TR TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[Sanchez]

source : Wiki

I don't think preliminary MTOW figures for updated( after 2020] Kaan were made public by TAI. Correct me if i'm wrong. When that 27000 figure was first touted, then TFX was to have 2 20k lbs engines. Specs for the design changed after 2019.

 

[Afif]

F-22 wing area 78 sq m MTOW 37 tonnes
Kaan wing area 60 sq m MTOW 27 tonnes
source : Wiki

Can Kaan increase MTOW by 10 tonnes without needing a new wing?

Wiki is plain wrong on this. 27 tonnes is the gross weight.

Besides, it was explicitly memitoned by Temel kotil KAAN will carry 10 tonnes of payloads internally. (Fuel + weapons) F-22 carries around 9.5 tonnes internally.

Even F-35A has an MTOW of 29 tonnes.

Anybody with two Brian cells can figure that, massive twin engine KAAN is not lighter than an F-35.

 

[boredaf]

F-22 wing area 78 sq m MTOW 37 tonnes
Kaan wing area 60 sq m MTOW 27 tonnes
source : Wiki

Can Kaan increase MTOW by 10 tonnes without needing a new wing?

Nah, our engineers don't know what they are doing that's why we are going for 2x35k engines on it. That's the answer you're looking for?

 

[Zafer]

Tamil kotil

You totally lost the chance of being on good terms with Mr. Temel Kotil.

 

[Spitfire9]

Sorry, just quoted inaccurate source. I retract the query about MTOW and wing area.

 

[MADDOG]

13.600 sq m warehouse that will serve the MMU project

"On November 2, 2023, our executives and colleagues gathered for the ceremony. The B1031 Warehouse Building, whose construction process will be overseen by the Facilities Engineering, Planning and Investments Directorate under the Procurement and Industrialization Vice Presidency, will have a total indoor area of 3,970 sq m and a gross area of 13,600 sq m, including field concrete, landscaping areas, and roads. Upon completion, it will play a pivotal role in Türkiye's infrastructure for the development and production facilities of fifth-generation fighters."

https://www.tusas.com/medya-merkezi/Dergi?s=1&d=2024

 

[Spitfire9]

Ukraine’s Ambassador to Ankara, Vasiliy Bodnar, stated on CNN Türk that Ukraine plans to procure Turkish fifth-generation fighter jets, the KAAN, in the future.

This was reported by the Ukrainian aviation website Wings.

“Ukrainian experts are working within the framework of the project to create an engine for the Turkish national combat aircraft KAAN. This is not a new story. We have several experienced engine development companies,” Bodnar said.

Ukraine Plans to Buy Turkish KAAN fighters

Ukraine's Ambassador to Ankara, Vasiliy Bodnar, stated on CNN Türk that Ukraine plans to procure Turkish fifth-generation fighter jets, the KAAN, in the future

mil.in.ua

Anything in what he says? Is Ukrainian industry involved in developing an engine for KAAN?

On a different tack, first run of the TF6000 has been awaited for some time. Will it simply be announced when it has happened, rather than a date of national historical importance being chosen and announced in advance?

What is delaying Kaan's first flight

- required tests
- engineering problems
- problems revealed in taxi tests
- politics
- other

???

 

[Hasanrize]

Ukraine Plans to Buy Turkish KAAN fighters

Ukraine's Ambassador to Ankara, Vasiliy Bodnar, stated on CNN Türk that Ukraine plans to procure Turkish fifth-generation fighter jets, the KAAN, in the future

mil.in.ua

Anything in what he says? Is Ukrainian industry involved in developing an engine for KAAN?

On a different tack, first run of the TF6000 has been awaited for some time. Will it simply be announced when it has happened, rather than a date of national historical importance being chosen and announced in advance?

What is delaying Kaan's first flight

- required tests
- engineering problems
- problems revealed in taxi tests
- politics
- other

???

TF-6000 is waiting for matters related to engineering most probably. On the other hand, I can not claim the same for Kaan

 

[what]

I wouldnt overestimate the worth of words of an ambassador, it's part of his job.

 

[DBdev]

Patience, wait for March 18th Martyrs Commemoration and Çanakkale Victory Day for all these national defense project progress reports to be made public, all at once or in close succession.

 

[TheInsider]

Yeah, 18 March is the perfect date for showing off it is right before the local elections and the anniversary of Çanakkale/Dardanelles Victory.

 

[GoatsMilk]

I wouldnt overestimate the worth of words of an ambassador, it's part of his job.

realistically if you achieve what you set out to, half the world will probably want it.

 

[Baryshx]

Ukraine Plans to Buy Turkish KAAN fighters

Ukraine's Ambassador to Ankara, Vasiliy Bodnar, stated on CNN Türk that Ukraine plans to procure Turkish fifth-generation fighter jets, the KAAN, in the future

mil.in.ua

Anything in what he says? Is Ukrainian industry involved in developing an engine for KAAN?

On a different tack, first run of the TF6000 has been awaited for some time. Will it simply be announced when it has happened, rather than a date of national historical importance being chosen and announced in advance?

What is delaying Kaan's first flight

- required tests
- engineering problems
- problems revealed in taxi tests
- politics
- other

???

Provocative rhetoric and news before Putin's visit. For some reason, these news reports always come out when Turkiye and Russia are in talks and bilateral relations are being discussed. There is nothing to take seriously. Besides, there is 10 years for Kaan, so it is not the time.

By then, Putin and Erdogan will probably be gone. The strategic thinking and interests of the countries will change.

 

[DBdev]

KAAN has a trust to weight ratio of 1.07 =2x131,000/(14.150+3500)x9.81 with a very limited 3.5 ton payload.
Ratio is similar to F-18 and also Mig29K which uses STOBAR even without needing full length of the ship. Technically possible but where we will use aircraft carriers, I wonder. Carrier is like a billion dollar a year money pit in the sea. This money would be much more well spent acquiring nuclear weapons, hypersonic cruise missiles that give real security without costing billions each year to maintain...

Thrust to Weight Ratios of all Fighter Planes

TWR or T/W ratio = (Max Thrust of Engine / (Empty Weight + (3.505 Tonnes of Fuel & Weapons, or only Internal Fuel))) 1.30 - Su-35BM 1.29 - F-15K 1.26 - Su-27S 1.25 - Eurofighter 1.24 - Mig-35 1.23 - Su-27SK & J-11A 1.19 - Rafale C 1.19 - Mig-29M/M2 1.19 - F-15C 1.18 - F-22 (T/W = 1.37 with...

world-defense.com

 

[uçuyorum]

KAAN has a trust to weight ratio of 1.07 =2x131,000/(14.150+3500)x9.81 with a very limited 3.5 ton payload.
Ratio is similar to F-18 and also Mig29K which uses STOBAR even without needing full length of the ship. Technically possible but where we will use aircraft carriers, I wonder. Carrier is like a billion dollar a year money pit in the sea. This money would be much more well spent acquiring nuclear weapons, hypersonic cruise missiles that give real security without costing billions each year to maintain...

Thrust to Weight Ratios of all Fighter Planes

TWR or T/W ratio = (Max Thrust of Engine / (Empty Weight + (3.505 Tonnes of Fuel & Weapons, or only Internal Fuel))) 1.30 - Su-35BM 1.29 - F-15K 1.26 - Su-27S 1.25 - Eurofighter 1.24 - Mig-35 1.23 - Su-27SK & J-11A 1.19 - Rafale C 1.19 - Mig-29M/M2 1.19 - F-15C 1.18 - F-22 (T/W = 1.37 with...

world-defense.com

Thrust to weight ratio is one thing but you also need to consider wing area and stall speed, as well as the overall drag coefficient. 5th gen fighters are thick boys.

 

[Zafer]

KAAN has a trust to weight ratio of 1.07 =2x131,000/(14.150+3500)x9.81 with a very limited 3.5 ton payload.
Ratio is similar to F-18 and also Mig29K which uses STOBAR even without needing full length of the ship. Technically possible but where we will use aircraft carriers, I wonder. Carrier is like a billion dollar a year money pit in the sea. This money would be much more well spent acquiring nuclear weapons, hypersonic cruise missiles that give real security without costing billions each year to maintain...

Thrust to Weight Ratios of all Fighter Planes

TWR or T/W ratio = (Max Thrust of Engine / (Empty Weight + (3.505 Tonnes of Fuel & Weapons, or only Internal Fuel))) 1.30 - Su-35BM 1.29 - F-15K 1.26 - Su-27S 1.25 - Eurofighter 1.24 - Mig-35 1.23 - Su-27SK & J-11A 1.19 - Rafale C 1.19 - Mig-29M/M2 1.19 - F-15C 1.18 - F-22 (T/W = 1.37 with...

world-defense.com

We can make them cheaper. US makes equipment to be costly so that other nations can not catch up. But we made UAVs cheaper we can make ACs cheaper too. Our field of interest spans from the west of Africa to the east of Indian Ocean and we can use conventional propulsion to cover this span.

 

[BaburKhan]

Thrust to weight ratio is one thing but you also need to consider wing area and stall speed, as well as the overall drag coefficient. 5th gen fighters are thick boys.

I think not on the Carrier Kaan in Air Force Configuration will be deployed, rather a one engined multirole Variant of Kaan.

 

[boredaf]

I think not on the Carrier Kaan in Air Force Configuration will be deployed, rather a one engined multirole Variant of Kaan.

The more I think about it, the more I like the smaller, one engine version of TF-X. We can keep Kaan as our F-22 and offer 1 engine version for export. It's not like countries that would prefer our 5th gen plane over the others has any actual chance to get any of the others in the first place. This way, we could avoid getting paranoid about who might betray us and sell data about the plane to other countries, like Israel did with F-16 and China.

 

[Spitfire9]

We can make them cheaper. US makes equipment to be costly so that other nations can not catch up. But we made UAVs cheaper we can make ACs cheaper too. Our field of interest spans from the west of Africa to the east of Indian Ocean and we can use conventional propulsion to cover this span.

Why not just buy the right to use the British Queen Elizabeth II carrier design and build it in Turkiye? France considered doing that to replace its Charles de Gaulle carrier. Perhaps it is too large for Turkiye, though @ 65,000 tonnes. Cost of building the second carrier of that design was about 4 billion USD (including cost overrun of 500 million USD due to errors made during construction). Perhaps Turkiye could build one for less than 3 billion USD?

KAAN would need to be navalised which would not be costless but I think that BAE Systems has the knowledge required to do that. A flight deck of 284 metres would offer improved load-carrying STOBAR operation compared to a smaller vessel.

But why would Turkiye want a carrier? National prestige?

 

[Afif]

The more I think about it, the more I like the smaller, one engine version of TF-X. We can keep Kaan as our F-22 and offer 1 engine version for export. It's not like countries that would prefer our 5th gen plane over the others has any actual chance to get any of the others in the first place. This way, we could avoid getting paranoid about who might betray us and sell data about the plane to other countries, like Israel did with F-16 and China.

Single engine TFX would carry the same risk as 2 engine KAAN. I.g. F35 isn't any less sophisticated than F-22. Unless Turkey want to develop a very much downgraded version. Then it won't be proper 5th gen anymore.

And some countries do have alternative. Pakistan is planning to induct J-35. China pitching it to the gulf countries. So, Turkish system has to be qualitatively competitive. I would even say, make it so good that it would be a cost effective alternative of Tempset for countries that has dual options.