TR Politics

[Zafer]

Seems like you never, heard such thing as Cumhur ittifakı.....

Which government official is a MHP member? None.

 

[Saithan]

You describe Ak Parti and you know it. LOL

It's really funny isn't it.

That's why I am harsher on AKP because they are not there yet, but they're turning the ship now. Transparency, accountability etc etc. and you know that to.

All the other parties manage to fuck up on those simple things I mentioned.

I believe firmly that you need to change governments to dig up the dirt from each other. That is the only way to keep cleaning up trash politicians in Turkish politics.

 

[Zafer]

Arap kamuoyundan en yüksek beğeniyi Türk dış politikası aldı

Arab Center adlı düşünce kuruluşunun araştırmasına göre 13 Arap ülkesinde en büyük dış tehdit olarak görülen ülkeler sırasıyla İsrail, ABD ve İran oldu. - Anadolu Ajansı

www.aa.com.tr

Arab people like Turkish foreign policy, rating Turkish foreign policy with the top rating of 58% as favorable.

 

[Zafer]

It's really funny isn't it.

That's why I am harsher on AKP because they are not there yet, but they're turning the ship now. Transparency, accountability etc etc. and you know that to.

All the other parties manage to fuck up on those simple things I mentioned.

I believe firmly that you need to change governments to dig up the dirt from each other. That is the only way to keep cleaning up trash politicians in Turkish politics.

Ak Parti government give more than you ask for; simply put a proud place among the nations of the world. Whether you deserve it or not.

There is no magic way of weeding out rotten politicians, as you have to be lenient on people to maintain peace. Rotten people will get eliminated in time and not overnight.

 

[Saithan]

Ak Parti government give more than you ask for; simply put a proud place among the nations of the world. Whether you deserve it or not.

There is no magic way of weeding out rotten politicians, as you have to be lenient on people to maintain peace. Rotten people will get eliminated in time and not overnight.

Transparency and accountability is important in that aspect, without that and free press you can't weed out the rotten politicians

E.g. a Danish minister (right now) ordered the killing of all Minks in Denmark, no legal basis for such order now he's getting bombarded and all dirts are coming out, about how he was warned and such things by the bureaucracy, but he chose to press on and abuse powers he did not have.

The Minks will get killed because of Corona-mutation, but his blatant abuse of power to incur loss on mink farm owners are likely to cost him his job.

He is being held accountable in the eye of the public through news, and that is what we're lacking in Turkey.

Notice how RTE and AKP are talking about strengthened Parliamentary system. But even then it will not work unless you abolish Daily Sabah/AA and allow free press to return.

Abolishing DS/AA is necessary because they're in the hands of pro government ppl. Either that or divide it and sell it.

 

[Zafer]

Notice how RTE and AKP are talking about strengthened Parliamentary system. But even then it will not work unless you abolish Daily Sabah/AA and allow free press to return

Why do you want to abolish state news agency and one of the major media outlets? This is ridiculous.

And not even talking about many media outlets being owned by foreign owners. Turns out that Sözcü has been sold to a Swiss company, in whole. The first thing to do should be abolishing foreign owners from owning Turkish media outlets. As long as they are owned by foreigners there is no chance that they not be used against the interests of Turkey. Try that in the US if you want and you won't last a couple months. Media is not like other industries they can spill mischief among citizens, same for social media: they don't even want to live by Turkish national laws.

Turkish government is being too lenient in its treatment towards freedoms. Some laws that have been put in place long time ago need to be changed like media ownership. Govt is moving too slowly putting interests of Turkey at stake.

Can you imagine one of Denmark's major daily news posts being owned by Turkish citizens. Ridiculous.

 

[Saithan]

Why do you want to abolish state news agency and one of the major media outlets? This is ridiculous.

And not even talking about many media outlets being owned by foreign owners. Turns out that Sözcü has been sold to a Swiss company, in whole. The first thing to do should be abolishing foreign owners from owning Turkish media outlets. As long as they are owned by foreigners there is no chance that they not be used against the interests of Turkey. Try that in the US if you want and you won't last a couple months. Media is not like other industries they can spill mischief among citizens, same for social media: they don't even want to live by Turkish national laws.

Turkish government is being too lenient in its treatment towards freedoms. Some laws that have been put in place long time ago need to be changed like media ownership. Govt is moving too slowly putting interests of Turkey at stake.

Can you imagine one of Denmark's major daily news posts being owned by Turkish citizens. Ridiculous.

If you have a state owned newspaper that doesn't do proper critical journalism, and criticizing the government is a big part of it, then we don't need it.

 

[Sinan]

Which government official is a MHP member? None.

Bro, we all know what i'm talking about. There is no need to play word games.

 

[Zafer]

Bro, we all know what i'm talking about. There is no need to play word games.

Ak Parti and MHP are two different parties and blaming Ak Parti for what MHP does is not reasonable. Ak Parti is government and you could blame MHP if they allowed Ak Parti for doing things but MHP is not government and what they do is their own business. Also legal action is being taken by authorities in any case.

 

[Sinan]

Ak Parti and MHP are two different parties and blaming Ak Parti for what MHP does is not reasonable. Ak Parti is government and you could blame MHP if they allowed Ak Parti for doing things but MHP is not government and what they do is their own business. Also legal action is being taken by authorities in any case.

I don't really talk much on this issue, since everything is clear. Let me remind you on some stuff.

- For years, when asked about general amnesty Erdogan always said, "I'm against amnesty, maybe we can forgive the crimes against state but we can't forgive the crimes against citizens."
- Bahçeli pressed much for an amnesty. It was widely known he wanted Çakıcı out.
- Government granted amnesty, after Bahçeli's pressures. Killers, drug dealers forgiven but journalists are not.
- Çakıçı threatens a political leader.
- Bahçeli supports Çakıcı with a statement.
- Erdogan and Government stays silent on the subject.
- It is said that legal action being taken but we both know nothing can be done.

My personal view is, Erdogan literally hates mafia and anything related. When he first came back to power 2002 he cracked mafias and put many of them behind bars. Mafia system existed before Erdogan but it was Erdogan who broke the back of mafia and made them turn into kittens.

However today's case is different. We know if one day, Bahçeli stops supporting Erdogan, AKP loses majority in the parliament and road to early elections will be opened. So, Erdogan binded his hand with Cumhur ittifakı. He can't touch Çakıcı, or he will be removed from the power.

On the other hand this gives great opportunity to opposition. If you remember "Susurluk Case" and how people were chanting "Mafya, Devlet, Siyaset. Bu ne biçim rezalet" Same thing happening today.

Mafya - Çakıcı
Devlet - Erdogan
Siyaset - Bahçeli

I have no doubt Erdogan would like to be in this quagmire but he has no option.

Other than that, again in my opinion;
- Political Party leaders represents, will of millions of people. Threatening them by a person or be it military (like at the past against Refah, AKP), Anayasa Mahkemesi (they said a person's wife who wears hijab can't be a president). Is actually against the will of millions of people. I don't approve such stuff.

- These cases, Sevda Noyan (who threatent to kill people), courts over-ruling Anayasa Mahkemesi, Mafia threats against Politicians, eroding the trust in justice system in general. These have negative impact to our economy, foreign investment stops coming to Turkey.

 

[Zafer]

Mafia threats against Politicians, eroding the trust in justice system in general. These have negative impact to our economy, foreign investment stops coming to Turkey.

Erdoğan will never tolerate gangster behavior. There is a working judiciary and a law enforcement system. Criminals get caught, many decades old court cases are being solved. People have faith that the state will not let criminals get away with their crimes including journalist criminals. Journalism is not a cloak of immunity.

I believe there should be various kinds of punishments to crimes. Jailing should only be considered if no other method is effective. Technology allows such punishments as geofencing where confining the criminal in his house or neighborhood is possible. Also allowing movement on certain days or hours and restricting otherwise is also possible just like the curfew imposed on age groups or occupational groups due to Covid-19 pandemic. Technology can keep track of individuals and possibly prevent them from using unassigned (banned) rights to them. Therefore an amnesty from imprisonment is acceptable when you can contain criminal behavior otherwise.

 

[Sinan]

Erdoğan will never tolerate gangster behavior. There is a working judiciary and a law enforcement system. Criminals get caught, many decades old court cases are being solved. People have faith that the state will not let criminals get away with their crimes including journalist criminals. Journalism is not a cloak of immunity.

I believe there should be various kinds of punishments to crimes. Jailing should only be considered if no other method is effective. Technology allows such punishments as geofencing where confining the criminal in his house or neighborhood is possible. Also allowing movement on certain days or hours and restricting otherwise is also possible just like the curfew imposed on age groups or occupational groups due to Covid-19 pandemic. Technology can keep track of individuals and possibly prevent them from using unassigned (banned) rights to them. Therefore an amnesty from imprisonment is acceptable when you can contain criminal behavior otherwise.

We think alike on this issue with a little different perspective.

If a journalist commits a crime like stabing a person of course they will be punished. However if a jornalist is being jailed because of journalism. Than it's wrong.

I can give you many examples but i will just give one. Müesser Yıldız. She kept in jail for 155 days before seeing a judge and judge released her.

Apart from journalists, there are ordinary people who critisizes government on social media. Mustafa Selanikli and Ankara Kuşu is just 2 examples. They got jailed for 6 months before being released seeing the judge for the first time.

And ordinary citizens, an ordinary citizen jailed because he had been critic of government in the a street interview in a youtube channel called İlave TV.

These are all wrong in my opinion.


And let's come to the most critical question. What about Selahattin Demirtaş?

 

[Zafer]

We think alike on this issue with a little different perspective.

If a journalist commits a crime like stabing a person of course they will be punished. However if a jornalist is being jailed because of journalism. Than it's wrong.

I can give you many examples but i will just give one. Müesser Yıldız. She kept in jail for 155 days before seeing a judge and judge released her.

Apart from journalists, there are ordinary people who critisizes government on social media. Mustafa Selanikli and Ankara Kuşu is just 2 examples. They got jailed for 6 months before being released seeing the judge for the first time.

And ordinary citizens, an ordinary citizen jailed because he had been critic of government in the a street interview in a youtube channel called İlave TV.

These are all wrong in my opinion.


And let's come to the most critical question. What about Selahattin Demirtaş?

Instigator of mass killings on multiple occasions. I am unaware of what crimes he is held accountable for but my first sentence describes his actions.

 

[Sinan]

Instigator of mass killings on multiple occasions. I am unaware of what crimes he is held accountable for but my first sentence describes his actions.

So, should he be jailed during persecution or not?

 

[Zafer]

So, should he be jailed during persecution or not?

You probably mean prosecution. If he can be expected to repeat his crime in the meantime he should be deprived of rights of speaking to the public and the only way to stop him is to put him in where he can't do so which is jail.

 

[Sinan]

You probably mean prosecution. If he can be expected to repeat his crime in the meantime he should be deprived of rights of speaking to the public and the only way to stop him is to put him in where he can't do so which is jail.

This is where we think very different.

In no country in the world (except dictatorships) you can keep a person in jail for 4 years without any conviction.

 

[Glass🚬]

This guy is so full of shit.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1330123949917827080

How low can u fall?

 

[adenl]

Transparency and accountability is important in that aspect, without that and free press you can't weed out the rotten politicians

E.g. a Danish minister (right now) ordered the killing of all Minks in Denmark, no legal basis for such order now he's getting bombarded and all dirts are coming out, about how he was warned and such things by the bureaucracy, but he chose to press on and abuse powers he did not have.

The Minks will get killed because of Corona-mutation, but his blatant abuse of power to incur loss on mink farm owners are likely to cost him his job.

He is being held accountable in the eye of the public through news, and that is what we're lacking in Turkey.

Notice how RTE and AKP are talking about strengthened Parliamentary system. But even then it will not work unless you abolish Daily Sabah/AA and allow free press to return.

Abolishing DS/AA is necessary because they're in the hands of pro government ppl. Either that or divide it and sell it.

A geopolitically relevant and rising power such as Turkey with a vastly different culture, history and the way society is hierarchically ordered, in a turbulent region of the world cannot be compared to a smal irrelevant country in a very stable region which is geopolitically, culturally and ideologically aligned and protected by the hyperpower and the most powerful countries in the world.

One can afford to hold its power-structure accountable to a certain level, the other cannot.

 

[Saithan]

A geopolitically relevant and rising power such as Turkey with a vastly different culture, history and the way society is hierarchically ordered, in a turbulent region of the world cannot be compared to a smal irrelevant country in a very stable region which is geopolitically, culturally and ideologically aligned and protected by the hyperpower and the most powerful countries in the world.

One can afford to hold its power-structure accountable to a certain level, the other cannot.

So this kind of U turns are your thing then

Turkey to build its future with Europe

Turkey to build its future with Europe, Erdoğan says BY DAILY SABAH NOV 21, 2020 2:34 PM President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan said Saturday that Turkey sees itself in Europe and seeks to build its future in the continent. "We see ourselves in Europe, not anywhere else, we look to build our future...

defencehub.live

Solid economic management would serve our interest. But RTE fucked it up. We’læ just wait and see what happens.

I wonder if he is going to sellout on national values too.

 

[adenl]

So this kind of U turns are your thing then

These aren't comparable. Improving ties=/=doing away with geopolitical aspirations.