Indonesia Casual Discussion Warkop Indonesia

[Umigami]

We have to spread "freedom" to Myanmar and depose the regime then, I will enlist as lieutenant in such an event

Operation Myanmarese Fredom


JK... doesn't have enough muscle and guts to do that

 

[Madokafc]

We have to spread "freedom" to Myanmar and depose the regime then, I will enlist as lieutenant in such an event

i am asking about reality here

what we will be gained from such military operation to justify such intervention? economy gain? security gain? regional influences gain?

what would be happened if the risk of failure is much larger than success? there is other more viasible plan?

what kind of risk the Indonesian must facing?

how much budget needed?

How long such intervention would last?

and how much sacrifice needed to achieve minimum objective?

 

[RadenSudirman]

what we will be gained from such military operation to justify such intervention? economy gain? security gain? regional influences gain?

Yes

what would be happened if the risk of failure is much larger than success? there is other more viasible plan?

It would be necessary to increase the probability of success

To do that, hire competent dudes in the necessary numbers, to plan, and execute it

what kind of risk the Indonesian must facing?

Any possible risk, but if possible must be kept at minimum while still attaining the objective

how much budget needed?

The necessary amount and more

How long such intervention would last?

As short as possible

and how much sacrifice needed to achieve minimum objective?

As minimum as possible

 

[chibiyabi]

We have to spread "freedom" to Myanmar and depose the regime then, I will enlist as lieutenant in such an event

then, we should ready to play "petak umpet " with china, ask : are we ready?????

 

[RadenSudirman]

then, we should ready to play "petak umpet " with china, ask : are we ready?????

It is very possible that these mf would intervene, Myanmar is one of their backyard, and they have a lot of backyards. At various times in history China launched invasion to Myanmar for their interest but mostly only temporarily, never long-term occupation.

Let's face reality, ASEAN is disfunctional, the organization has no balls and there will never be, because we castrate ourselves with "ASEAN way" of non-intervention. But what about foreign countries? the irony is that ASEAN member cannot intervene one another, but every other world powers can, genius, what a frickin genius system. China is using ASEAN against ASEAN, since nobody can intervene the policy of one another, China can easily use divide and conquer to dominate ASEAN one by one, that's why their diplomat clearly declare that China will resolve every dispute via "bilateral relations", textbook divide and conquer.

The day China invade Southeast Asia, what will happen is this: Myanmar, Cambodia and Laos will join China from the beginning, China will rush Philippines and Vietnam and will get bogged in one or both of them, Thailand will switch side pretending to be forced, Malaysia and Singapore will do the same but at a later point after being attacked and Singapore in particular will cooperate with China to facilitate attack on Indonesia.

So the key of Southeast Asia is Indonesia, we are the only one with the individual potential to turn the tide against foreign powers and gain Southeast Asia back. But in order to achieve that, we have be 1. powerful, 2. decisive, 3. pragmatic, all of which is currently not the condition of ours due to corrupted, crooked self-serving old men, and another set of people so naive that they believe in diplomatic utopia where talks and BS will win the day instead of power.

 

[NEKO]

Myanmar Junta used ASEAN to lessen the pressure from the outside(US and Europe), because they know that ASEAN don't like other power to intervene in matter related to south east asia and at the same time they also know that ASEAN is just a soft tofu thus they are playing around with ASEAN and keep giving false promise and drag things as long as possible.
The west encourage ASEAN to solve Myanmar issue and the Myanmar junta keep playing the ASEAN like a fiddle.

The refuge issue even caused brexit and divide among the EU members, and here we are just keep calm about it.

 

[schuimpjes]

Soedjatmoko

Digging about this guy and looks like history about 50s–mid 60s political fights were involved by much more than commonly known.

Manikebu people were actually filled by many of his Gelanggang people that its Suara Kepercayaan Gelanggang was published through his Siasat magazine, the so called de facto PSI magazine. One of the people was H.B Jassin that he also the redaktur of Siasat. Pramoedya was in Gelanggang before, but then went to its rival, Lekra.

This Gelanggang of Soedjatmoko which he became kind of like the handler(?) of this after Chairil Anwar passed away, fought against Lekra with the values or ideology that called as Humanisme Universal. This very thing looks like the point that made these people had pragmatic economic approach and pro-democratic stance during 80s or even before, that Goenawan Mohammad’s Tempo had that stance during that era.

Not just Tempo, but looks like Jakob Oetama and PK Ojong of Kompas also same. Jakob Oetama said that he and PK Ojong were liked to came to events of PSI during the 50s. Even Kompas bought Soedjatmoko’s house in Solo that he was lived there after dropped out from STOVIA for against Japan Military Government occupation. That house now Gramedia Slamet Riyadi. Btw, history of Kompas also interesting.

 

[Umigami]

 

[Lordimperator]

RIP for the soldiers, ironically the malfunctions Norinco gun happened at Natuna.

 

[RadenSudirman]

Digging about this guy and looks like history about 50s–mid 60s political fights were involved by much more than commonly known.

Manikebu people were actually filled by many of his Gelanggang people that its Suara Kepercayaan Gelanggang was published through his Siasat magazine, the so called de facto PSI magazine. One of the people was H.B Jassin that he also the redaktur of Siasat. Pramoedya was in Gelanggang before, but then went to its rival, Lekra.

This Gelanggang of Soedjatmoko which he became kind of like the handler(?) of this after Chairil Anwar passed away, fought against Lekra with the values or ideology that called as Humanisme Universal. This very thing looks like the point that made these people had pragmatic economic approach and pro-democratic stance during 80s or even before, that Goenawan Mohammad’s Tempo had that stance during that era.

Not just Tempo, but looks like Jakob Oetama and PK Ojong of Kompas also same. Jakob Oetama said that he and PK Ojong were liked to came to events of PSI during the 50s. Even Kompas bought Soedjatmoko’s house in Solo that he was lived there after dropped out from STOVIA for against Japan Military Government occupation. That house now Gramedia Slamet Riyadi. Btw, history of Kompas also interesting.

Soedjatmoko is so idealistic that he cannot do anything

 

[RadenSudirman]

Guys, China is the master of putting a facade, make themselves look good on the surface, but the inside we can't really know. Repeatedly we are presented with malfunctioning chinese weapons, ranging from exploding AA gun, to their new infantry weapon that spin bullets vertically (keyholing). Heck even their stealth J-20 and J-31 are faulty, not a real stealth 5th and now they are working on new 5th gen, there is no other possible reason to believe that the previous planes were fake 5th gen.

Heck maybe their Dong Feng is as fake like their cardboard dumpling and tofu dreg projects. I think they are not to be overestimated at all, else we cannot see their weaknesses (which is many if you look closely)

 

[R4duga]

Guys, China is the master of putting a facade, make themselves look good on the surface, but the inside we can't really know. Repeatedly we are presented with malfunctioning chinese weapons, ranging from exploding AA gun, to their new infantry weapon that spin bullets vertically (keyholing). Heck even their stealth J-20 and J-31 are faulty, not a real stealth 5th and now they are working on new 5th gen, there is no other possible reason to believe that the previous planes were fake 5th gen.

Heck maybe their Dong Feng is as fake like their cardboard dumpling and tofu dreg projects. I think they are not to be overestimated at all, else we cannot see their weaknesses (which is many if you look closely)

this is what i actually see on their latest export variants of self propelled howitzer, so much unnecessary cool looking like fairing/panel/barrel cover.

At the very least if we wanted to buy something from china, buy something that were used by their own armed forces and not export variant whatsoever.

 

[schuimpjes]

Soedjatmoko is so idealistic that he cannot do anything

He was didubeskan that many people said during Soeharto era that position was used to buang people he didn’t like. According to Sumual Ventje, guy that also involved in Permesta, Harto didn’t like PSI people because he considered them as sombong and sok pintar lol. But eventhough he was didubeskan, he still could changed Nurcholis Madjid in US.

Permesta itself also interesting tho, Alex Kawilarang of Kopassus predecessor was athan for US before he came back to Indonesia to joined Permesta lol. AUREV made of CIA CAT (Air America predecessor) went brrrr

Guys, China is the master of putting a facade, make themselves look good on the surface, but the inside we can't really know.

Potemkin village is very possible when you have controlled information space situation of authoritarian state(s) like PRC, including about their military power. You can put beautiful facade of utopian things without anyone could ‘checked’ that because lack of freedom of speech.

 

[Madokafc]

Another high profile meeting with presiden, menkeu and Menko Polhukam

Prabowo Bertemu Jokowi di Istana

Menteri Pertahanan (Menhan) Prabowo Subianto bertemu Presiden Joko Widodo (Jokowi). Pertemuan digelar di Istana Kepresidenan, Jakarta Pusat.

news.detik.com

 

[Umigami]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611556800482148352

 

[Madokafc]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611556800482148352

 

[schuimpjes]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1611556800482148352

Our economic relations with them are just so big that it is even mean big loss to us if that stop. Export destination is biggest there, import also, investments and BRI for infrastructures that very important to make perputaran uang, trade etc faster compared if we have bad infrastructures. Imagine big chunk of trade and developments stop, how many people would loss their jobs and affecting our economy?

Atlantic Council actually wrote about D10 (Democracies 10) that meant to collectively fight against Chinese economic influence especially. But I don’t know, it is kind of just a dusty papers until now and no realization, except just done by Atlantic Council itself and not something like G20 or alike. Even though Atlantic Council is a non-governmental think tank, something like this is very influential to make change.

Edit: Kalo emang komitmen sama D10 itu, Pemerintah bisa banget lawatan ke luar negeri ngomong ke mereka untuk buat D10 jadi lebih dari sekarang yang cuman diadain sama think tank dan jadi organisasi established. Bakal tertulis terus misal itu terjadi kalo Indonesia yang ngerih-ngerih mereka buat D10 jadi organisasi.

 

[schuimpjes]

Export destination is biggest there

If D10 is based, it is very possible for us to replace export to PRC to the D10 countries by agreements to cartelizing it. So if they need that certain commodities, they must buy it from Indonesia, if not, we sell it to China again lol, we need countries to buy our commodities.

 

[Umigami]

Did something bantingan happen?

 

[R4duga]

Did something bantingan happen?

budget proposed for defence suddenly were allocated for 2nd naypyidaw construction in borneo island ?