Analysis Turkish Type Fast Attack Craft (TT-FAC, TTHB) Project in a nutshell

The Turkish Type Fast Attack Craft Project (Türk Tipi Hücumbot - TTHB, in Turkish), also known as the Next Generation Fast Patrol Boat Project (NG-FBP) of the Turkish Navy, first appears in documents published by the Undersecretariat of Defence Industries (now the Presidency of Defence Industries) in 2008. The aim of the project is stated as;

"Meeting the future needs of the Turkish Navy, providing the design of a new FAC to replace the ageing classes".

Spoiler: Nomenclature

NM = Nautical Mile
BS = Beaufort Scale
FAC = Fast Attack Craft
FPB = Fast Patrol Boat
LOA = Length Overall
LWL = Length Waterline
DWL = Design Waterline
GT = Gas Turbine
DE = Diesel Engine
RG = Reduction Gear
EW = Electronic Warfare
EA = Electronic Attack
ED = Electronic Defense
IR = Infra-red
AShM = Anti-Ship Missile
SFOC = Specific Fuel-Oil Consumption

Background to the TTHB project and the early stages of the Request for Information (RFI) issued by SSM​

The Turkish Navy's first inclination was to acquire a Fast Attack Craft solution based on a composite structure that offered a light structure, naturally low RCS and IR & Acoustic signature, and armour protection by Kevlar that could be easily upgraded. Yonca-Onuk, manufacturer of the MRTP (Multi-Role Tactical Platform) series of boats, was the first choice. But this trend didn't last. The initial plan was to acquire at least 6 boats with 4 options (expected to grow to 15 over the years), in the 200 to 300 tonne range, with limited endurance but rapid strike capability. In addition to the rapid strike capability, TN has required this boat to have cruising capabilities in excess of 300 NM operational range at maximum attainable speed, minimum 60 knots, in Sea State 3 in BS.

The weapon and sensor configuration was listed and kept pretty much the same throughout the evolution of the design.​

• 3D search radar and Guided Missile - Point Defense system​
• Basic EW suite, R-ESM and limited EA capability​
• 40 or 76 mm main gun, the tendency was for 40 mm fast forty.​
• 4 or 8 Harpoon sized AShM​

The first designs that appeared will be skipped in this article, soon after the appearance TN shifted their focus towards more capable and high endurance platforms, this was the point where the public met with Anadolu Shipyard's Ada Class spin-off (Although it was not based on the Ada Class design, the features and lines were adopted from); an offer for the TTHB project that was widely acclaimed by the public. The designs submitted in response to the request for information issued by the SSM were now above 400 tonnes to meet certain requirements in terms of accommodation and endurance. ADIK's design had a displacement of 800 tonnes, WJ based propulsion, with 5 gas turbines; 4 x LM500 + 1 LM2500, the latter only for booster configuration, driving a single WJ, while other 4 GT's drive 2 WJ, 2 GT for each WJ. It has topped 60+ knots, with a displacement type of hull operating in semi-planning regime supporting its dynamic stability. It was not a FAC, however, can be assumed as a Corvette at this size and completely unaffordable.

The design features a low RCS platform with embedded (not pop-up) AShM launcher by directly adopting the Ada class mast with ESM module and 3D search radar. In addition, other designs from the same design office were made for other shipyards, briefly Desan, Sefine, Istanbul Shipyard. But the other eye-catching design(s) were the 2 different offers from RMK Marine. The propulsion system of these designs has not been made public, but it can be assumed that the design on the left used 3 waterjets (possibly GT-COGAG), 1 in booster configuration, and the one on the right used 2 waterjets, both powered by twin engines on each WJ (GT + GT COGAG).

One of these designs is focused on providing an integrated mast, a solution offered jointly by RMK and Aselsan with an APAR-based 3D search radar, pop-up AShM launchers (left or top image), and the other is focused on providing a novel design jointly by RMK Marine and a foreign partner (Design Solution), focused on a modern semi-catamaran hull form with integrated main gun and pop-up AShM launchers. Judging by their size, these designs were in the 450-600 tonne displacement range, and at the time were outside the Navy's specified range.

Another offer came from Dearsan, a solution based on the novel YTKB design, with increased capacity and high speed profile. The main propulsion was COGAG.

​

So far, the scene has been dominated by platforms with a high visual profile (with the exception of Dearsan), as opposed to what TN was seeking; the ability to operate in the Aegean Sea with a low visual, IR profile in addition to low RCS, as these FACs are more likely to be targeted by anti-tank missiles as well as coastal AShM defences. Only Dearsan's platform came close to a low-visual profile, but failed to provide sufficient technical details on IR and RCS signatures.

Then STM, a company affiliated to SSM, proposed a new design, somewhat knowing what TN was looking for, a new design with extremely low RCS as well as very low visual profile with small DWL (less than 1.5 metres) and overall depth, FAC-55. It should be noted that from the outset the TN had an abrupt speed requirement, initially over 60 knots, later updated to 55 knots as the size increased. This speed range is only achievable with all-gas turbine propulsion and water jets for this size of platform. STM's FAC-55 was powered by 3 Rolls-Royce gas turbines, each driving a waterjet, giving a total of 28 MW of installed power (note that the Ada class is equipped with 32 MW of installed power), one in booster configuration, the other two in steerable condition.

There were no comments on which design was chosen, but TN has signed a Concept Development Project, Phase I with STM in coordination with SSM (SSB). In this phase, the concept of FAC-55 has been studied in detail with certain modifications, towing tank tests have been carried out both for resistance in calm sea and sea state 3. In addition, STM carried out the preliminary signature studies and assessed the design for applicability. TN made requests during Phase I and the displacement of the vessel has increased continuously, reaching a point where the hull is no longer able to meet the 55 knots requirement at 3 GT, resulting in an update of 50 knots.
​

Project updates from 2021-2022​

Phase II of the concept development project was signed with STM in coordination with SSB. As the Conceptual Design Phase I was completed on a platform based on the FAC-55 design, the Turkish Navy had introduced new requirements for accommodation and installed equipment. This has rendered the FAC-55 design obsolete and STM has started studies on a new design for the Contract / Functional Design phase. In the first half of 2021, the new design has started to take shape, a platform more capable on the capabilities with the sacrifice of the visual profile and the maximum attainable speed. The latest iteration of FAC-55 was known to be over 550 tons with a maximum speed of 50 knots in sea state 3, while the maximum attainable speed was not disclosed but expected to be above 55 knots. (5 knots less than the first iteration). STM has in fact presented the design philosophy of the TTHB through the MPAC platform. First shown at IDEF'21, it then took its place on the STM website as of Q1 2022, repeatedly marketed by STM at all conferences and exhibitions and to special foreign customers - visitors. A new multi-purpose attack platform with almost the capabilities of a Corvette with optional growth space. After a personal engagement with STM's engineers, we have found out that the MPAC design is in fact not the TTHB itself, but it is TTHB with a "make-up" where the visual appearance has been altered to avoid possible licence issues with the TN. Little is known about the TTHB as of March 2022, but it is safe to say that MPAC is what the TTHB has become in terms of design philosophy. This information is based on insider knowledge.

The main differences are as follows.​

• COGAG propulsion (3 WJ -> 3 RR GT - 28 MW) was replaced with CODAG design (3 WJ -> 2 LM500 GT + 2 MTU DE - 18-20 MW)​
• Increase in the range, +30% range and higher cruise speed compared to the latest FAC-55 iteration​
• More growth space and larger mast, with additional spots​
• Conventional lateral AShM bay, compared to the forward-looking pop-up launchers utilized in FAC-55​
• Increase in the Draught, thus resulting in a more efficient hull form​
• Additional Deck with increased accommodation and space for the consoles and the equipment​
• Additional FCR, increasing situational awareness​
• Simpler and straight forward design, with affordable and easy to maintain propulsion system​
• Reduction in the total price, nearly as 40% in overall design​
• New design with the double endurance, better sea-keeping features, more provisions to stay longer at the sea​
• Larger AShM Bay that can optionally be equipped with 12 Medium Range AShM, or Combination of 6 MR + 4 LR AShM, or 4 LACM + 4 AShM​
• More electricity capacity, 35% increase in supply, thus indicating better EW, sensor suite​
• Better EW suite, both R-ESM and C-ESM are now available, also Compact ED/EA system being developed by Aselsan is now seen on MPAC, so available at TTHB​

The updated 3D search radar was not listed among the differences, as the same radar was also planned to be used on FAC-55, an X-band based radar (as of the current choice, may change later so take it with a pinch of salt).

In summary, TN has abandoned the FAC-55 design in favour of the more conventional and flexible MPAC design, which, despite being an unfinished and untested design, has managed to attract several customers because it can be easily configured in different roles for different missions, including OPV and patrol boat roles, FAC roles with different payloads, flexible propulsion options thanks to the larger engine room and the ability to overhaul on site if necessary, with a comfortable engine room. We have also delivered the FAC-55 design was not a chosen design at the beginning of Phase I as TN has a habit of being involved in the projects and managing how the design evolves, by April-2021 in this forum. This information was confirmed by Nihal Yalçın, head of the Electrical&Electronic Integration Team of the Naval Platforms Division at STM, in a speech given at STG'22 organised by ITU-SAVTEK. In conclusion, we say that TTHB will be MPAC with minor differences on the outer shell, which meets the certain requirements for TN, protecting the core and the main features in dimensions, displacement, sensor-weapon payload, propulsion system et al same. Both SSB & TN have also agreed to work on 2 different TTHB designs, with several different features, while keeping the concept the same, with alternative systems for redundancy - something SSB applies as a principle with increasing numbers of unexpected embargoes.

At the end of the TTHB project, both STM & SSB & TN will hold design rights to 4 available platforms, namely FAC-55 (3 iterations in concept design phase), MPAC (completed contract & functional design phase), TTHB1 and TTHB2 (completed contract & functional design phase).​

TN still interested in high-speed strike capability, what next?​

Again, TN is still persuaded that it has a fast strike capability, but an MPAC-like platform can only deliver 40 knots speed with an efficient SFOC, 45+ knots speed with a manageable SFOC, and may have a maximum of 52-53+ knots achievable speed with an unmanageable, inefficient SFOC, but in all of these it has a longer operational range than the earlier FAC-55 design. TN still requires a platform capable of 60-65+ knots with affordable, reliable propulsion and capable of carrying at least 4 or 8 harpoon-sized AShMs. As a final note, here are the two options under consideration for now.
​

1.Yonca-Onuk's recently unveiled MRTP 51 design

The MRTP 51 has a maximum speed of 55+ (60+ in extreme cases) knots using diesel engines alone, with a highly manoeuvrable composite hull design. This is an update of the MRTP 49 design previously submitted to the TTHB.

2. Unmanned surface vehicle design, unknown, capable of carrying AShM missiles.

The design requirements for this have not been made public, but TN has made certain requirements for the TTHB design, certain capabilities to work with USVs (alternate console position, increased power and accommodation for operators, etc.). However, a USV design can easily be used for rapid strike actions in coordination with a more capable central communications ship. A USV would also easily reach speeds in excess of 60 knots, have a longer endurance than a manned platform due to the lack of crew on board, and could optionally be manned with a minimal crew to operate weapons and navigation.​

 

[Madokafc]

there is unconfirmed news lately from our domestic sources, Indonesian Ministry of Defense has placed firm contract order for two NGFPB from a Turkish Shipyard, all with complete package including set of ECM, ESW, ATMACA AShM and 76 mm naval gun. As far as i know, Indonesian government has set funding budget for those Fast Attack Boat in 2021 fiscal year department.

 

[Anıl Mert Taşkın]

there is unconfirmed news lately from our domestic sources, Indonesian Ministry of Defense has placed firm contract order for two NGFPB from a Turkish Shipyard, all with complete package including set of ECM, ESW, ATMACA AShM and 76 mm naval gun. As far as i know, Indonesian government has set funding budget for those Fast Attack Boat in 2021 fiscal year department.

Are there any available information on the budget of the project, or the amount mentioned with the contract?

 

[Madokafc]

Are there any available information on the budget of the project, or the amount mentioned with the contract?

The budget for the procurement this time is has wide margin, that's up to around 300 million US Dollar. Last time @Oryx in his blog has Made some insight about the possible deal in November 2021

Market Expansion: Turkey Set To Export Patrol Vessels To Indonesia

www.oryxspioenkop.com

 

[defense uptodate]

Based on the analysis of Andra Key, a journalist at defenseuptodate.com, it seems that Turkey should be reckoned with as the newest maritime power in the world. Turkey will also produce great fighter jets, when it comes to drones, turkey also has a great bayraktar TB-2 which has been used by ukraine in combat. It's not impossible if Turkey will become one of the greatest military forces in the world

Turkish Type Fast Attack Craft Project (Türk Tipi Hücumbot - TTHB, in Turkish), also known as Next Generation Fast Patrol Boat Project (NG-FBP) of the Turkish Navy first emerges in documents published by Undersecretariat of Defense Industries (now, Defense Industries Presidency) in 2008. The aim of the project is mentioned as;

"Supplying future needs of the Turkish Navy, providing design of a new FAC for replacement of the aging classes"

Spoiler: Nomenclature

NM = Nautical Mile
BS = Beaufort Scale
FAC = Fast Attack Craft
FPB = Fast Patrol Boat
LOA = Length Overall
LWL = Length Waterline
DWL = Design Waterline
GT = Gas Turbine
DE = Diesel Engine
RG = Reduction Gear
EW = Electronic Warfare
EA = Electronic Attack
ED = Electronic Defense
IR = Infra-red
AShM = Anti-Ship Missile
SFOC = Specific Fuel-Oil Consumption

Background of the TTHB project, and early phase of the Request for Information addressed by SSM​

First tendencies by Turkish Navy was to acquire a Fast Attack Craft solution based on a composite structure that provides a light structure, naturally low RCS and IR & Acoustic signature and armor protection by Kevlar upgrade with ease. Yonca-Onuk, producer of the MRTP (Multi-role tactical platform) series of the boats, were the top-running choice. However, this tendency hasn't lasted. Initial plan was to acquire at least 6 boats with 4 options (expected to grow as many as 15 by the years), in range of 200 to 300 tons with limited endurance, yet rapid strike capability. In addition to the rapid-strike, TN has requested this boat to have cruising abilities above 300 NM of operational range at maximum attainable speed, minimum of 60 knots, at sea state 3 in BS.

Weapon & Sensor configuration was listed and kept pretty much same throughout the evolution of the design.​

• 3D search radar and Guided Missile based Point Defense system - referring to RAM​
• Basic EW suite, R-ESM and limited EA capability​
• 40 or 76 mm main gun, the tendency was for 40 mm fast forty.​
• 4 or 8 Harpoon sized AShM​

First appeared designs are skipped in this article, soon after the appearance TN has shifted their focus towards rather more capable and high-endurance platforms, this was the point where public has met with Anadolu Shipyard's Ada-Class spin-off (Although it was not based on the Ada-Class design, the features and lines were adopted from); an offer for TTHB project that was commonly acclaimed by the public. The designs submitted for the Request for Information adressed by the SSM, was now above 400 tons to satisfy certain requirements related to accommodation and endurance. ADIK's design had 800 tons displacement, WJ based propulsion, with 5 Gas Turbines; 4 x LM500 + 1 LM2500, the latter was merely for booster configuration driving a single WJ, while other 4 GTs drive 2 WJ, 2 GT for each WJ. It has topped 60+ Knots, with a displacement type of the hull operating in semi-planning regime supporting its dynamic stability. It was not a FAC, however, may be assumed as a Corvette at this size and completely unaffordable.

The design has features a low-RCS platform with embedded (not pop-up) AShM launches, by directly adopting the Ada-Classes mast with ESM module and 3D search radar. Along this, other designs stemming from the same design office were made for other shipyards, briefly Desan, Sefine, Istanbul Shipyard. But the other eye-catching design(s) was RMK Marine's 2 distinct offers. The propulsion system of these designs were not disclosed publicly, however one may assume the design on the left has used 3 water-jets (possibly GT-COGAG), 1 in booster configuration and the one on the right has utilized 2 water-jets, both powered by dual engines on each WJ (GT + GT COGAG)

One of these designs is focused on providing an integrated mast, a solution offered jointly by RMK and Aselsan with an APAR based 3D search radar, pop-up AShM launchers (left or upper image), and the latter is focused on providing a novel design jointly by RMK Marine and foreign partner (design solution) that focuses on a contemporary semi-catamaran hull form with embedded main gun and pop-up AShM launchers. Judging from the size these designs were in range of 450 to 600 tons of displacement and as of then, out of the range which was set by the Navy.
Another offer has arrived from Dearsan, a solution based on the novel YTKB design, with increased capacity and high speed profile. Main propulsion was COGAG.

Until now the scene was occupied by the platforms which were resulting in a high-visual profile (except Dearsan), against what TN had been seeking; being able to operate in Aegean sea with low-visual, IR profile in addition to the low-RCS since it was more prominent for these FACs to be engaged by anti-tank missiles as well as the coastal AShM defences. Only Dearsan's platform has approached towards a low-visual profile yet it has failed providing sufficient technical details on IR and RCS signatures.

Then, STM a company affiliated with SSM has proposed a new design, somewhat by knowing what TN had been seeking, a new design with extremely low-RCS as well as very low visual profile with small DWL (less than 1.5 meters) and Overall Depth, FAC-55. Let us note it here, TN had an abrupt speed requirement since the beginning, which was above 60 Knots in the beginning, later was updated as 55 knots with the increasing size. This range of speed is only achievable with all-gas turbine propulsion and water-jet for this scale of the platform. STM's FAC-55 was powered by 3 Rolls-Royce Gas Turbine each powering a water-jet totalling 28 M installed power (Note, Ada-Class is equipped with 32 MW of installed power), one in booster configuration other two in steerable condition.

There were no remarks on which design was chosen, yet TN has signed concept development project, Phase I with STM in coordination with SSM (SSB). At this stage concept of the FAC-55 was studied thoroughly via certain modifications, towing tank experiments both for resistance in calm seas and sea-state 3 were conducted. In addition to these, STM has carried out the preliminary studies for signatures and assessed the design in terms of applicability. TN has made requests while Phase I was ongoing and the ship's displacement has increased continuously and reached a point where the hull is rendered inable to satisfy 55 Knots requirement with 3 GTs, resulted in an update of 50 Knots.
​

Updates on the project as of 2021-2022​

Phase II of the concept development project signed with STM, in coordination with SSB. As concept design phase I was completed on a platform wrapped around the the FAC-55 design, Turkish Navy had introduced new requirements on the accommodation and installed equipment. This has rendered FAC-55 design obsolete, STM has started studies on a new design for the Contract / Functional Design stage. In first half of the 2021 the new design has started to take a shape, a platform rather more capable on the abilities with sacrifice of the visual profile and maximum attainable speed. FAC-55's latest iteration was known to be above 550 tons with maximum speed of the 50 knots in Sea State 3, while maximum attainable speed was not disclosed but expected to be above 55 knots. (5 Knots less, compared to the first iteration). STM, in fact, has showcased the philosophy of the design belonging to the TTHB by the MPAC platform. First shown in IDEF'21, then took its place in the STM's website as of the Q1 2022, repeatedly marketed by STM in all conferences and exhibitions and to special foreign customers - visitors. A new multi-purpose attack platform nearly with capabilities of a Corvette with optional growth space. Upon a personal engagement with STM's engineers, we have found out the MPAC design in fact is not the TTHB itself, but it is TTHB with a "make-up" where visual appearance has been altered to avoid possible license-issues with the TN. Little is known about the TTHB still, as of March 2022, but it is safe to claim, MPAC is what TTHB has become in terms of the design philosophy. This information is based on insider insights.
View attachment 40529

Major differences are given as follows.​

• COGAG propulsion (3 WJ -> 3 RR GT - 28 MW) was replaced with CODAG design (3 WJ -> 2 LM500 GT + 2 MTU DE - 18-20 MW)​
• Increase in the range, 30% more range and higher cruise speed compared to the latest FAC-55 iteration​
• More space to growth and larger mast, with additional spots​
• Conventional lateral AShM bay, compared to the forward-looking pop-up launchers utilized in FAC-55​
• Increase in the Draught, thus resulting in a more efficient hull form​
• Additional Deck with increased accommodation and space for the consoles and the equipment​
• Additional FCR, increasing situational awareness​
• Simpler and straight forward design, with affordable and easy to maintain propulsion system​
• Reduction in the total price, nearly as 40% in overall design​
• New design with the double endurance, better sea-keeping features, more provisions to stay longer at the sea​
• Larger AShM Bay that can optionally be equipped with 12 Medium Range AShM, or Combination of 6 MR + 4 LR AShM, or 4 LACM + 4 AShM​
• More electricity capacity, 35% increase in supply, thus indicating better EW, sensor suite​
• Better EW suite, both R-ESM and C-ESM is now available, also Compact ED/EA system being developed by Aselsan is now seen on the MPAC thus available on TTHB​

The updated 3D search radar was not listed among the differences, since the same radar was also planned to be utilized on FAC-55, an X-band based (as of the current choice, may change later thus take it with pinch of salt).

In sum, we can further say that, TN has abandoned the FAC-55 design in favor of a more conventional and flexible MPAC design, MPAC despite of being an uncompleted and untested design, has managed to attract several customers, since it can be easily configured in various roles for various duties including OPV and Patrol Boat roles, FAC roles with different payloads, flexible propulsion options thanks to the larger engine room and allowing on-site overhauling when it is necessary with a comfortable engine-room. We have also delivered the FAC-55 design was not a chosen design in the beginning of the Phase I since TN has habit of being involved in the projects and managing how the design evolves, by the April-2021 In this forum. This information was verified by Nihal Yalçın, Leader of the Electrics&Electronics integration team of the Naval platforms division in STM, in a speech given at STG'22 held by ITU-SAVTEK. Lastly we are saying that TTHB will be MPAC with minor differences on the outer shell which satisfies the certain requirements for TN, protecting the core and main features in dimensions, displacement, sensor-weapon payload, propulsion system et al same. Both SSB & TN have also agreed on working 2 different TTHB designs, with several different features by keeping the concept same, with alternative systems for redundancy - something that SSB applies as a principle with growing numbers of unexpected embargoes.

By the end of the TTHB project, both STM & SSB & TN will hold design rights of 4 available platform; namely FAC-55 (3 iterations in Concept Design Phase), MPAC (Completed Contract & Functional Design Phase), TTHB1 and TTHB2 (Completed Contract & Function Design Phase).​

TN is still interested in high-speed strike capability, What now?​

Yet, again TN still persuades of having rapid-strike capability but MPAC-like platform can only supply 40 Knots speed with an efficient SFOC, 45+ knots speed with manageable SFOC, and may have maximum of the 52-53+ knots attainable speed with unmanageable, inefficient SFOC, yet in all these it has longer operational range than the earlier FAC-55 design. TN still requires a platform that will achieve 60-65+ Knots speed with affordable, reliable propulsion regime and able to deliver at least 4 or 8 Harpoon sized AShM. As a last note here are the two options in review for now.
​

1.Yonca-Onuk's recently revealed MRTP 51 design

MRTP 51 has 55+ (60+ in extremes) knots maximum speed merely by utilizing diesel engines with a planning highly maneuverable hull form with composite material construction. This is rather an update of the MRTP 49 design which was earlier submitted for the TTHB.

2. Unmanned Surface Vehicle Design, unknown, capable of carrying AShM missiles.

The design requirements have not been publicly available for this, but TN has made certain requests on TTHB design, certain abilities on the cooperation with USVs (spare console position, higher electricity and accommodation supply for operators et al.) But an USV design can easily be deployed for rapid-strike actions in coordination with more capable central communication ship. Also an USV would easily attain speeds above 60 Knots, have longer endurance compared to a manned platform thanks to having no crew aboard, and also can be optionally manned with minimal crew to operate the weapons and the navigation.​

 

[usdefenseinformation]

If turkey successfully completes its carrier program, turkey will be recognized as a great country in the military field

 

[Zafer]

It will be fantastic if a set of TF6000 engine marine derivative is used in this project.

 

[Anmdt]

It will be fantastic if a set of TF6000 engine marine derivative is used in this project.

Wouldn't meet the timeline, also needs marinization, gearbox design, engine foundation & absorber designs etc. 100% wouldn't get military grade of these products for an indigineous engines.

TEI should first realize the MoU for assembly, partial local productoon and MRO or the LM2500 & 500s. Then they could pass to marinization of TF6000.

 

[Zafer]

Wouldn't meet the timeline, also needs marinization, gearbox design, engine foundation & absorber designs etc. 100% wouldn't get military grade of these products for an indigineous engines.

TEI should first realize the MoU for assembly, partial local productoon and MRO or the LM2500 & 500s. Then they could pass to marinization of TF6000.

With the quickly changing international politics of today you never know what gets the priority. A marine engine is a lesser technology than an aviation engine. The TF6000 will get its first ignition in around six months from today. I don't see why it should take more than an additional full year and a marine derivative emerges within 18 months from today.

 

[Anmdt]

With the quickly changing international politics of today you never know what gets the priority. A marine engine is a lesser technology than an aviation engine. The TF6000 will get its first ignition in around six months from today. I don't see why it should take more than an additional full year and a marine derivative emerges within 18 months from today.

If only that was the case, the gas turbines used in marine platforms are 'aeroderivatives', which requires aero jet engines to be mastered first and then fine tuning it for the marine environment for longer MTBF periods. Also gearbox is not present in jets, that is another field we are lacking at the moment.

We should have done TF-6000 years ago seeing that such restrictions can be imposef anytime. Or should have started marinization of TS-1400 core for use with USVs however both R&D offers in this field, made by reputable companies and institutes, were rejected / neglected.

 

[Zafer]

If only that was the case, the gas turbines used in marine platforms are 'aeroderivatives', which requires aero jet engines to be mastered first and then fine tuning it for the marine environment for longer MTBF periods. Also gearbox is not present in jets, that is another field we are lacking at the moment.

We should have done TF-6000 years ago seeing that such restrictions can be imposef anytime. Or should have started marinization of TS-1400 core for use with USVs however both R&D offers in this field, made by reputable companies and institutes, were rejected / neglected.

Surprise surprise, we were thinking they never started development of a military version for the TS1400 but turns out they did. Anyway, I guess lessons get learned when challenges emerge and hopefully once the first of the turbine classes get inducted following developments get quicker.

 

[Knowledgeseeker]

What is the duty of a fast attack craft? Is it supposed to operate in open sea, and if its supposed to be used in shallow water near the coast then would it not be cheaper, and safer to use it on a land truck atmaca variant?

 

[Anıl Mert Taşkın]

Update on TT-FAC project

2 alternative designs were delivered to Turkish Navy on June 2022. A comprehensive report is prepared for both of the designs, in favor of one, but adressing none. The report is then submitted to SSB for project management - organization duties. Also note that, the 2 alternative designs, resembling STM's MPAC but with more systems installed, had been prepared in cooperation with Turkish Navy, via Project Control Office. The final conclusion is not known, but Turkish Navy demands a Fast Attack Platform that is capable of operating at higher states than submitted design, as well as, attaining longer - higher endurance (range) and survivability with higher weapon payload (surface to air missiles).

 

[Anıl Mert Taşkın]

Update on TT-FAC project

2 alternative designs were delivered to Turkish Navy on June 2022. A comprehensive report is prepared for both of the designs, in favor of one, but adressing none. The report is then submitted to SSB for project management - organization duties. Also note that, the 2 alternative designs, resembling STM's MPAC but with more systems installed, had been prepared in cooperation with Turkish Navy, via Project Control Office. The final conclusion is not known, but Turkish Navy demands a Fast Attack Platform that is capable of operating at higher states than submitted design, as well as, attaining longer - higher endurance (range) and survivability with higher weapon payload (surface to air missiles).

Decision is made in Januray, in February it was expected to unveil the design to public yet the earthquake disaster had put a hold to the project. As expected, the favored design is selected and now STM will continue detail design phase in preparation of the construction. Steel cutting of the prototype (1st hull) is expected soon after contract phase, however design will finalize later in this year.

And, we will see the design soon. Can't verify yet but either later block or an export variant may be equipped with SAM (not the PDMS).

 

[Anıl Mert Taşkın]

What is the duty of a fast attack craft? Is it supposed to operate in open sea, and if its supposed to be used in shallow water near the coast then would it not be cheaper, and safer to use it on a land truck atmaca variant?

It is rapid respond platform with extra agility, and due to the its size, it fits perfect for ambushes. Sometimes you need to go and verify an event by eye or other SIGINT measures, close up before making a decision.

There were reports of FACs that can entrail large ships without ever being detected, especially when the sea state is 3+ the waves cause a clutter and noise on the radars that helps properly designed FACs to move around unnoticed.

However, nowadays they are more of an upgraded patrol boat with high speed and extra agility and soon other duties will be left to USVs.

 

[Sanchez]

In a tight space like the Aegean, fast moving manned ships with teeth will always be necessary. There will be things USVs cannot do for a very long time. What do you do when Greece basically apprehends an USV that it claims strayed into Greek territorial waters?

 

[Pantelis]

What do you do when Greece basically apprehends an USV that it claims strayed into Greek territorial waters?

In this case, it will be legally confiscated.

 

[Sanchez]

In this case, it will be legally confiscated.

Indeed. There are things an USV simply cannot do. Remember Iranians just collecting US saildrones sailing in international waters, tinkering with them a little and letting them go or not. Try doing that to a 40+ men strong FAC tho and you got a war in your hands.

 

[godel44]

If Greeks were to confiscate a USV or shoot down a drone, there would probably be war anyway, or at least some retaliation to give them casualties.

 

[Anmdt]

In a tight space like the Aegean, fast moving manned ships with teeth will always be necessary. There will be things USVs cannot do for a very long time. What do you do when Greece basically apprehends an USV that it claims strayed into Greek territorial waters?

Speed is unnecessary there, any vessel above 35+ knots would do the business in Aegean sea. Thus, i am also in favor of a larger ship as Turkish Navy does. Withstanding high sea states and weather conditions comes before the speed, above a sea state, small boats become inoperable or heavily relies on resistance of the crew.

I guess TTAB will be the last of its kind in Turkish Navy. And a separate project for a larger platforn, a multi-purpose corvette will launch soon.

TTAB has got some export potential too and if TN gets it in the inventory the export is easing. It is great that same platform can be shipped as 45+ knots capable high end FAC or 30+ knots capable low-end patrol boat.