Indonesia Indonesian Air Force, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Udara (TNI-AU)

[Gundala]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1672810169422708736

It shows that they are ready to defen their interest in Indo Pacific region as this area become warmer. Now they need a "friend" in this area and this is when Rafael diplomacy in particular and Mirage as general become important as we currently cant rely on Rusky for the balancer in the region.

 

[Umigami]

So we can't get away from CAATSA even with using third-party?

 

[chiphocks]

So we can't get away from CAATSA even with using third-party?

they kind a good to make it sounds like SU35 failed because of Ukraine Russia war instead of CAATSA that only the "activist" know it happened way before the war

 

[Umigami]

they kind a good to make it sounds like SU35 failed because of Ukraine Russia war instead of CAATSA that only the "activist" know it happened way before the war

CAATSA exists because of 2014 invasion

 

[chiphocks]

CAATSA exists because of 2014 invasion

yes, Crimea aka Ukraine. We know that those Russia-Ukraine, US-EU-Russia is just part of their big game.
cause we never saw the same scene happen in most of the middle-east event where the west is the one who hold the big gun.

anyway, we already have those F16 Block 52-- and already start purchasing Rafale plus those plan about F15, why they still wanted Mirage 2000???
what is the point?? just add more numbers to those Rafale or F15

 

[Umigami]

cause we never saw the same scene happen in most of the middle-east event where the west is the one who hold the big gun.

What were you hoping?
For Russian cs to sanction Western?
For Western to sanction themselves?

 

[Lordimperator]

yes, Crimea aka Ukraine. We know that those Russia-Ukraine, US-EU-Russia is just part of their big game.
cause we never saw the same scene happen in most of the middle-east event where the west is the one who hold the big gun.

anyway, we already have those F16 Block 52-- and already start purchasing Rafale plus those plan about F15, why they still wanted Mirage 2000???
what is the point?? just add more numbers to those Rafale or F15

time limit and kickbacks

 

[chiphocks]

What were you hoping?
For Russian cs to sanction Western?
For Western to sanction themselves?

i hope most of them know that it's nothing more but part of a game and stop thinking and make it sound like we only able to chose 1 side and there are only 2 options left (which is mostly Russia vs US/EU).

years ago we wont even discuss about that Rafale, Typhoon, J10B all mighty and that upgraded dusty bin secondhanded F16 block 52 as part of a solution of our SU series.
Siper and Aster as an replacement option for simbah beside of that Patriot and S400 that you guys loved.
C-802, C705, Yakhont, BrahMos and ATMACA as a replacement for an old Ashm's like Exocet

that is why i kind a confused that the media and even some of the expert keep thinking and/or saying things that make it sound like it's all about West vs non West and we have to choose between those 2.

They have their own war, they have their own game, they have their own side. They have their own tragedy and story.
We just have to "read" it, enjoy it and maybe, if you can, smile while enjoying the story their story while keep ourselves out of it, simple.

time limit and kickbacks

you mean they did it mostly just for a stop gap?
why don't the buy another second handed F16s? no issue come from TNI's last move about it right?
no stock left on their side?

 

[Madokafc]

My take for why Su 35 deal ended abruptly because of the dilly dallying of previous MoD, the window time for the selection of F5 replacement already started since 2012, MoD under SBY already spent his budget to get Su30 and logistic support along with missiles and also getting the deal for F-16 Id Grant from US, this not to mention his effort to get C130H ex RAAF, CN295, six H225M, T/A50, Super Tucano and other stuff for the Air Force.

Thus come the AFK MoD, in which he doesnt pursue more budget for the armed Forces and also take the budget to finance his Program bela negara. The only significant Air Force program under his administration is NASAAM deal and also C130 J deal which also there is pending in budget issue before they can get proceed in late 2019 or early 2020

Buat apa pesawat tempur emang mau perang sama siapa???

While forgeting when he is in active duty Indonesia has several active combat front, from Timor Leste, Aceh and also Papua

 

[Lordimperator]

you mean they did it mostly just for a stop gap?
why don't the buy another second handed F16s? no issue come from TNI's last move about it right?
no stock left on their side?

1. I doubt AURI will use mirage-5 only for the stop gap only even thou the maintenance contract listed only for 3 years . More how MoD(this period) arming the AURI ASAP because the previous ones aint do nothing.
2. Did you get kickback for the 2ndhand F16s? Both MoD and President have their own political interest.
3. Stock, i dunno about that.

i hope most of them know that it's nothing more but part of a game and stop thinking and make it sound like we only able to chose 1 side and there are only 2 options left (which is mostly Russia vs US/EU).

years ago we wont even discuss about that Rafale, Typhoon, J10B all mighty and that upgraded dusty bin secondhanded F16 block 52 as part of a solution of our SU series.
Siper and Aster as an replacement option for simbah beside of that Patriot and S400 that you guys loved.
C-802, C705, Yakhont, BrahMos and ATMACA as a replacement for an old Ashm's like Exocet

that is why i kind a confused that the media and even some of the expert keep thinking and/or saying things that make it sound like it's all about West vs non West and we have to choose between those 2.

They have their own war, they have their own game, they have their own side. They have their own tragedy and story.
We just have to "read" it, enjoy it and maybe, if you can, smile while enjoying the story their story while keep ourselves out of it, simple.

We lack of Big stick, unlike India. We dont have much option, so its an obvious choice when the threat come from eastern block (CCP), we teaming up with the western... as simple as that.

 

[Madokafc]

The only fighter producing countries in the market is

UK, Germany, Italia with EF2000
Italia with M346
US with F-16, F-15, F18 and F35
France with Rafale, Mirage 2000 (already out of market for new production)
Russia Mig29, Su30, Su35, Su34 , Yak 130
China J10B/C, JL8, JL10
Pakistan JF17 (which heavily reliant to China)
India HAL Tejas
South Korea with KAI T/A50

There is also other country like Taiwan, Japan capable to build fighter but for politics reason still out of market, there is also Czech and Serbian build light fighter/training but so be it

From the list, actually there is not much choices for Indonesia to choose from, as for years Indonesian Air Force actually built-in capability following US-Western European compliance NATO standard from the training regime, support base infrastructure, ground control Radar and other stuff, comm system'and even the civillian Aviation standard is following FAA compliance

Flanker coming to Indonesia is actually neccesity based on Forced condition, not an ideal choice from day one. If only Russian/Soviet can be a more dependable supplier and partner and also not stingy, we would not be Forced to ditch our Mig fleets and also those numerous Bomber, which would created a long lasting infrastructure ground support and training system' for our Air Force and made Indonesia a prospective arms market for Russian/ Soviet arms industry.

 

[Madokafc]

One thing for sure, the western countries especially US, albeit embargoed Indonesia in late 90's they don't even bother to close the backdoor channel and also facilitated credits export for Indonesian to support their Air Force equipment including fighter Jets like F-16 and also urging Israel to sold some F-16 to Indonesia (during Gus Dur era, there is actually talk about used F-16 deals for Indonesia with Israel before he is being impeached), such attitude is quite different compared to hard headed attitude of Soviet which cant be bothered at all, as they are insisted Indonesia to paid in hard cash money for the support and spare part equipment needed to maintain their product here. Indonesia actually not asking them to donate Such sparepart but willing to paid in credits and also other product if they want, but Soviet refusing. Such attitude in the time of financial economy woes of Indonesia giving Soeharto a decisive action to got rid Soviet Made arms bar several items.

They have gall to called themselves as a friend, but where is Russian when Indonesia need the friend?

 

[chiphocks]

1. I doubt AURI will use mirage-5 only for the stop gap only even thou the maintenance contract listed only for 3 years . More how MoD(this period) arming the AURI ASAP because the previous ones aint do nothing.
2. Did you get kickback for the 2ndhand F16s? Both MoD and President have their own political interest.
3. Stock, i dunno about that.

1. which is why it sound kind a weird. Buying an expensive old things for a short period mainly caused by a political stuff???
how much short are our inventory that make us have to buy it?
if it have to be fast, why don't we just buy something that we already have? or at least something like secondhand Rafale (below F4 version) so it will not so variative

2. i wish i get it, i cant even imagine of how that it's possible to happen to someone like me.
i say F16 is because i think that they still have some stock. but if you want me to make a choice, i wont buy any.
i believe our stock already enough for now (based on wiki 33 F16 and 16 SU series plus F16 and Mirage 2000 basically performing the same role)

We lack of Big stick, unlike India. We dont have much option, so its an obvious choice when the threat come from eastern block (CCP), we teaming up with the western... as simple as that.

Lack of big stick which make it more reasonable for us to not joining their games.
take a look at those samples that i posted, you'll understand of why i put those options

 

[Lordimperator]

1. which is why it sound kind a weird. Buying an expensive old things for a short period mainly caused by a political stuff???
how much short are our inventory that make us have to buy it?
if it have to be fast, why don't we just buy something that we already have? or at least something like secondhand Rafale (below F4 version) so it will not so variative

2. i wish i get it, i cant even imagine of how that it's possible to happen to someone like me.
i say F16 is because i think that they still have some stock. but if you want me to make a choice, i wont buy any.
i believe our stock already enough for now (based on wiki 33 F16 and 16 SU series plus F16 and Mirage 2000 basically performing the same role)


Lack of big stick which make it more reasonable for us to not joining their games.
take a look at those samples that i posted, you'll understand of why i put those options

1. No more 2nd hand rafale. purchased by Greeks
2. didnt buy anything then by the time come, we are begging to others when shits hit the fan on the Pacific theater (Natuna especially).
3. how do we avoiding their games while our territories literally being claimed by the other side, unless you want to concede it for "peace".

 

[Madokafc]

1. which is why it sound kind a weird. Buying an expensive old things for a short period mainly caused by a political stuff???
how much short are our inventory that make us have to buy it?
if it have to be fast, why don't we just buy something that we already have? or at least something like secondhand Rafale (below F4 version) so it will not so variative

2. i wish i get it, i cant even imagine of how that it's possible to happen to someone like me.
i say F16 is because i think that they still have some stock. but if you want me to make a choice, i wont buy any.
i believe our stock already enough for now (based on wiki 33 F16 and 16 SU series plus F16 and Mirage 2000 basically performing the same role)


Lack of big stick which make it more reasonable for us to not joining their games.
take a look at those samples that i posted, you'll understand of why i put those options

Hindia Belanda in the past too doesnt want to involved in the big power game and trying to become neutral, but bang!!! Japan invaded China in 1936, then Boom, US embargoed Japan for steel and oil, then Pearl Harbor happened in 1941 , then the whole ASPAC become a great battlefield! And what, Hindia Belanda is come unprepared with very minuscule military

Like it or not, Indonesia need to do something before get caught, there is already example before you and you trying to ignore the boiling stage of conflict? Then don't crying river if Indonesian Air Force being decimated in the first hour of conflict

 

[chiphocks]

buy nothing then by the time come, we are begging to others when shits hit the fan on the Pacific theater (Natuna especially)

Hindia Belanda in the past too doesnt want to involved in the big power game and trying to become neutral, but bang!!! Japan invaded China in 1936, then Boom, US embargoed Japan for steel and oil, then Pearl Harbor happened in 1941 , then the whole ASPAC become a great battlefield! And what, Hindia Belanda is come unprepared with very minuscule military

Like it or not, Indonesia need to do something before get caught, there is already example before you and you trying to ignore the boiling stage of conflict? Then don't crying river if Indonesian Air Force being decimated in the first hour of conflict

owh come on, i said nothing but not exactly nothing bro
i'm not against those Rafale F4, im not against TNI plan for a secondhand plane as a stop gap

but why it had to be a that choice?
are you saying that there are 100% no other options or even possibilities beside that Mirage 2000?

 

[Lordimperator]

Hindia Belanda in the past too doesnt want to involved in the big power game and trying to become neutral, but bang!!! Japan invaded China in 1936, then Boom, US embargoed Japan for steel and oil, then Pearl Harbor happened in 1941 , then the whole ASPAC become a great battlefield! And what, Hindia Belanda is come unprepared with very minuscule military

Like it or not, Indonesia need to do something before get caught, there is already example before you and you trying to ignore the boiling stage of conflict? Then don't crying river if Indonesian Air Force being decimated in the first hour of conflict

JAS MERAH

 

[Lordimperator]

owh come on, i said nothing but not exactly nothing bro
i'm not against those Rafale F4, im not against TNI plan for a secondhand plane as a stop gap

but why it had to be a that choice?
are you saying that there are 100% no other options or even possibilities beside that Mirage 2000?

2ndhand F16s. or do you want eastern block, J10 from the PLA stocks?

 

[chiphocks]

2ndhand F16s. or do you want easter block, J10 from the PLA stocks?

at least we can discuss it first, many of us and all the silent reader didn't know that things yet...
the CPFH, logistical things and bla bla bla that none of you even trying to discuss

there are a lot things that can make this discussion even more interesting.

 

[Madokafc]

owh come on, i said nothing but not exactly nothing bro
i'm not against those Rafale F4, im not against TNI plan for a secondhand plane as a stop gap

but why it had to be a that choice?
are you saying that there are 100% no other options or even possibilities beside that Mirage 2000?

Well if it is second hand F-16 from US and western countries they would put priority for Ukraine and other Eastern Europe country who needed such stuff like Romania and Hungary and sure US would keep them for their own use as China is much more aggresive than before regarding Taiwan issue

South Korea is already trying to cope with China and North Korean, they don't have much choices as they even keep their F5 II at stand by

Egypt, Turkey and Greeks not to mention as they need to cope with Volatile condition of the region which is deteriorating day by day, so it is impossible to release F-16


Thus ironically right now only Gulf countries can offer some second hand assets lately albeit they are one of the most conflicting region till now and not much F-16 operator among the Gulf countries

Forget China and Russian planes as even Russian buying back the logistic support from India several weeks ago