TR UAV/UCAV Programs | Anka - series | Kızılelma | TB - series

[Anmdt]

I don't believe it either, despite all the honor and respect that our country has made out of nothing. Nevertheless, we should remain realistic. The Anka 3 drone will be inferior to the American and Chinese stealth drones in all respects.
Of the top 5 in the world, we are currently no. 4 or 5, even the British would be further ahead than us if they were to develop a stealth drone tomorrow.
We are slightly above Israel and Russia, who started too late with this type of weapon.

US stealth drone
View attachment 64724

Chinese stealth drone
View attachment 64725

The extremely clean workmanship alone on both drones and the fact that the engine sits very low in the fairing is in a completely different league.

Our Anka 3 drone looks more like it was designed by an intern.

It will be inferior to a Chinese drone operated by Chinese, it will be superior to a Chinese drone operated by anyone else (in other words, an export version or unfamiliar operators and maintenance). The same goes for US drones.

There is a good saying in Turkish, too obscure for the forum, but you got it.

Designed by an intern? What is your profession in the field to judge this? At least a degree? This looks good to me as development, early block design and excellent manufacturing and production for a prototype. (As a person with a PhD in mechanics).

This is not constructive criticism, provide details that we may discuss in depth. Your whole point is about the engine which we have covered long ago, when renders first got leaked. This is definitely related to the engine, not the designer itself.

 

[Anmdt]

So is the Chinese and even the US stealth drone Grumman X47B is not beyond the test phase, they are simply much more technologically advanced than we are.
This is nothing to be ashamed of - both countries are much further ahead than we are in stealth technology.

And where does your statement 'intern design' fall within? I would have doubts about China being much more technologically as of now. I have seen how they work in my own field and i would hardly claim it. They simply employ brute force as of now but there is no doubts they will surpass even the US eventually. This is expectable.

 

[Zafer]

However, Baykar is not happy with TAI and is trying to pull some strings to slow them down. This is not fair. I had admired Baykar's effectiveness, but what has happened in recent years is an inorganic growth that has made them less effective than TAI, which is almost as big as Congoloromate.

Same as Aselsan, export has never been a problem but you find some wannabe start ups talking shit about them, man if you need anything out of the blue it is Aselsan that gets it done even a nut and bolt or a radar or sensors or they had to make actuators, controllers, stepper motors until the 2010s because those private companies and start ups found it hard. As soon as Aselsan had done it and built up the labour force that could do it, they hired these people to do it.

Aselsan and TAI (with TEI) are the last two companies that we can criticise, these are the places that do the things that nobody dares to do.

I don't want to be critical, but Baykar didn't even dare to localise the Rotax engine, which we bought in large quantities (hundreds or almost half a thousand), or offer it to a local company. Why not? To protect their relationship with the supplier, as they did with Wescam.

Politics is politics, business is business, and Baykar is the company that is breaking through this barrier and playing dirty.

Localize Rotax engine, why would anyone do that. Baykar exports more than 80% of its products and you want them to localize Rotax. While also there is not guarantee that TB2 continues its success in an ever changing sector. Where does that inorganic growth come from, pulling strings to slow TAI down and all.

Bullshit after bullshit.

 

[B_A]

TUSAS can do anything even a 5th gen air superiority fighter. Speed of development is stunning, sales not so much?!

Even KAAN sales to Pakistan are possibly in danger of being lost to China.
Not to mention failure to secure an engine for ATAK by bypassing US and Italy thus losing $1.5 billion deal.
All prototype almost no sales except a few ANKAs etc. Something is very wrong in their marketing/export department.

source:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1744962526566060263

KAAN ,T129,HURJET......

These products are far from finish.....We have to admit our promotion was so good...

Will you buy a car which cant be delivered with in 3years?

That s not like TB2 which can easily delivered.

 

[B_A]

You live in a dreamworld or something?
The KAAN hasnt flown yet and if it would be ready,TAF first,which would mean before 2035/6/7 we cant think of selling.
Guessing you're talking about the ATAK 2,that project is on hold,not that important currently.
All other projects you mentioned are doing fine.

Actually we always promoted our system too early,like the Japanese.(their super engine XF9 and Space jet and C2)

A lot of system were in developing(in good speed),but we talk like they can be delivered within 1 year.

We signed contact to sell ALTAY and T-155 7-8 years ago but we cant deliver thenm,

 

[Anmdt]

Localize Rotax engine, why would anyone do that. Baykar exports more than 80% of its products and you want them to localize Rotax. While also there is not guarantee that TB2 would continues its success in an ever changing sector. Where does that inorganic growth come from, pulling strings to slow TAI down and all.

Bullshit after bullshit.

Why shouldn't we localize an engine that has a future both in civilian and military sector, an engine also has been intended to be used by several other newbie drone developers, or requested from TAI or Baykar within the products?

Critizing Baykar or Selcuk = bullshit because you can not logically counter my arguments.

 

[Zafer]

Why shouldn't we localize an engine that has a future both in civilian and military sector, an engine also has been intended to be used by several other newbie drone developers, or requested from TAI or Baykar within the products?

Critizing Baykar or Selcuk = bullshit because you can not logically counter my arguments.

Why should Baykar do anything about it while they already have access to the engine and their customers will demand the reliable Rotax instead of a lame effort engine copy. Even Rotax itself moved towards more powerful engines as the industry demands more power. And you have got the national TEI PD170 engine which can be ordered from TEI by other makers. Even the PD170 engine didn't have a localized ECU after many years in development, (the last time I asked a TEI engineer a couple years ago, so it is not a piece of cake nationalizing as you wish).

Seems like election fever has already gotten to you as you wanted to get in a blame game.

 

[Nutuk]

However, Baykar is not happy with TAI and is trying to pull some strings to slow them down. This is not fair. I had admired Baykar's effectiveness, but what has happened in recent years is an inorganic growth that has made them less effective than TAI, which is almost as big as Congoloromate.

Same as Aselsan, export has never been a problem but you find some wannabe start ups talking shit about them, man if you need anything out of the blue it is Aselsan that gets it done even a nut and bolt or a radar or sensors or they had to make actuators, controllers, stepper motors until the 2010s because those private companies and start ups found it hard. As soon as Aselsan had done it and built up the labour force that could do it, they hired these people to do it.

Aselsan and TAI (with TEI) are the last two companies that we can criticise, these are the places that do the things that nobody dares to do.

I don't want to be critical, but Baykar didn't even dare to localise the Rotax engine, which we bought in large quantities (hundreds or almost half a thousand), or offer it to a local company. Why not? To protect their relationship with the supplier, as they did with Wescam.

Politics is politics, business is business, and Baykar is the company that is breaking through this barrier and playing dirty.

Unless there is real proof I do not like it when some things are insinuated (like Baykar trying to slow down TAI, where is the proof?)

On the choice of Rotax engine I think Baykar has taken the most logical and technically best solution. Rotax has damn good engines that provide the power and altitude requirements. Let's not forget that TB2 was designed in 2012 (with TB1) and first flight of TB2 in 2014 I believe (not entirely sure).

Also drones are designed around an engine and Baykar simply chose the best available one, no one can put any technical criticism there. After that Baykar concentrated on production and sales and that's something a good managed company is ought to do. At the end Baykar is a commercial company, not a state run one, nothing dirty there.

It is us (you, me, we all Turks) who need to make a difference between state run and commercial companies, not the other way around.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

@Huelague But that was due to the arrogance and stupidity of the Americans, who thought they were infallible.
Nevertheless, their drones are first class.
Only an idiot would deny that.

If they were junk, Iran wouldn't have done everything they could to replicate them. But they haven't had much success, their drones look like alpha versions of the current Golden Master drone.
Obviously they are not capable of 3D printing higher quality metal and components.
Not to mention that they can't copy the propulsion system. They don't have the equipment to do it and the Americans are probably using 3D printing for the individual components of the propulsion.

It also seems that they have no radar absorbing material or alloys, apparently they can copy them.
Probably the chip hardware is not comparable either, in terms of computer chips, INS & avionics.
They have no factories for semiconductor production.
But they may have sent chips to China, because they have the factories to make DIE Shots and Analyze the Software, Chip structure and their architecture.

A Die Shot is a picture of a computer chip without its housing. There are two ways to capture such a chip "naked" on a photo; by either taking the photo before a chip is packaged or by removing its package.
For example:

 

[Nutuk]

Even removing the package alone is not enough since chips are multilayered, they have to find special ways to remove layer by layer and than go from chip architecture level to schematic level to understand the working.

It is not impossible but it is IMO even more difficult than design a chip from scratch

 

[MhhJA]

15th flight of TB3.
They've cut the "touch and go" from the video.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1747697819882869237

 

[Bogeyman]

Azerbaijan's successes with Bayraktar TB-2 in Karabakh are given as a lesson to the Chinese army.

 

[Huelague]

View attachment 64880

Azerbaijan's successes with Bayraktar TB-2 in Karabakh are given as a lesson to the Chinese army.

AZ teaching China. Why?

 

[Bogeyman]

AZ teaching China. Why?

Combat experience. They want to adapt successful examples to themselves. We showed them how to do this job.

Meanwhile, Azerbaijan does not provide them with education.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

Somehow I have the feeling that the government, the Turkish armed forces and especially the defense industry are giving away too much information in their Interviews, X-channels, Press Conferece, Presentations. The current projects and what technology and technical knowledge they have.
I know it's fun to discuss this and also to be proud of what your country is capable of.
But there are good reasons why the USA, China and Russia don't totally brag about their milestones in technological development and trumpet everything.
Our country should slowly take the path of discretion. Foreign countries don't really need a secret service any more, we fire off our findings as highly visible fireworks in X or YouTube about what we can do, what projects are in the pipeline and reveal almost every milestone we have achieved.
If we were a little more discreet, countries like Greece & Co wouldn't be massively arming themselves out of fear, and it would be easier to catch them cold when they are lulled into a false sense of security.

In this case, we are also tripping ourselves up and wondering why countries, especially in Europe, see us as a threat to their security and want to see us fail.

We should follow a similar path to the USA and do absolutely nothing for a long time, and then a press conference and presentation about the successor to the Northrop B-2 comes out of nowhere.
This would make it much more difficult for countries to react and we would always have a head start of 5-10 years and at the same time the disclosure of the weapon system would serve as a deterrent. If we trumpet every single shit we have achieved technically. Then the enemy also has time to react.
Even the last moron knows that the embargo on military technology and weapons systems for Turkey is not a democratic deficit, but because the country has become a threat, both militarily and economically, to the interests of the countries imposing sanctions on us.

 

[Sanchez]

AZ teaching China. Why?

They are using publicly shared Azerbaijani MoD materiel. We watched these previously on twitter.

 

[Sanchez]

Thought it was interesting. Israeli Heron TP with two EO pods under the wings and a third sensor on the nose. What are those protrusions under the pods? Aksungur should work like poor man's RQ-4, not a like glorified TB2 with bigger MAM load.

 

[Strong AI]

third sensor on the nose

 

[uçuyorum]

Thought it was interesting. Israeli Heron TP with two EO pods under the wings and a third sensor on the nose. What are those protrusions under the pods? Aksungur should work like poor man's RQ-4, not a like glorified TB2 with bigger MAM load.

Aksungur is being tested with PT170 rn which will increase its total electrical energy significantly though I don't know which engine previous versions used. You can expect more useful electronic payloads after that.

 

[Sanchez]

Aksungur is being tested with PT170 rn which will increase it's total electrical energy significantly though I don't know whoch engine previous bersions used. You can expect more usrful electronic payloads after that.

Doubt it will catch Heron TP's single TP6's output but it will be a nice increase for certain.