TR UAV/UCAV Programs | Anka - series | Kızılelma | TB - series

[Merzifonlu]

I thought a lot about how to use the Akıncı&KE pair. With your permission, I will share these ideas here as well.

Let's start with the engines of these platforms. First of all, I think we should make Akıncı's engines one type. And we should choose these engines from TS-1400 derived turbo prop engines. It should be our first job after Gökbey integration. As for KE, we have a significant amount of AI-25TLT engines, including spare engines. We were able to produce with those engines until the TF-6000/10000 matures.

If Akıncı and Kızılelma don't have engine problems, and it seems that they don't, I think our goal should not only be to reduce burden of F16s with them. Instead, we should aim to replace our entire fleet of F16s with a fleet of drones, if necessary! So, whether the USA sells us F16s or not, we shouldn't need F16s.

All right, but how do we do this?

Here's what I'm thinking: We're going to use Akıncı as an "in air sniper". KE will be the "in air soldier" fighting on the front line. Some Akıncıs (missile trucks) will carry guided artillery rockets, cruise missiles and very long range air-to-air missiles. Some Akıncıs will be scouts, namely "UAV AWACS". Some KEs will engage in air-to-air combat. And some KEs will also make an air-ground attack.

Thus, with the (Akıncı&KE) duo, any task done with our F16s can be performed. IMO we can reach this goal in just 3 years.

 

[zio]

Akıncı & KE duo use is not a good idea,one is lowRCS the other one is highRCS,you do not want to sacrifice RCS value of KE.

 

[AzeriTank]

Akıncı & KE duo use is not a good idea,one is lowRCS the other one is highRCS,you do not want to sacrifice RCS value of KE.

He probably mean ke for air to air and akinji for air to ground

 

[YeşilVatan]

I thought a lot about how to use the Akıncı&KE pair. With your permission, I will share these ideas here as well.

Let's start with the engines of these platforms. First of all, I think we should make Akıncı's engines one type. And we should choose these engines from TS-1400 derived turbo prop engines. It should be our first job after Gökbey integration. As for KE, we have a significant amount of AI-25TLT engines, including spare engines. We were able to produce with those engines until the TF-6000/10000 matures.

If Akıncı and Kızılelma don't have engine problems, and it seems that they don't, I think our goal should not only be to reduce burden of F16s with them. Instead, we should aim to replace our entire fleet of F16s with a fleet of drones, if necessary! So, whether the USA sells us F16s or not, we shouldn't need F16s.

All right, but how do we do this?

Here's what I'm thinking: We're going to use Akıncı as an "in air sniper". KE will be the "in air soldier" fighting on the front line. Some Akıncıs (missile trucks) will carry guided artillery rockets, cruise missiles and very long range air-to-air missiles. Some Akıncıs will be scouts, namely "UAV AWACS". Some KEs will engage in air-to-air combat. And some KEs will also make an air-ground attack.

Thus, with the (Akıncı&KE) duo, any task done with our F16s can be performed. IMO we can reach this goal in just 3 years.

Good point. I can extend this one a bit. For A2A miisions, my thinking goes like this:

1- First things first; we need eyes. AWACS, mini-AWACS (Akıncı variant, maybe), relay drones,

2- Next thing is to pin the enemy and conduct aerial combat in relatively close distances. This is Kızılelma's domain, for sure. But because the aim is to "fix" the enemy, so we can use less expensive options, like Şimşek. Also, some othe UAV's may be designated and armed as bait. I think this role is hella important.

3- In the end, we need something to destroy the enemy attack aircraft. Kızılelma's can do this from far or from close. But I think if we are talking about a near-peer, our best bet would be a drone that can reach very high altitudes, has very little RCS, firing multiple BVRAAMs. My dream scenario is Anka-3 a.k.a. TİSU being this.

4- Also, we need a cheap MALE drone hunter. I imagine a more agile and unmanned Hürkuş would be perfect for it. Engaging enemy UAVs WW2 style. Would be very cheap, too. They could take on the role of bait as well.

Needless to say, I'm just an enthusiastic amateur. So take this info with a grain of salt.

 

[Bürküt]

Good point. I can extend this one a bit. For A2A miisions, my thinking goes like this:

1- First things first; we need eyes. AWACS, mini-AWACS (Akıncı variant, maybe), relay drones,

2- Next thing is to pin the enemy and conduct aerial combat in relatively close distances. This is Kızılelma's domain, for sure. But because the aim is to "fix" the enemy, so we can use less expensive options, like Şimşek. Also, some othe UAV's may be designated and armed as bait. I think this role is hella important.

3- In the end, we need something to destroy the enemy attack aircraft. Kızılelma's can do this from far or from close. But I think if we are talking about a near-peer, our best bet would be a drone that can reach very high altitudes, has very little RCS, firing multiple BVRAAMs. My dream scenario is Anka-3 a.k.a. TİSU being this.

4- Also, we need a cheap MALE drone hunter. I imagine a more agile and unmanned Hürkuş would be perfect for it. Engaging enemy UAVs WW2 style. Would be very cheap, too. They could take on the role of bait as well.

Needless to say, I'm just an enthusiastic amateur. So take this info with a grain of salt.

Why do we need unmanned Hürkuş? I think it's a bit of fantasy. We can just use Akıncı with aesa radar as a drone hunter.

 

[YeşilVatan]

Why do we need unmanned Hürkuş? I think it's a bit of fantasy. We can just use Akıncı with aesa radar as a drone hunter.

Mostly for cost. No guided munitions, 80 years old tech, ease of mass production etc.

Edit: I just thought of something. This concept could very well be the "wing loong hunter" for our allies. Drone proliferation is already here. Everyone and their moms are going to acquire MALE UCAV's or at least try to. What I propose is a UCAV that fulfills the role of bait and UCAV destroyer. They can attack other slow moving targets such as helicopters too, if programmed. Even ground targets, maybe. They'll just have 20mm cannons, maybe something lighter. Good agility for a turboprop. I don't see why not.

Look at the costs: A ww2 level motor, ww2 level airframe, semi-decent radar (non-AESA), auto-cannon, comm link, mission computer, sensors. Only thing that will cost real money will be sensors and maybe the mission computer. I think we can produce this en masse for very little cost. Everything is within our means.

 

[Zafer]

Hürjet can speed up to 575 km/h which can make a difference in some cases whereas Akıncı can go as fast as 370 km/h. 55% faster.

 

[Bürküt]

Mostly for cost. No guided munitions, 80 years old tech, ease of mass production etc.

Edit: I just thought of something. This concept could very well be the "wing loong hunter" for our allies. Drone proliferation is already here. Everyone and their moms are going to acquire MALE UCAV's or at least try to. What I propose is a UCAV that fulfills the role of bait and UCAV destroyer. They can attack other slow moving targets such as helicopters too, if programmed. Even ground targets, maybe. They'll just have 20mm cannons, maybe something lighter. Good agility for a turboprop. I don't see why not.

Look at the costs: A ww2 level motor, ww2 level airframe, semi-decent radar (non-AESA), auto-cannon, comm link, mission computer, sensors. Only thing that will cost real money will be sensors and maybe the mission computer. I think we can produce this en masse for very little cost. Everything is within our means.

I think it's not economic to transform a basic trainer aircraft to a spesific drone hunter which has only 20mm cannons.We have different flexible platforms which we can use effectively.I don't think it's cost effective.

Hürjet can speed up to 575 km/h which can make a difference in some cases whereas Akıncı can go as fast as 370 km/h. 55% faster.

Then we can use KE with 20 mm gun pod on it's wing if the speed is problem.

 

[YeşilVatan]

Hürjet can speed up to 575 km/h which can make a difference in some cases whereas Akıncı can go as fast as 370 km/h. 55% faster.

Yeah, but Akıncı is more valuable and its means of A2A combat is expensive. I'm talking about a reusable system. 20mm cannons, cheap as hell. Essentially an automated MALE drone hunter.

One is lost? No biggie. Was is anti-air? counterbattery fire. Was it other aircraft? KE.

I can't calculate how economic or useful this might be. But seems doable. I feel this thing would have export potential for armed forces who are struggling with enemy drones but have no money.

 

[I_Love_F16]

Hürjet can speed up to 575 km/h

Hurkus you mean ?

 

[YeşilVatan]

I think it's not economic to transform a basic trainer aircraft to a spesific drone hunter which has only 20mm cannons.We have different flexible platforms which we can use effectively.I don't think it's cost effective.

Then we can use KE with 20 mm gun pod on it's wing if the speed is problem.

Cost effectiveness side, I don't know. But keeping a few of these things in the air would deny enemy UCAVs the airspace and costs pennies to operate. Cheap ammunition, too. I think it would be a good investment.

Akıncı gun pod thing wouldn't cut it, Akıncı is not agile enough and I'm not sure its airframe is suited for gun pods strapped to its wings.

 

[Zafer]

Yeah, but Akıncı is more valuable and its means of A2A combat is expensive. I'm talking about a reusable system. 20mm cannons, cheap as hell. Essentially an automated MALE drone hunter.

One is lost? No biggie. Was is anti-air? counterbattery fire. Was it other aircraft? KE.

I can't calculate how economic or useful this might be. But seems doable. I feel this thing would have export potential for armed forces who are struggling with enemy drones but have no money.

I am talking "in some cases" when taking out the target is more neceessary than saving money.

 

[Zafer]

Hurkus you mean ?

Hürkuş too, Hürjet can speed even faster.

 

[Zafer]

You want a diversified toolset in your toolbox just in case the little extra capability can make a difference and win you a war. Having the platform already takes you 90% of the way already and you need to add a 10% to get there.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

The moments before takeoff

 

[dBSPL]

The moments before takeoff

Like Neil Amstrong's first steps on moon.

But this time, it is not about the beginning of man's space adventure, but the first steps towards an age of machines that can think and function like humankind.

 

[Rodeo]

Like Neil Amstrong's first steps on moon.

But this time, it is not about the beginning of man's space adventure, but the first steps towards an age of machines that can think and function like humankind.

Time to rewatch Matrix Trilogy.

 

[Bürküt]

Cost effectiveness side, I don't know. But keeping a few of these things in the air would deny enemy UCAVs the airspace and costs pennies to operate. Cheap ammunition, too. I think it would be a good investment.

Akıncı gun pod thing wouldn't cut it, Akıncı is not agile enough and I'm not sure its airframe is suited for gun pods strapped to its wings.

I'm thinking a little bit more logisticly. For me it doesn't make sense to make a special platform for every special mission , it would be a logistic nightmare. Besides , there are many ground and air systems on a wide scale. Some of them already developed or under developement.

 

[Zafer]

Like Neil Amstrong's first steps on moon.

But this time, it is not about the beginning of man's space adventure, but the first steps towards an age of machines that can think and function like humankind.

And we are not faking it, we are making it.

 

[YeşilVatan]

I'm thinking a little bit more logisticly. For me it doesn't make sense to make a special platform for every special mission , it would be a logistic nightmare. Besides , there are many ground and air systems on a wide scale. Some of them already developed or under developement.

One would think another kind of UAV would cause immense logistics problems, but this wouldn't be so. You have fuel and ammunition. But most mechanical parts are WW2 tech. The concept is very cost and logistics friendly. Instead of expending tens of millions of dollars for air defence against cheap MALE UCAVs, I think just a couple millions can create a capable fleet of these planes.

Developing its brain is the hard part. It needs to be able to hunt targets with its cannon. Even better news: it can down a lot of UAVs! Just 4-5 can (conceptually) take care of tens of UAVs or scare them off (if detected).

Case in point: Libya. Enemy uses wing loongs. We use anti-air countermeasures ranging from missiles to fucking laser weapons. I firmly believe if these weapons existed, we would solve that problem with a couple million bucks and wouldn't lose the planes either.

Anyway, there are more creative and informed people in this forum than me. But I don't find it convincing that logistics problem is the reason we don't create these.