TR TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[Zafer]

It never ends good when the top management hurries engineers to finish a project. Hastily finished engineering projects usually don't produce a quality product which makes the customers unhappy.

However, I don't think TAI as an organisation has that kind of culture, unlike Boeing.

IT is always best to deliver products in a timely manner, there are wars going on around the world and more is coming. It is always best to deliver in peace time; at war time you don't have the time to waste for the sake of industry practices.

 

[Rodeo]

you cannot deliver it as the customer won't buy if it doesn't meet the criteria. a deliverable product and a prototype are two very different things. at the end of the day, the only thing that matters is the delivery. just because you can rollout a prototype and fly it earlier doesn't necessarily mean you will end up delivering it faster.

Temel Kotil should stop giving dates about FF. I don't think he purposefully misleads the public. He believes what he says. He also misinformed the secretary of defence about the first flight. He is overconfident and a tad politically motivated. He cannot be trusted with dates. That is actually the reason why I'm skeptical about KAAN's flight with national engine in 2028. The date is given by Kotil and I don't remember any TEI official indicating that year for the first flight(correct me if I'm wrong).

 

[TR_123456]

Hi I have been following this thread for the last 2 years and I admired mostly because of the comments backed by solid data. So I never thought to be a member because of my lack of engineering knowledge. I just read it to understand technical details. Now I see comments like “we weren't great before this goverment”. So I thought maybe I can chip in too. Here it is.We are not great now either. We are working on it but we are way back right now. I hope we can achieve asap. I read this forum for a long time and I didnt understand the specific of the kaan engine deadlines . When TAF can send operational kaan jets with local engine for a mission is not clear. Maybe by 2035 . It is not bad but also it is not a achievement for s 20＋ years goverment. And thanks everyone around this thread. This is the only place I find tech info to understand general news about defence industry.

Dont be a stranger,if you have questions be it technical or other,feel free to ask.
We are all here to learn.

 

[Dosirak]

IT is always best to deliver products in a timely manner, there are wars going on around the world and more is coming. It is always best to deliver in peace time; at war time you don't have the time to waste for the sake of industry practices.

I understand your intention is good, but rushing & pressuring the engineers to hastily finish a project doesn't always end with the best results. It doesn't matter whether it is war time or peace time. Engineering projects need a reasonable time window to produce a quality product and TAI's engineers will have a reasonable schedule to design, manufacture and deliever one of the best fighter aircrafts for Turkey no matter what you think of the time that they are taking to achieve that goal.

 

[ChadThunder74]

Dumb question but why didn't turkey go for Distributed Aperture System (360 degree thermal camera system) instead of 4 AESA radars as sensors around the plane, doesn't having more radars compromise stealthiness of the plane due to emissions?

 

[Zafer]

I understand your intention is good, but rushing & pressuring the engineers to hastily finish a project doesn't always end with the best results. It doesn't matter whether it is war time or peace time. Engineering projects need a reasonable time window to produce a quality product and TAI's engineers will have a reasonable schedule to design, manufacture and deliever one of the best fighter aircrafts for Turkey no matter what you think of the time that they are taking to achieve that goal.

TAI always have the means to expand its engineering capacity. They even utilize foreign engineering teams. Harder and smarter they have to pick up pace.

 

[Afif]

Dumb question but why didn't turkey go for Distributed Aperture System (360 degree thermal camera system) instead of 4 AESA radars as sensors around the plane, doesn't having more radars compromise stealthiness of the plane due to emissions?

Well, they do actually have DAS type sensor in development, and those extra AESA sensor will not always emmit though. Side looking arrays help keeping the target track while turning away.

I read somewhere, originally side arrays were also planned for F-22. But then later it was dropped due to cost.

 

[Oublious]

Dumb question but why didn't turkey go for Distributed Aperture System (360 degree thermal camera system) instead of 4 AESA radars as sensors around the plane, doesn't having more radars compromise stealthiness of the plane due to emissions?

In a dogfight first thing you do when they lock you to enemy and he locks you, crank the fighter left or right so the missile not reach you faster but the same time you keep mainting the lock on your enemey. With this side radar Kaan will fly away from the enemey but the same time locking the enemy.

Former Staff colonel saying that Kaan will fly in several days, we are waiting . This is not official....

 

[uçuyorum]

AFAIK wing radars are supposed to be L band on KAAN like SU57 supposedly has, to detect stealth fighters which have most significant return at that band.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Dear members,
Please note that this is TFX KAAN fighter Jet thread.
Refrain from sharing off topic and politically motivated posts.
Posts as such will attract immediate warnings!
Please stay on topic.

 

[Umigami]

Roomy

View attachment 55267

Isn't that seat less recline than F16 / F35 / Rafale?

 

[Radonsider]

Dumb question but why didn't turkey go for Distributed Aperture System (360 degree thermal camera system) instead of 4 AESA radars as sensors around the plane, doesn't having more radars compromise stealthiness of the plane due to emissions?

It does have a DAS like system. IRIS-300

 

[DBdev]

It does have a DAS like system. IRIS-300

IRIS is just a very simplistic missile warning system and only against common missiles since it only sees solar blind UV and filters out all other light spectrums to reduce clutter and requirement for a smarter image analyzer.

DAS and dozen other systems below use IR instead of UV because jet engines do not create UV so you can't see enemy fighters with our IRIS.
Also it is possible to make missiles that do not radiate in UV (like meteor and other ramjet AA missiles) and regular missiles radiate UV only when their engines are still active, so I think we made a huge mistake by choosing glass filtered UV, instead of AI filtered IR like NG-DAS and dozen others. But I am no expert. Correct me if I am wrong.

Missile approach warning system - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[DBdev]

IRIS is just a very simplistic missile warning system and only against common missiles since it only sees solar blind UV and filters out all other light spectrums to reduce clutter and requirement for a smarter image analyzer.

DAS and dozen other systems below use IR instead of UV because jet engines do not create UV so you can't see enemy fighters with our IRIS.
Also it is possible to make missiles that do not radiate in UV (like meteor and other ramjet AA missiles) and regular missiles radiate UV only when their engines are still active, so I think we made a huge mistake by choosing glass filtered UV, instead of AI filtered IR like NG-DAS and dozen others. But I am no expert. Correct me if I am wrong.

Missile approach warning system - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I couldn't find official specifications of IRIS-300 and so I used IRIS-100 as reference. If IRIS-300 is not UV only like IRIS-100 and it is a sophisticated IR imaging system, ignore this.

 

[Radonsider]

IRIS-300 is the "FSS". MWS and 360 degree thermal SA system.

 

[MADDOG]

@MADDOG
Can we expect an advanced nozzle design in the future and maybe a multi TVC?

I don't think TAI will play around with the nozzles of the F-110's. For the national engine, sure. I'm not confident about the TVC thing. Probably won't happen.

 

[Strong AI]

ChatGPT:

Thrust Vectoring Control (TVC) in the context of jets also carries some disadvantages:

1. Complexity and Weight: Similar to rockets, TVC systems in jets increase the complexity and weight of the aircraft due to the additional parts and mechanisms.

2. Maintenance and Reliability: These systems require regular maintenance and checks to ensure they are functioning correctly, as a failure could lead to a major flight issue.

3. Fuel Usage: To generate the changes in thrust direction, additional fuel is burned. This could potentially increase the overall fuel consumption of the jet.

4. Cost: Incorporating TVC systems increases the manufacturing and operational costs, making the aircraft more expensive.

5. Heat Erosion: Diversions of hot exhaust gas can negatively affect the aircraft structure around the jet nozzle due to heat erosion.

6. Need for Expert Piloting: While TVC provides increased maneuverability, it can also demand greater skill from the pilot to effectively use this capability. Improper handling can lead to loss of control.

 

[uçuyorum]

ChatGPT:

Thrust Vectoring Control (TVC) in the context of jets also carries some disadvantages:

1. Complexity and Weight: Similar to rockets, TVC systems in jets increase the complexity and weight of the aircraft due to the additional parts and mechanisms.

2. Maintenance and Reliability: These systems require regular maintenance and checks to ensure they are functioning correctly, as a failure could lead to a major flight issue.

3. Fuel Usage: To generate the changes in thrust direction, additional fuel is burned. This could potentially increase the overall fuel consumption of the jet.

4. Cost: Incorporating TVC systems increases the manufacturing and operational costs, making the aircraft more expensive.

5. Heat Erosion: Diversions of hot exhaust gas can negatively affect the aircraft structure around the jet nozzle due to heat erosion.

6. Need for Expert Piloting: While TVC provides increased maneuverability, it can also demand greater skill from the pilot to effectively use this capability. Improper handling can lead to loss of control.

I think F22 engine is the correct way to go for future aircraft. Reduces the RCS and the heat signature significantly, is simpler and easier to implement than 3D and simpler to control too. F119 is just good design. Plus it would blend well with slightly adjusted tail design, early designs of TFX seemed built around that even.

 

[Huelague]

I think F22 engine is the correct way to go for future aircraft. Reduces the RCS and the heat signature significantly, is simpler and easier to implement than 3D and simpler to control too. F119 is just good design. Plus it would blend well with slightly adjusted tail design, early designs of TFX seemed built around that even.

Makes the jet extrem agil and manoeuvrable for better engagement against AAM and AAG.

 

[Spitfire9]

I think F22 engine is the correct way to go for future aircraft. Reduces the RCS and the heat signature significantly, is simpler and easier to implement than 3D and simpler to control too. F119 is just good design. Plus it would blend well with slightly adjusted tail design, early designs of TFX seemed built around that even.

I don't know if exporting the F119 was prohibited along with F-22.

Whatever, F-22 MTOW is over 37 tonnes, so it is too powerful for use in Kaan, isn't?