TR F-16 Özgür | Hürkuş - Fighter Trainer Aircraft Projects

[Cabatli_TR]

F16 Block 30/40/50 aircraft will have common configuration

• Murad AESA
• FEWS AESA EW Self Protection Suit
• Gokdoğan BVR

 

[Radonsider]

Aselsan HUD project

View attachment 50971

For helicopters?

 

[Cabatli_TR]

Aselpod-2 project will start for new generation warplanes

 

[Radonsider]

Aselpod-2 project will start for new generation warplanes

View attachment 50978

I wonder hows BEOS, DAS (NAR) and IRST is going

 

[Khagan1923]

F16 Block 30/40/50 aircraft will have common configuration

• Murad AESA
• FEWS AESA EW Self Protection Suit
• Gokdoğan BVR

View attachment 50976

if the upgrading of Block 40 and 50 are possible then the whole F-16 deal should be cancelled.

if we can upgrade those planes ourselves it makes no sense to pay the Americans for the same upgrade. Also it would be a nice middle finger to those who slobbered around that they wouldn’t allow the deal to go through.

Buying new F16 Block 70 never made sense to me as we would get the first aircraft in like 5 years after signing the contract unless they are able to get production rights and we can manufacture the planes in Turkey.


instead we should try to order 48 EF T4 and cement partnerships with the Brits.

 

[Yasar_TR]

if the upgrading of Block 40 and 50 are possible then the whole F-16 deal should be cancelled.

if we can upgrade those planes ourselves it makes no sense to pay the Americans for the same upgrade. Also it would be a nice middle finger to those who slobbered around that they wouldn’t allow the deal to go through.

Buying new F16 Block 70 never made sense to me as we would get the first aircraft in like 5 years after signing the contract unless they are able to get production rights and we can manufacture the planes in Turkey.


instead we should try to order 48 EF T4 and cement partnerships with the Brits.

I think in order to keep negotiation doors open and also to be able to recoupe some of the 1.4 billion dollars we paid for the F35s we never received, we are keeping the F16V70 project alive.
Also we need to make up the numbers missing and/or will be missing in our f16 fleet for the interim period. But as you rightfully pointed out this could be compensated with EF2000 planes, provided we don’t run in to problems with the German side..
There is also the time issue. Fitting out couple of hundred f16s with Ozgur avionics and Murad Aesa radar is going to take a fair bit of time and money. F16V70 project can shorten this time as workload and financing the project will have been shared between us and the US. (I am thinking that we are looking for some form of credit scheme between governments to finance the f16V70 project)
But at the end of it we are not without options and could go for it on our own.

 

[Khagan1923]

I think in order to keep negotiation doors open and also to be able to recoupe some of the 1.4 billion dollars we paid for the F35s we never received, we are keeping the F16V70 project alive.
Also we need to make up the numbers missing and/or will be missing in our f16 fleet for the interim period. But as you rightfully pointed out this could be compensated with EF2000 planes, provided we don’t run in to problems with the German side..
There is also the time issue. Fitting out couple of hundred f16s with Ozgur avionics and Murad Aesa radar is going to take a fair bit of time and money. F16V70 project can shorten this time as workload and financing the project will have been shared between us and the US. (I am thinking that we are looking for some form of credit scheme between governments to finance the f16V70 project)
But at the end of it we are not without options and could go for it on our own.

Yes the biggest issues are recouping the money from the JSF program and time.

But I think the money could be recouped in a smarter way. Why not order AAM(AIM-120-D, AIM-9X Block II-II+) and various pods (Sniper, Legion IRST) for the existing fleet.

Time is a sensitive topic. We don’t know how fast LM would be able to modernize our planes as other countries will have priority due to having put in their orders earlier and due to foreign policy reasons for the US. We already saw Taiwan being pushed to the head of the line by the Pentagon. Who is to say they won’t push us down the ladder and delay the production and modernization of our planes because “reasons”.

maybe sharing the work between TAI and LM would circumvent this.
Then again one of the cons of having the Block 70 upgrade will be not being able to integrate Gökhan Ramjet AAM.

On another topic.
Could we offer this upgrade package to countries with older F-16? Pakistan as an example?

 

[Ecderha]

Yes the biggest issues are recouping the money from the JSF program and time.

But I think the money could be recouped in a smarter way. Why not order AAM(AIM-120-D, AIM-9X Block II-II+) and various pods (Sniper, Legion IRST) for the existing fleet.

Time is a sensitive topic. We don’t know how fast LM would be able to modernize our planes as other countries will have priority due to having put in their orders earlier and due to foreign policy reasons for the US. We already saw Taiwan being pushed to the head of the line by the Pentagon. Who is to say they won’t push us down the ladder and delay the production and modernization of our planes because “reasons”.

maybe sharing the work between TAI and LM would circumvent this.
Then again one of the cons of having the Block 70 upgrade will be not being able to integrate Gökhan Ramjet AAM.

On another topic.
Could we offer this upgrade package to countries with older F-16? Pakistan as an example?

"But I think the money could be recouped in a smarter way." I agree with you logic but those money were stolen by usa to show Turkiye
that they can and that usa can not follow agreements.


"Why not order AAM(AIM-120-D, AIM-9X Block II-II+) and various pods (Sniper, Legion IRST) for the existing fleet."
I can NOT understand this one!
Turkiye is still under embargo by usa. What orders you talking about?

 

[TheInsider]

Özgür project will be a long one TAF is planning to upgrade all block 30-40-50 fighters before the FOC of the first MMU squadron(2030). The project will gain pace starting from 2024 after Murad AESA, FEWS, and national AA missiles are integrated into F-16.

 

[Lool]

Truly, thank God Turkey escaped from the F35 program
The number of screw-ups is just crazy mate; just imagining TuAF depending solely on the F35 and ppl will realise that it was a blessing from God that Turkey got kicked out of the F35 program in multiple ways

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598382599986184197

 

[YeşilVatan]

Özgür project will be a long one TAF is planning to upgrade all block 30-40-50 fighters before the FOC of the first MMU squadron(2030). The project will gain pace starting from 2024 after Murad AESA, FEWS, and national AA missiles are integrated into F-16.

I think people don't really get TuAF's future planning. What I get from open sources as an amateur is this:

All missions involving land bombardment is going to be done via unmanned systems. Currently, there are very few benefits of using F-16's and not drones. If we have more Akıncı's working, F-16's are going to be obsolete regarding air-land missions.

Air-air missions will be handled by F-16's, maybe supported by Kızılelmas (if Baykar can deliver them as quickly as they claim). But the heavy lifting will be done by AWACS, huge amounts of drones carrying BVRAAMs, and a layered air defense system. All of this will be connected (network centric warfare).

F-16's in this scenario occupy only a part. An important part, but not the absolute critical part. Which means we can cannibalize F-16's and maintain a fleet of about 80-100 of them and still be a first grade airforce. Even stronger than we are right now.

 

[Nutuk]

Never put all the eggs in one basket!

Yes our drones as bombers and fighters get more and more important, but do not make the mistake of neglecting the fighter aircraft force.

We have to keep our F16's tip top as well

 

[YeşilVatan]

I agree, but we use them like 93 Renault Toros already. These planes will start to cause excessive reliability and maintainance problems in about five years (that's my uneducated guess, btw). We need to be ready to cannibalize some to keep others airworthy, so they can fulfill the role I described.

We would have more firepower with less F-16's that way and it would be temporary anyway, because TF-X comes after a few years of what I described.

 

[Nutuk]

I agree, but we use them like 93 Renault Toros already. These planes will start to cause excessive reliability and maintainance problems in about five years (that's my uneducated guess, btw). We need to be ready to cannibalize some to keep others airworthy, so they can fulfill the role I described.

We would have more firepower with less F-16's that way and it would be temporary anyway, because TF-X comes after a few years of what I described.

Why canibalize? TAI can manufacture almost all parts and certain parts that are not produced is because it is cheaper to import them

 

[YeşilVatan]

Why canibalize? TAI can manufacture almost all parts and certain parts that are not produced is because it is cheaper to import them

I haven't thought about it that way, I think you're right. Question, if we replace and modernize every single part of the plane over a period of time, is it technically the same plane?

Edit: With regards to law and treaties and such.

 

[Nutuk]

I haven't thought about it that way, I think you're right. Question, if we replace and modernize every single part of the plane over a period of time, is it technically the same plane?

Edit: With regards to law and treaties and such.

Well, with the blk30 we practically do this already.

But replacing all single parts does not make sense, buying a brand new more modern fighter over time makes more sense. Do you want to use a 2000 model Mercedes of which you replace all parts or do you want to have a 2022 model?

 

[YeşilVatan]

Well, with the blk30 we practically do this already.

But replacing all single parts does not make sense, buying a brand new more modern fighter over time makes more sense. Do you want to use a 2000 model Mercedes of which you replace all parts or do you want to have a 2022 model?

If the car salesman is an obnoxious bully brimming with hubris who refuses to sell the newer car...

 

[Nutuk]

If the car salesman is an obnoxious bully brimming with hubris who refuses to sell the newer car...

Exactly, with Blk 30 we do it out of embargoes not because it is financially the best solution

 

[BalkanTurk90]

We need to be carefully about next 10 years , wr csn became weak in airforce .
I suggest
1) no fancy new aircrafts to buy from other like 10 billion for 30 or 40 but i suggest 40 very cheap used eurofighters for some 2 billion and free to upgrande like we wish .
2) Building drones jets like kizilelma and TISU in mass to compesate low number of aircrafts
3) Upgrading all f16 but still 230 jets is liw number for Turkiye , having opponents all around .
4) We are building TFX but if we look F35 , Su57 , aslo Tfx can be problematic at first dalaying its mass production by 2031 or even later , thats why we should act faster and smarter next 10 years .

 

[Hasanrize]

Well, with the blk30 we practically do this already.

But replacing all single parts does not make sense, buying a brand new more modern fighter over time makes more sense. Do you want to use a 2000 model Mercedes of which you replace all parts or do you want to have a 2022 model?

There is no old aircraft, there is under maintenance. Sometimes you just want to keep the old model with modification, just like the USA keeps the B-52 fleet instead of changing them with a brand new B-2.