TR Turkish Air Forces|News & Discussion

[Chocopie]

Yes but the IP rights of volvo engine which is a version of the F404 belongs to Sweden

Only the IP rights for parts the Swedes themselves had developed. 65% of the engine were produced by GE (e.g. hot core/section the most important part) with all IP rights belonging to GE delivered for final assembly in Sweden. The Swedes can't manufacture their F404 without GE.

 

[Chocopie]

According to what the Kale Director had explained, my understanding of the offer involves a deal between Turkey and TAEC (Kale/RR 51/49 partnership) in such a way that TAEC is to have the IP rights. Therefore RR is not relinquishing its hold on the engine that is to be developed. But TAEC can redevelop the engine in the future, with RR’s consent.
How much technology RR is going to release so that Kale is to be able to become a second TEI, is another story.

Ah, now I understand what everbody meant here regarding "IP rights". How much technology RR would release in a deal? Maximum as least as possible I guess

 

[Yasar_TR]

Only the IP rights for parts the Swedes themselves had developed. 65% of the engine were produced by GE (e.g. hot core/section the most important part) with all IP rights belonging to GE delivered for final assembly in Sweden. The Swedes can't manufacture their F404 without GE.

An engine is an entity in its own right. If it is called f404 then no matter how many parts or how much of it is produced by Volvo or TEI or IHI, it’s IP rights stay with GE. Without GE’s permission they can not produce the whole engine and they can not develop the engine to a more upgraded level.
Your last sentence puts the full stop on the discussion.

 

[Windchime]

Quite likely!
They would not have forwarded their offer if they had not have a design in hand already , as we would not have entertained their offer.
From what is discussed it looks like they are developing an engine for Tempest project using technologies present in the Pearl engines, like the Blisks in both fan stage and compressor stage.
Pearl engine is smaller in size than what is needed for TFX. But can already develop up to 20000lbf dry thrust, enabling the commercial plane it powers to fly transonic (going in to supersonic domain intermittently). Using this tech in their new engines they can produce a version of it for the TFX that would suffice for a 5th generation plane’s needs.

Have a look at TFX thread my post #5282?

Like I've said in TF-X thread as a reply to your post back then on posts 5295 and 5313, GCAP engine will be based on the Anglo-Japanese design based on RR XG240 and IHI XF9.

No, it doesn't have any direct link to Orpheus and even less to the Pearl family of engines, which are built for biz jets.

 

[Turan]

IP for jet engine technology is more worth in the long run than cashing billions of dollars in the short run. Can‘t imagine that RR would give up the core assets of its business. Why should they? License production is the most realistic deal.

i wanted to say the same thing

 

[what]

There is nothing on BBC, the source is a shady twitter user = fake news.

 

[Lool]

At first I thought that the arms procurement talks were fake since Turkishfacts4u reported it but ragip soylu is also reporting something similar; thus, we can safely assume that the deal is actually true and talks are still ongoing

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1616531171990544385

 

[Nutuk]

“Once they are delivered, the upgrades and the modernisation of command and control systems would take at least 18 months to two years,” the source added.

I can't imagine that our navy is even considering this crap.

Supose taking into service: 6 - 12 months
command and control system: 18 - 24 months.

WTF? Why even bother? In 3 years we can build indigenous brandnew ships with VLS systems, own AA missiles.

Such a purchase would border treason

 

[Yasar_TR]

Like I've said in TF-X thread as a reply to your post back then on posts 5295 and 5313, GCAP engine will be based on the Anglo-Japanese design based on RR XG240 and IHI XF9.

No, it doesn't have any direct link to Orpheus and even less to the Pearl family of engines, which are built for biz jets.

According to this video RR, with Orpheus engine, intends to use technologies within it for the Tempest engine project.
Tempest engine will be an Adaptive Cycle engine. But according to this video, it will also have components of technology that will relate it to the Orpheus.

 

[Windchime]

According to this video RR, with Orpheus engine, intends to use technologies within it for the Tempest engine project.
Tempest engine will be an Adaptive Cycle engine. But according to this video, it will also have components of technology that will relate it to the Orpheus.

Go back and read my post 5313 on TF-X thread again. I've already answered regarding this video you've posted here/back then on the TF-X thread.

Long story short, RR will develop and test some new techniques of development and manufacturing processes with Orpheus. Obviously this will trickle down into their later engines. This however doesn't mean the GCAP engine will be "based" on Orpheus/Pearl, as you've said. Those are two very different statements.

 

[Anmdt]

I can't imagine that our navy is even considering this crap.

They have good collection of evaluation forms.
What is bugging me the most, most of the people speaking on this matter have no idea of which platforms were evaluated by TN in last 10 years.

 

[Bogeyman]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1619763509922766848

 

[Heartbang]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1619763509922766848

With all due respect, dafuq can he do?

 

[GoatsMilk]

With all due respect, dafuq can he do?

Nothing. All this loud mouth barking is just for domestic consumption, ak party voter love all the tough talk even if their politicians are constantly losing. Get booted out the F35 then go begging for inferior F16's and get rejected and then talk like you hold any cards. AK party politics baby, total failure.

 

[I_Love_F16]

Nothing. All this loud mouth barking is just for domestic consumption, ak party voter love all the tough talk even if their politicians are constantly losing. Get booted out the F35 then go begging for inferior F16's and get rejected and then bark like you hold any cards. AK party politics baby, total failure.

Exactly. Just empty talks, as always. He shouldn't have bought that Shitty 400 at the beginning. Now we are without F-35's and F-16's.

 

[GoatsMilk]

Exactly. Just empty talks, as always. He shouldn't have bought that Shitty 400 at the beginning. Now we are without F-35's and F-16's.

its like all the bullshit "We can come suddenly one night" when in reality he's begging them for an opening.

S400 was a russian trap and the political islamists dived head first into. Just failure after failure from these guys. Greece will be loving watching AK party crippling Turkiye's relationship with the west.

If the Turkish fighter jet turns out to be a failure, these next 50 years are going to be really difficult for Turkiye.

 

[Brokengineer]

Exactly. Just empty talks, as always. He shouldn't have bought that Shitty 400 at the beginning. Now we are without F-35's and F-16's.

Are you sure that we are going to have the f35s, if we do not receive s400. Of course, it wont, given how misaligned US-TR relationship in many cases. Instead of fooling ourselves, we need to accept the truth.
If you blame the government with its foreign policy with US, then i may understand complaint.
Do not forget that Turkish military industry exists today due to sanctions have been applied for decades.

 

[GoatsMilk]

Are you sure that we are going to have the f35s, if we do not receive s400. Of course, it wont, given how misaligned US-TR relationship in many cases. Instead of fooling ourselves, we need to accept the truth.
If you blame the government with its foreign policy with US, then i may understand complaint.
Do not forget that Turkish military industry exists today due to sanctions have been applied for decades.

I've been of the opinion for a long long time that the USA will always look to screw Turkiye. The problem is that doesnt mean you make it easy for them. Its like a football match the oppositions wants to score against you, that doesnt mean you take the ball and put in your own net.

Joining the american/isreali war against Assad was another own goal scored by the political islamists. Only after the americans got their YPG state in Syria did the media narrative shift to Turks killing Kurds from Turks fighting PKK sepratists.

These guys are not there to become super wealthy, they are there to win for the nation and get results. Thats all, no more and no less.

Everything rests on the TFX succeeding, because if it doesnt we are facing really difficult times. Because you could face a situation 20 years from now where your rivals have the best fighter jets going while Turkiye is trying to keep her old f16 fleet operational, while the USA messes us about when trying to obtain parts for them.

 

[Cypro]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1619763509922766848

Actually Biden did whatever he can, which was really surprising. But just like how some don't understand how a guy can burn a quran in the street, they can't understand separation of powers, democracy etc. Most of AKP voters and even members think whole world is working like their one guy system.. Sure Biden can decide / give them whenever he wants and not giving because he does not want, ironically probably the US will give F16s but I think RTE will sabotage the deal in favor of elections and populism.

 

[Heartbang]

Actually Biden did whatever he can, which was really surprising. But just like how some don't understand how a guy can burn a quran in the street, they can't understand separation of powers, democracy etc. Most of AKP voters and even members think whole world is working like their one guy system.. Sure Biden can decide / give them whenever he wants and not giving because he does not want, ironically probably the US will give F16s but I think RTE will sabotage the deal in favor of elections and populism.

Is he going to litigate this matter in the US courts?