Live Conflict Iran-Afghanistan tension

[Huelague]

Persians are missy and wrong people. This is said even by Persians.

 

[Agha Sher]

You support Iran overthrowing and destroying the Taliban, don't you? Wouldn't you like to see a secular, democratic, rule of law Afghanistan that respects human rights? For that, the Taliban must first be overthrown or destroyed. Of course, other religious extremist groups and organizations also need to be destroyed. There has to be an opposition force in Afghanistan to do such a thing.

It's actually quite funny when you think about it, a dream, a utopia that will never happen in a country that has become a hellhole...

No, I do not support the overthrowing of the Taliban. Let me tell you why.

As many members (@Tabmachine etc.) have pointed out, Afghanistan has experimented with all possible sorts of ideologies for the past 100 years. All ended in disaster and with the leader fleeing the country or being executed. Afghanistan has tried with being more secular than Ataturk, democracy, socialism, communism etc. They all failed.

After 4 decades of war, peace, stability and rule of law is much more needed qualities than idealistic western concepts like democracies, westernized human right, secularism etc.

We need to build a country after 4 decades of destruction, thus, the fundamentals needs to be in place. The Taliban governments qualities is already doing wonders. There is almost no corruption, there is rule of law and there is security. These factors have resulted in exports being 2x higher this year than any period during the pro-western governments. Government revenue is 3x the previous pro-western government because of no corruption (This is while taxes has been reduced in the country!). Massive infrastructure projects are being carried out with domestic funds (the previous aid-dependent government couldn't even dream of these project as all money was lost to building palaces for warlords). These projects will materially transform Afghanistan. Chinese investments are coming in at a greater pace than ever before. Territory lost to neighbors because of a weak Kabul government has been reclaimed. Afghanistan is taking its fair share of waters and finishing construction of dams that has been stalled for decades. All in all, Afghanistan is moving forward at an incredible pace. So to hell with western ideologies, we have a government that truly cares about Afghanistan's interest and isn't afraid of any bigger neighbor.

Let's face it, Taliban wouldn't be in government if not the vast majority (at least 70%) of the population supported them. Afghans are a very conservative people (tribalism is playing a smaller role) and what the people of cities want is not what the majority of Afghans want.

As Afghanistan develops over the next few decades, Taliban will also soften up on the issues of Women in education and labor market. The younger generation of Taliban leaders are vastly pro-women in education and work force.

Things will come naturally. If somebody tries to force it they will fail.

 

[Ryder]

No, I do not support the overthrowing of the Taliban. Let me tell you why.

As many members (@Tabmachine etc.) have pointed out, Afghanistan has experimented with all possible sorts of ideologies for the past 100 years. All ended in disaster and with the leader fleeing the country or being executed. Afghanistan has tried with being more secular than Ataturk, democracy, socialism, communism etc. They all failed.

After 4 decades of war, peace, stability and rule of law is much more needed qualities than idealistic western concepts like democracies, westernized human right, secularism etc.

We need to build a country after 4 decades of destruction, thus, the fundamentals needs to be in place. The Taliban governments qualities is already doing wonders. There is almost no corruption, there is rule of law and there is security. These factors have resulted in exports being 2x higher this year than any period during the pro-western governments. Government revenue is 3x the previous pro-western government because of no corruption (This is while taxes has been reduced in the country!). Massive infrastructure projects are being carried out with domestic funds (the previous aid-dependent government couldn't even dream of these project as all money was lost to building palaces for warlords). These projects will materially transform Afghanistan. Chinese investments are coming in at a greater pace than ever before. Territory lost to neighbors because of a weak Kabul government has been reclaimed. Afghanistan is taking its fair share of waters and finishing construction of dams that has been stalled for decades. All in all, Afghanistan is moving forward at an incredible pace. So to hell with western ideologies, we have a government that truly cares about Afghanistan's interest and isn't afraid of any bigger neighbor.

Let's face it, Taliban wouldn't be in government if not the vast majority (at least 70%) of the population supported them. Afghans are a very conservative people (tribalism is playing a smaller role) and what the people of cities want is not what the majority of Afghans want.

As Afghanistan develops over the next few decades, Taliban will also soften up on the issues of Women in education and labor market. The younger generation of Taliban leaders are vastly pro-women in education and work force.

Things will come naturally. If somebody tries to force it they will fail.

Bro im not a supporter of Monarchy.

But would you support Afghanistan becoming a monarchy again?

Which time periods of Afghanistan would you put that was at least stable?

Talking about Afghan history in general

 

[Agha Sher]

Bro im not a supporter of Monarchy.

But would you support Afghanistan becoming a monarchy again?

Which time periods of Afghanistan would you put that was at least stable?

Talking about Afghan history in general

I am not a supporter of monarchy either. You are right, Afghanistan experienced the most stability during monarchs. However, the drawback of a monarchy is that the succession is fixed and risk of coups.

I much prefer a 1 party system, as we de facto have with the Taliban. Risk of coup and political instability is minimal while the leader of the nation has to be elected from a consensus in the party. This is the type of government we need for at least the two next decades.

 

[Ryder]

I am not a supporter of monarchy either. You are right, Afghanistan experienced the most stability during monarchs. However, the drawback of a monarchy is that the succession is fixed and risk of coups.

I much prefer a 1 party system, as we de facto have with the Taliban. Risk of coup and political instability is minimal while the leader of the nation has to be elected from a consensus in the party. This is the type of government we need for at least the two next decades.

Interesting to hear how about the Ethnic Groups of Afghanistan.

You have Pashtuns, Uzbeks, Hazaras, Turkmens and other Ethnic groups.

Any plan set forth to at least unite the groups? Afghanistan is pretty diverse.

I was pretty surprised to meet not just Pashtuns but even Uzbeks and Hazaras.

I always wondered why some Afghans looked Asian only to tell they were Hazara.

In Turkiye, Turks form the majority ethnic group of the country while the Kurds are second and the Arabs are Third.

You do have other Turkic minorities and you have Circassians, Chechens, Bosniaks and Albanians.

But Afghanistan is just a bigger clusterfck of Ethnic Groups.

 

[Gary]

You support Iran overthrowing and destroying the Taliban, don't you? Wouldn't you like to see a secular, democratic, rule of law Afghanistan that respects human rights? For that, the Taliban must first be overthrown or destroyed. Of course, other religious extremist groups and organizations also need to be destroyed. There has to be an opposition force in Afghanistan to do such a thing.

Being secular and democractic has nothing to do with rule of law and human rights.

You could be secular and democratioc and treats your citizens like animals and commit abuse
you could also be secular and democratic and treats your citizens like...well citizens and stick to the law
You could be religious, theocratic and there also two possibilities (either dictatorial or compassionate)

Sorry to burst bubble, but really there's no correlation between the type of government and law with how citizens are treated. Many of this "secular" countries have proven themselves to be the bigger animal when it comes to killing. Look at the Soviet Union, Syria, SE Asia and Latin America during the CW.

Afghanistan has had 20 years under secular govt yet their situation is horribly more or less the same, its US money that floats the country, not the hardwork of its "democratically elected" reps. Meanwhile "theocractic and dictatorial" Saudi Arabia and Qatar has the best life quality in the ME.

 

[I_Love_F16]

How many illegal Afgan migrants live in Iran?
What would happen with them Incase of a big scale war?

"Welcome to Türkiye "??

Erdogan would be happy to host them.

 

[YeşilVatan]

Erdogan would be happy to host them.

When two tribes fight in friggin Africa, spear finds its way into our ass. I hate this. I hate everything.

 

[Ryder]

When two tribes fight in friggin Africa, spear finds its way into our ass. I hate this. I hate everything.

Erdogan thinks his Mr Beast lmaooo

 

[Baryshx]

Being secular and democractic has nothing to do with rule of law and human rights.

You could be secular and democratioc and treats your citizens like animals and commit abuse
you could also be secular and democratic and treats your citizens like...well citizens and stick to the law
You could be religious, theocratic and there also two possibilities (either dictatorial or compassionate)

Sorry to burst bubble, but really there's no correlation between the type of government and law with how citizens are treated. Many of this "secular" countries have proven themselves to be the bigger animal when it comes to killing. Look at the Soviet Union, Syria, SE Asia and Latin America during the CW.

Afghanistan has had 20 years under secular govt yet their situation is horribly more or less the same, its US money that floats the country, not the hardwork of its "democratically elected" reps. Meanwhile "theocractic and dictatorial" Saudi Arabia and Qatar has the best life quality in the ME.

Qatar and S.Arabia are the way they are because of their underground wealth. Otherwise they would be countries no different from Afghanistan.

Also, democracy, secularism, human rights, etc. do not fall from the sky. For this, it is necessary to give importance to education and to be an educated society. If there is no education, it is done by force despite the people but for the people.

 

[Gary]

Qatar and S.Arabia are the way they are because of their underground wealth. Otherwise they would be countries no different from Afghanistan.

Oh really ? Syria does have underground wealth, Algeria does have underground wealth, Indonesia (used to) have underground wealth

Where are these country I listed in terms of human life quality ?

Also, democracy, secularism, human rights, etc. do not fall from the sky. For this, it is necessary to give importance to education and to be an educated society.

In the Middle East and in teh Arab World, there exist two types of country. The secular one with Baathism (Syria, Iraq, Egypt, Libya) and the Conservatives like S.Arabia and Qatar.

The secular batthist Arabia comes to adopt democracy after many of their leaders (usually army officer) comes to be "educated' in France or in French administered organization, where they come to terms with things like "universal human rights", "rule of law", "separation of the state and church" during the colonial period.

Those education they receive? later on enforced to their native countrymen once they comes in power (usually by coup) and the next thing we know their country is a disaster we know today as Iraq, Syria and many underdeveloped And low quality of life Arab-African country.

If there is no education, it is done by force despite the people but for the people.

Yes all political thoughts (religious and and non-religious) are usually enforced by force...there's really no difference between them. If you look at what horrible acts the French revolutionary did after the French revolution to enforce their ideology, you wouldn't have guessed that these are the same people glorified as a symboil of the "rule of law" or whatever it means.

Which makes them no different than the religious conservatives in Afghanistan or ME in enforcing their ideology.

 

[Ryder]

Oh really ? Syria does have underground wealth, Algeria does have underground wealth, Indonesia (used to) have underground wealth

Where are these country I listed in terms of human life quality ?


In the Middle East and in teh Arab World, there exist two types of country. The secular one with Baathism (Syria, Iraq, Egypt, Libya) and the Conservatives like S.Arabia and Qatar.

The secular batthist Arabia comes to adopt democracy after many of their leaders (usually army officer) comes to be "educated' in France or in French administered organization, where they come to terms with things like "universal human rights", "rule of law", "separation of the state and church" during the colonial period.

Those education they receive? later on enforced to their native countrymen once they comes in power (usually by coup) and the next thing we know their country is a disaster we know today as Iraq, Syria and many underdeveloped And low quality of life Arab-African country.




Yes all political thoughts (religious and and non-religious) are usually enforced by force...there's really no difference between them. If you look at what horrible acts the French revolutionary did after the French revolution to enforce their ideology, you wouldn't have guessed that these are the same people glorified as a symboil of the "rule of law" or whatever it means.

Which makes them no different than the religious conservatives in Afghanistan or ME in enforcing their ideology.

Humans in general are all power hungry.

 

[Ryder]

Gulf Arabs have wealth driving in Ferraris and buying up land in Western countries and Turkiye while Iraqis and Syrians have all but left and are living in poverty in the countries they migrated to like the EU and Turkiye.

If people seen the Sultan of Brunei's car collection. It will.make you punch the wall with jealousy.

People are like its all vanity so the fck what? I dont see any Qataris, Saudis or Bruneians living in poverty thats for sure.

 

[Gary]

If people seen the Sultan of Brunei's car collection. It will.make you punch the wall with jealousy.

How can I forget the Sultaate of Brunei, the most conservative country in SE Asia and one of the wealthiest. Lmao

There are many variable in life that leads to wealth and poverty, advancements or backwardness. Personally to me the most hillarious one is the one who blindly blames it because of ideology and choice of law which happens to be not in his liking.

China becomes the world 2nd strongest country by being authoritarian and shit all over human rights altogether. If I were to follow Western standard of what is acceptable than its impossible for countries like China to exist.

Afghanistan (because this thread is about Afghanistan) either ruled by democratic men in suits or authocratic men in Turbans are no much different at all. They still need American money to float. Independent of what ideology and government type they choose.

 

[Baryshx]

Oh really ? Syria does have underground wealth, Algeria does have underground wealth, Indonesia (used to) have underground wealth

Where are these country I listed in terms of human life quality ?


In the Middle East and in teh Arab World, there exist two types of country. The secular one with Baathism (Syria, Iraq, Egypt, Libya) and the Conservatives like S.Arabia and Qatar.

The secular batthist Arabia comes to adopt democracy after many of their leaders (usually army officer) comes to be "educated' in France or in French administered organization, where they come to terms with things like "universal human rights", "rule of law", "separation of the state and church" during the colonial period.

Those education they receive? later on enforced to their native countrymen once they comes in power (usually by coup) and the next thing we know their country is a disaster we know today as Iraq, Syria and many underdeveloped And low quality of life Arab-African country.




Yes all political thoughts (religious and and non-religious) are usually enforced by force...there's really no difference between them. If you look at what horrible acts the French revolutionary did after the French revolution to enforce their ideology, you wouldn't have guessed that these are the same people glorified as a symboil of the "rule of law" or whatever it means.

Which makes them no different than the religious conservatives in Afghanistan or ME in enforcing their ideology.

Exactly brother, there is no difference between France and Afghanistan. Whoever founded the Taliban was influenced by Maximilien Robespierre.

 

[Gary]

Exactly brother, there is no difference between France and Afghanistan. Whoever founded the Taliban was influenced by Maximilien Robespierre.

That's the factual truth...at least when it comes to the enforcement of thought.

 

[Timur]

Interesting to hear how about the Ethnic Groups of Afghanistan.

You have Pashtuns, Uzbeks, Hazaras, Turkmens and other Ethnic groups.

Any plan set forth to at least unite the groups? Afghanistan is pretty diverse.

I was pretty surprised to meet not just Pashtuns but even Uzbeks and Hazaras.

I always wondered why some Afghans looked Asian only to tell they were Hazara.

In Turkiye, Turks form the majority ethnic group of the country while the Kurds are second and the Arabs are Third.

You do have other Turkic minorities and you have Circassians, Chechens, Bosniaks and Albanians.

But Afghanistan is just a bigger clusterfck of Ethnic Groups.

The most pure turks in the world are the hazara having most turkic genes..

Unfortunally they don't speak any Turkish dialect

Also interesting is that almost every Afghan has to some degree turkic in their bloods.. This can be even more than someone from turkey due to mix in history with hazara and Uzbeks...

They are ethnically Divers country but also a mixed country if they can be aware of this plus Islam it could be something uniting.. But they must get rid of warlords and tribal problems..

Even in turkey kurds have also some sort of tribal shit going on.. So this is a thing for many many decades

 

[Ecderha]

Taliban army are keep sending military vehicles on iran conflict border zone.
They keep building up!
It is escalating

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1663932228907466752

 

[Angry Turk !!!]

Taliban army are keep sending military vehicles on iran conflict border zone.
They keep building up!
It is escalating

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1663932228907466752

Good, let them fight.

 

[GoatsMilk]

Taliban army are keep sending military vehicles on iran conflict border zone.
They keep building up!
It is escalating

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1663932228907466752

Does the taliban have any air defence? Because if they don't you would think these guys would be easy pickings for Iranian drones?