-16 developed by Aselsan earlier this month. The source phased array fire control radar, which is Turkey's technological accumulation in the aviation industry and electronics industry, can be reused on the "Kizilelma (Red Apple)" unmanned fighter jet.
But the latter is obviously very troublesome. After all, the United States, a country that is one of the best in drone AI, has set up a "Sky Borg" plan and has not studied it until now. Last year's Alpha-GO drone There was no follow-up to the man-machine air combat simulation, and we knew how difficult it was technically for UAV air combat AI. To put it bluntly, even the United States can't handle things. Turkey wants to get it done in a short period of time. It's without a soul.
Finally, the matching model of the "Kizilelma (Red Apple)" unmanned fighter is actually a problem. From the perspective of the overall design of the aircraft, Ivan the Great tends to think that the aircraft is a "loyal wingman" that cooperates with the fifth-generation aircraft. , but at present Turkey's own fifth-generation fighter development plan TFX has not been written yet. Therefore, it is still unclear what kind of man-machine combat the "Kizilelma (Red Apple)" drone is used for. At present, there is no performance benchmark and predetermined matching model. .
However, in any case, the "Kizilelma (red apple)" launched by Turkey is indeed worthy of our attention. What is more noteworthy is that with the proliferation of drone technology and aviation manufacturing technology, more and more middle-power countries have begun to attack the mid-to-high end of the aviation manufacturing industry. This trend of technology diffusion may lead to The restructuring of power around the world must pay attention to this trend.
Published on 2022-11-23 12:39・IP belongs to Beijing
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This is a typical case of Karen making everything about herself.
CHINESE AGAIN: J20 COPY!!! J20COPY!!!
土耳其版歼-20？战斗无人机“红苹果”完成高滑测试，为什么和歼-20长得那么像？
当地时间11月20日，由土耳其著名的Baykar Makina公司、也就是TB-2型察打一体无人机生产商主持研发的新一代无人战斗机“Kizilelma”，在Baykar公司的试飞本场进行了首次高速滑跑试验。实际上在今年七月份，“Kizile…
Turkish version of J-20? The combat UAV "Red Apple" completed the high-sliding test. Why does it look so similar to the J-20?
Great Ima
Respondents in social sciences and humanities
Follow him
78 people liked this article
On November 20th, local time, the new generation of unmanned combat aircraft "Kizilelma", which was developed by the famous Turkish company Baykar Makina, which is the manufacturer of the TB-2 reconnaissance and strike drone, was carried out at Baykar's test flight field. The first high-speed rolling test. In fact, in July this year, the first prototype of the "Kizilelma" UAV was officially unveiled to the public, and now it has been pulled out for high-sliding tests, which means that the development of the aircraft has reached a new node, and it may soon will make its first flight.
For the "Kizilelma" drone developed by Baykar Makina, it is literally called "Red Apple". What's going on? In fact, Big Ivan did a little research, and from the name "Kizilelma", we can see how much the Turks have placed on this unmanned fighter jet. This word is a special term in Turkish history, referring to Mehmet II's name for the famous city of Constantinople in the Eastern Roman Empire.
The "conqueror of the world" Mehmet II's action to capture Constantinople can be imagined in the history of Turkey. It is basically the "highlight moment" of the Turkish nation in the Middle Ages. Now Baykar will develop it His drone was also named "Kizilelma (Red Apple)", and his intention to capture "Constantinople" in the drone field was clearly revealed.
The performance positioning of "Red Apple"
Of course, it is definitely not the same thing that Baykar wants to capture the "Constantinople" in the field of drones, and it can really capture the "Constantinople" in the field of drones. What is the overall design and performance of the "Kizilelma (Red Apple)" UAV, and how will it be developed and used in the future? From Ivan the Great’s point of view, the design of this type of drone does reflect Baykar’s ideas to a certain extent, and it does have some meaning, and even its research and development progress is not too slow in the world. However, the gap between the current technology verification machine/prototype machine and the engineering development type and actual use of the machine is too great.
It is said that Baykar Makina has a lot of ideas and interesting details in the research and development of the "Kizilelma (Red Apple)" UAV. We can look at two points: First, the aerodynamic shape of the "Kizilelma (Red Apple)" UAV is indeed It is somewhat similar to the J-20 fighter jet of the Chinese Air Force. Both of them adopt canard aerodynamic layout, outwardly inclined double vertical tail and wing-body fusion design, especially the transition section between the canard and the wing. It can be seen that Baykar still has some understanding of the vortex generation mechanism of the J-20 fighter, and is trying to imitate it in the aerodynamic design;
The second is the design details of the body surface of the "Kizilelma (Red Apple)" UAV, which indeed implements the principle of low detectability. The inspection hatches of the body have also been treated with a zigzag design. At the same time, it is estimated that the surface of the "Kizilelma (Red Apple)" body is also coated with low-detectability paint, and there should be an internal bomb bay to further enhance its stealth performance.
So on the whole, the big Ivan's perception of "Kizilelma (Red Apple)" feels that the technical positioning of this type of aircraft should be an aircraft with a relatively strong angle of attack maneuverability, that is, it can perform advanced stunts, and the overall The design places considerable emphasis on low-observable UCAVs. Baykar has devoted a lot of energy to it and has many ideas. In terms of tactical use in the future, the "Kizilelma (Red Apple)" unmanned combat aircraft is definitely not just a reconnaissance and strike drone similar to the TB-2 drone. Human-machine is so simple.
"Red Apple" detail defects
However, Baykar has a lot of ideas, but too many ideas may not be enough, and if the ability is not enough, it is easy to have high-sightedness and low-handedness. The same is true for the "Kizilelma (Red Apple)" UCAV. Let's go back to the design of the verification aircraft/prototype that is currently rolling. On the whole, the "Kizilelma (Red Apple)" has the appearance, but Some details may not stand up to scrutiny:
First of all, let’s go back to the level of aerodynamic shape. We all know that the aerodynamic shape of the J-20 fighter is very beautiful, especially its integrated wing body, full-motion canard, full-motion vertical tail design, especially the canard-side Complex vortex generator design for strip-main wing, etc. This requires a solid foundation in aerodynamic theory and engineering accumulation to design it, and a deeper engineering application experience in the field of fly-by-wire flight control design is required to design a complex fly-by-wire flight control system that matches the J-20.
In contrast, "Kizilelma (Red Apple)" has the shape of the J-20, but it does not seem to have copied the "God" of the J-20, such as the canard-side wing-main wing vortex generator However, the wing-body fusion of "Kizilelma (Red Apple)" is relatively blunt, and the line transition is not smooth. In addition, the vertical tail of the aircraft is not a full-motion vertical tail, and the air intake does not use the DSI air intake of the J-20, but uses a relatively old air intake design similar to the Garrett air intake. , At the same time, it is not clear how the flight control design of the aircraft is. Big Ivan thinks that it is still necessary to wait for the "Kizilelma (Red Apple)" to take a look at its static stability design after it really flies, so as to know the actual strength of the Turkish designer in the aerodynamic layout.
Secondly, in terms of low detectable performance, "Kizilelma (Red Apple)" is similar to the KF-21 fighter jet of the Korean KAI company. On the one hand, it seems to attach great importance to the low detectable performance of fighter jets, but on the other hand It also has a large number of details that do not meet the design requirements of low detectable performance: for example, the transitional part between the nose and the fuselage of "Kizilelma (Red Apple)", analyzed from the detailed photos, the nose radome and fuselage fold line of the aircraft are both Not perfectly aligned, obviously not that proficient in the field of machining; the same is true for the double V-shaped camber vertical tail, there are two hydraulic actuators installed on the inside of the vertical tail, the two actuators are very large, and there is no Designing for low detectability, although there is an internal shield of the vertical tail, the impact on the low detectability of the whole machine cannot be ignored. Of course, such a large hydraulic actuator may be due to the design margin of the technical verification machine or prototype stay relatively large;
Another example is the avionics on the surface of the airframe. The faults of "Kizilelma (Red Apple)" and KF-21 are exactly the same. The cooling outlet of the electrical system, and several radio frequency antennas with unknown uses, etc. On the real fifth-generation fighter jets, these radio frequency system antennas are either highly integrated or have a conformal design. It is impossible to be everywhere on the surface of the airframe, otherwise it will greatly affect the low detectable performance. Obviously "Kizilelma (red Apple)” still has a long way to go in terms of the low detectability of the whole machine, especially the electromagnetic stealth.
Turkey's next threshold
At the same time, if "Kizilelma (Red Apple)" is to truly become an unmanned combat aircraft according to Baykar's idea, it still has several thresholds to cross. "Ability:
One is that it needs to be equipped with a powerful power system. The current power system of the "Kizilelma (Red Apple)" is the AI-322-25 engine of the Ukrainian Motor Sich, or the version without afterburner. If it is positioned as an unmanned fighter jet, it must have supersonic flight performance, and if it has supersonic flight performance, it must be equipped with a turbofan engine with an afterburner. However, now Motor Sich has been "de-militarized" by the Russian missiles, and it will not be able to resume production for a long time in the future, let alone helping Turkey with the afterburner version of AI-322-25, and even the ability to It is not clear that the engine cannot continue to be provided (of course, it is more likely that this company will soon have the surname Russia).
Therefore, the problem currently facing Turkey's Baykar company is very simple. How to solve the problem of the drone's aviation development. After all, with the technical strength of the Turkish aviation industry, it has not yet produced a similar low-thrust turbofan engine. It may not be possible to come up with similar products. If you can't get a usable turbofan engine, then the "Kizilelma (Red Apple)" UAV is equivalent to being stuck in the neck and can only remain in the prototype state.
The second is the need to develop a highly integrated avionics system for the "Kizilelma (Red Apple)" UAV, as well as an artificial intelligence flight control system. Although the former is somewhat difficult for Turkey at present, it should be able to be developed by making do with it. After all, the Turkish aviation industry has experience in assembling F-16s, and even exhibited an effective F-16 developed by Aselsan earlier this month. The source phased array fire control radar, which is Turkey's technological accumulation in the aviation industry and electronics industry, can be reused on the "Kizilelma (Red Apple)" unmanned fighter jet.
But the latter is obviously very troublesome. After all, the United States, a country that is one of the best in drone AI, has set up a "Sky Borg" plan and has not studied it until now. Last year's Alpha-GO drone There was no follow-up to the man-machine air combat simulation, and we knew how difficult it was technically for UAV air combat AI. To put it bluntly, even the United States can't handle things. Turkey wants to get it done in a short period of time. It's without a soul.
Finally, the matching model of the "Kizilelma (Red Apple)" unmanned fighter is actually a problem. From the perspective of the overall design of the aircraft, Ivan the Great tends to think that the aircraft is a "loyal wingman" that cooperates with the fifth-generation aircraft. , but at present Turkey's own fifth-generation fighter development plan TFX has not been written yet. Therefore, it is still unclear what kind of man-machine combat the "Kizilelma (Red Apple)" drone is used for. At present, there is no performance benchmark and predetermined matching model. .
However, in any case, the "Kizilelma (red apple)" launched by Turkey is indeed worthy of our attention. What is more noteworthy is that with the proliferation of drone technology and aviation manufacturing technology, more and more middle-power countries have begun to attack the mid-to-high end of the aviation manufacturing industry. This trend of technology diffusion may lead to The restructuring of power around the world must pay attention to this trend.
Published on 2022-11-23 12:39・IP belongs to Beijing
B_A
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Chinese is funny,they blocked all the news about KE and MMU,then write many articles likes thisThis is a typical case of Karen making everything about herself.
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Who?This is a typical case of Karen making everything about herself.
