TR TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[Hasanrize]

No one is going to sell us stealthy engines for our stealth planes. So we have to make do with the next best engines we can get our hands on. These are F110s, in spite of the fact that they would compromise the plane’s stealth.
One of the prerequisites of stealth planes is the capability of achieving high supercruise. An engine like F110 with 16600lbf dry thrust is not going to cut it. We need at least 24000lbf dry thrust engines to do that.
Also stealthiness of an engine has more to do with the air flow through the engine and bypass channels, as well as out of it’s nozzle. Both sound levels and IR signature of the air coming out of the nozzle has to be low and suppressed.
OK. The first prototypes with the F110 engines will not be really stealthy as we would like them to be. But this will all be irrelevant when the indigenous engine is in place.

Do you know why we chose F-110-GE-129 but not F-110-GE-132, which is more powerful?

 

[Ripley]

OK MMU is really big aircraft, but the boom-like section between the two engine block cavities is a very unusual approach too, for western systems. It reminding that:
View attachment 50740

Merzifonlu had a theory on this issue

Because of its rear radome, the TFX resembles late era Soviet aircraft. When that happens, the following question comes to my mind: Was one of the Soviet aircraft plans that went into production ready-made from Ukraine and updated in accordance with the needs of the 21st century? In this way, many workloads can be saved.

 

[Rodeo]

OK MMU is really big aircraft, but the boom-like section between the two engine block cavities is a very unusual approach too, for western systems. It reminding that:
View attachment 50740

F22 has it too.

 

[dBSPL]

Merzifonlu had a theory on this issue

Yes, I realize that now. Thank you very much. The angle of the photo may be misleading, but it really stretches like a MAD boom. It is not a simple drag-chute part, which Merzifonlu üstat drew attention to the details. The reason for my Su-34 analogy is that the geometry of this part is not as wide as the SU-57, and I must say again that it may be the angle of the photo that makes me think so. In any case, we know that this approach is something that Russian aviation has been working on in one form or another for almost 30 years.

Su-57 radar placements btw,

 

[Gary]

F110-GE129E
That is the twin engined configuration of the F110 that are used in F15 planes.

There actually the more powerful GE-132, I wonder why you don't opt for that one especially that TAI engineers has expressed the need for more thrust

 

[Nilgiri]

Merzifonlu had a theory on this issue

It is not uncommon to see it design philosophy wise when you have two engines

The Russians/Soviets being notable in their incorporation of it....though someone correctly mentioned F-14 too, in fact I have a F-14 model sitting on my desk as I write this...

You can (potentially) generate a better lifting body characteristic this way (compared to squishing the engines together) and given weight and volume premium on aircraft.....use the fairing space in between to simultaneously address drogue housing, tailhook stowage, RWR and what have you for whichever tradeoff analysis you want in the empennage details.

Convergent evolution (i.e some optimal solution for pro/con tradeoff is universal in the end) better explains matters than speculating or assuming another's earlier blueprint dictated it.

Lot of 5th generation aircraft (or any generation in end) bear all kind of similarities in the end, because the same underlying criteria dictate the design in first place.

 

[Merzifonlu]

The Russians/Soviets being notable in their incorporation of it....

This!

As far as I know, the Soviets were designing aircraft to be able to respond to the F22 aircraft. However, it was never put into production. And remember, the stealth fighter idea was originally the idea of a Russian physicist.

Here's this guy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyotr_Ufimtsev

These Soviet guys, in the late '80s, could well have designed a stealth airframe. What could be more natural than to base that airframe design on? And that way you need less of the British.

Couldn't we, who received Ukrainian assistance in the auxiliary power unit, also get the airframe design from the same guys? Why did you some guys explode in anger at my words? Did you think I was an idiot who didn't know what to write?

 

[Nilgiri]

This!

As far as I know, the Soviets were designing aircraft to be able to respond to the F22 aircraft. However, it was never put into production. And remember, the stealth plane idea was originally the idea of a Russian physicist.

Here's this guy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyotr_Ufimtsev

These guys, in the late '80s, could well have designed a stealth hull. What could be more natural than to base that design on? And that way you need less of the British.

Couldn't we, who received Ukrainian assistance in the auxiliary power unit, also get the airframe design from the same guys? Why did you explode in anger at my words?

Did you think I was an idiot who didn't know what to write?

No anger here from my end my friend, and no I do not think you are "an idiot".

I just think TF-X is (aerodynamically and structurally) a clean sheet design from what I can see and it will have its solutions others in same 5th generation have found as well.

The spaced double engine approach is not one dictated by stealth consideration anyway, the F-14 for example is not stealthy, neither are the earlier generations of the Sukhoi family.

Su-57 preserving the overall design philosophy in the empennage arrangement still meant considerable work/trade-off in the RCS reduction that had to be done anyway. I do not see an implied natural connection with TF-X, at least without more evidence on this.

 

[Cypro]

OK MMU is really big aircraft, but the boom-like section between the two engine block cavities is a very unusual approach too, for western systems. It reminding that:
View attachment 50740

Same question come to my mind, it is absolutely more Soviet Style than Western. And probably it is an air-brake or a drogue parachute for short landing, some jets have it over fuselage some have it on tail, or just they are utilizing empty space between engines with something* TFX has a wide body to allow its internal weapon bays and engines have a gap between. It is usual to get inspired from some other designs, this does not have to be always western aircraft.

Most Soviet Jets have that tail boom which is for a drogue parachute. And FYI F16 has it too! a small extension over the engine like every other fighter jet, you can google and see. It depends on the placement of drogue parachute.

 

[Rodeo]

I've been browsing the internet for hours now and I must admit that the most stupid comments and questions are coming from Turks, not from Greeks or Iranians or any other ethnicities. It's clear that the project has some political gains but it would be the same for any country who achieves something this marvelous. Making fun of it and attributing to the elections is the biggest insult to the engineers. I wish we could get rid of this mindset and see the things as they are. Tomorrow you could go back to your old self and criticize everything as you would do but just take a step back and be proud today.

 

[Fuzuli NL]

Πρώτες φωτογραφίες και βίντεο από το τουρκικό μαχητικό TF-X - Πτήση

To πρωτότυπο του τουρκικού μαχητικού 5ης γενιάς, TF-X αποκάλυψε σήμερα ο Ismail Demir, επικεφαλής της Διεύθυνσης Αμυντικών Βιομηχανιών της Τουρκικής Προεδρίας, σε τελετή που έγινε στη γραμμή συναρμολόγησης της Turkish Aerospace. Το αεροσκάφος παρουσιάστηκε συναρμολογημένο με πλήρη άτρακτο και...

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This comment takes the biscuit. (Warning: excessive levels of copium)

Weasel (@weasel)

Member

8 hours ago

Well, I had to keep it a secret. But I will confide this only to the rest of the readers of Flight: just outside the military airport of Tripoli there are the secret facilities of the secret program of Greece (in cooperation with Egypt and Israel) which secretly develop the 6th (!) generation fighter anti-aircraft missile system of these countries.

 

[Jacop]

the assembly line was a surprise for me. It looks pretty professional. Turks are really revolutionizing their defense industry, but as far as I can see, there is a line of 2 jets.. is it enough for you?

 

[Rodeo]

the assembly line was a surprise for me. It looks pretty professional. Turks are really revolutionizing their defense industry, but as far as I can see, there is a line of 2 jets.. is it enough for you?

It's not an assembly line. It's a prototyping facility.

 

[Jacop]

It's not an assembly line. It's a prototyping facility.

Then I'm so sorry

 

[Zafer]

If each plane stays in the line for 30 days it meets the production plan of 24 planes per year.

 

[Jacop]

If each plane stays in the line for 30 days it meets the production plan of 24 planes per year.

wait a min, is this assembly or prototype line?

 

[Rodeo]

wait a min, is this assembly or prototype line?

It's technically the final assembly but it's for prototypes. I highly doubt if this building will be used for serial production.

 

[Zafer]

wait a min, is this assembly or prototype line?

There is no definition of it but why make different facilities for different phases if this one already meets requirements. They can work 3 shifts if required which is the equivalent of 90 days on station in terms of daytime work alone. I am just speculating.

Production is not for a certain number of planes like you finish them and close the line, it can be open indefinitely with slow production.

 

[Quasar]

There actually the more powerful GE-132, I wonder why you don't opt for that one especially that TAI engineers has expressed the need for more thrust

Logistics is almost like a religon for The Turkish army and we know F110-GE129E very well.

 

[Yasar_TR]

OK MMU is really big aircraft, but the boom-like section between the two engine block cavities is a very unusual approach too, for western systems. It reminding that:
View attachment 50740

So , would you say there could be some truth in what @merzifonlu was trying to point out before many here dismissed his view and blamed him with flat-earthing.
Clearly Tusas and BAE engineers have moved away a bit from classic western design approach when it comes to the rear part of the plane. Also the plane looks wider than most western counterparts and more akin to what the Soviets used. Although it has a lot of similarities with an F22, it is nice to see that our design engineers have moved away from 100% Western approach and developed a new design altogether.
It is no sin if we were aspired by the Soviet design a little; After all it was thanks to a Soviet Scientist called Pyotr Ufimtsev that the western scientists cracked the stealth technology as we know it today, after seven long years of deciphering his mathematical calculations on electromagnetic radio wave equations.

A Russian was behind the stealth revolution - Aeroflight

By Raul Colon On a clear August morning in 1979, in the Nevada desert, a detachment of United States Marines armed with the newest generation ground to air missile system on the U.S. arsenal, the vaunted HAWK, tried to score a hit against a new bird. The new air defense system utilized by the...

www.aeroflight.co.uk