TR TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

Sanchez

Experienced member
Moderator
Think Tank Analyst
DefenceHub Diplomat
Messages
2,344
Reactions
79 10,743
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
source : Wiki
I don't think preliminary MTOW figures for updated( after 2020] Kaan were made public by TAI. Correct me if i'm wrong. When that 27000 figure was first touted, then TFX was to have 2 20k lbs engines. Specs for the design changed after 2019.
 

Afif

Experienced member
Moderator
Bangladesh Correspondent
DefenceHub Diplomat
Bangladesh Moderator
Messages
4,753
Reactions
94 9,089
Nation of residence
Bangladesh
Nation of origin
Bangladesh
F-22 wing area 78 sq m MTOW 37 tonnes
Kaan wing area 60 sq m MTOW 27 tonnes
source : Wiki

Can Kaan increase MTOW by 10 tonnes without needing a new wing?

Wiki is plain wrong on this. 27 tonnes is the gross weight.

Besides, it was explicitly memitoned by Temel kotil KAAN will carry 10 tonnes of payloads internally. (Fuel + weapons) F-22 carries around 9.5 tonnes internally.

Even F-35A has an MTOW of 29 tonnes.

Anybody with two Brian cells can figure that, massive twin engine KAAN is not lighter than an F-35.
 
Last edited:

boredaf

Contributor
Messages
1,409
Solutions
1
Reactions
16 3,918
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Turkey
F-22 wing area 78 sq m MTOW 37 tonnes
Kaan wing area 60 sq m MTOW 27 tonnes
source : Wiki

Can Kaan increase MTOW by 10 tonnes without needing a new wing?
Nah, our engineers don't know what they are doing that's why we are going for 2x35k engines on it. That's the answer you're looking for?
 

MADDOG

Contributor
Türkiye Correspondent
Professional
Messages
1,220
Reactions
31 8,007
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Cyprus
13.600 sq m warehouse that will serve the MMU project

Screenshot 2024-02-13 at 22.55.17.png



"On November 2, 2023, our executives and colleagues gathered for the ceremony. The B1031 Warehouse Building, whose construction process will be overseen by the Facilities Engineering, Planning and Investments Directorate under the Procurement and Industrialization Vice Presidency, will have a total indoor area of 3,970 sq m and a gross area of 13,600 sq m, including field concrete, landscaping areas, and roads. Upon completion, it will play a pivotal role in Türkiye's infrastructure for the development and production facilities of fifth-generation fighters."



 

Spitfire9

Contributor
Think Tank Analyst
Messages
550
Reactions
9 711
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
United Kingdom
Ukraine’s Ambassador to Ankara, Vasiliy Bodnar, stated on CNN Türk that Ukraine plans to procure Turkish fifth-generation fighter jets, the KAAN, in the future.

This was reported by the Ukrainian aviation website Wings.

“Ukrainian experts are working within the framework of the project to create an engine for the Turkish national combat aircraft KAAN. This is not a new story. We have several experienced engine development companies,” Bodnar said.


Anything in what he says? Is Ukrainian industry involved in developing an engine for KAAN?

On a different tack, first run of the TF6000 has been awaited for some time. Will it simply be announced when it has happened, rather than a date of national historical importance being chosen and announced in advance?

What is delaying Kaan's first flight

- required tests
- engineering problems
- problems revealed in taxi tests
- politics
- other

???
 
Last edited:

Hasanrize

Committed member
Messages
191
Reactions
5 545
Nation of residence
Finland
Nation of origin
Turkey

Anything in what he says? Is Ukrainian industry involved in developing an engine for KAAN?

On a different tack, first run of the TF6000 has been awaited for some time. Will it simply be announced when it has happened, rather than a date of national historical importance being chosen and announced in advance?

What is delaying Kaan's first flight

- required tests
- engineering problems
- problems revealed in taxi tests
- politics
- other

???
TF-6000 is waiting for matters related to engineering most probably. On the other hand, I can not claim the same for Kaan :)
 

DBdev

Committed member
Messages
298
Reactions
8 522
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Patience, wait for March 18th Martyrs Commemoration and Çanakkale Victory Day for all these national defense project progress reports to be made public, all at once or in close succession.
 

TheInsider

Experienced member
Professional
Messages
4,066
Solutions
1
Reactions
34 14,482
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Yeah, 18 March is the perfect date for showing off it is right before the local elections and the anniversary of Çanakkale/Dardanelles Victory.
 

Baryshx

Contributor
Messages
969
Reactions
8 2,070
Website
www.twitter.com
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey

Anything in what he says? Is Ukrainian industry involved in developing an engine for KAAN?

On a different tack, first run of the TF6000 has been awaited for some time. Will it simply be announced when it has happened, rather than a date of national historical importance being chosen and announced in advance?

What is delaying Kaan's first flight

- required tests
- engineering problems
- problems revealed in taxi tests
- politics
- other

???
Provocative rhetoric and news before Putin's visit. For some reason, these news reports always come out when Turkiye and Russia are in talks and bilateral relations are being discussed. There is nothing to take seriously. Besides, there is 10 years for Kaan, so it is not the time.

By then, Putin and Erdogan will probably be gone. The strategic thinking and interests of the countries will change.
 

DBdev

Committed member
Messages
298
Reactions
8 522
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
KAAN has a trust to weight ratio of 1.07 =2x131,000/(14.150+3500)x9.81 with a very limited 3.5 ton payload.
Ratio is similar to F-18 and also Mig29K which uses STOBAR even without needing full length of the ship. Technically possible but where we will use aircraft carriers, I wonder. Carrier is like a billion dollar a year money pit in the sea. This money would be much more well spent acquiring nuclear weapons, hypersonic cruise missiles that give real security without costing billions each year to maintain...

 

uçuyorum

Contributor
Messages
939
Reactions
13 1,546
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
KAAN has a trust to weight ratio of 1.07 =2x131,000/(14.150+3500)x9.81 with a very limited 3.5 ton payload.
Ratio is similar to F-18 and also Mig29K which uses STOBAR even without needing full length of the ship. Technically possible but where we will use aircraft carriers, I wonder. Carrier is like a billion dollar a year money pit in the sea. This money would be much more well spent acquiring nuclear weapons, hypersonic cruise missiles that give real security without costing billions each year to maintain...

Thrust to weight ratio is one thing but you also need to consider wing area and stall speed, as well as the overall drag coefficient. 5th gen fighters are thick boys.
 

Zafer

Experienced member
Messages
4,683
Reactions
7 7,389
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
KAAN has a trust to weight ratio of 1.07 =2x131,000/(14.150+3500)x9.81 with a very limited 3.5 ton payload.
Ratio is similar to F-18 and also Mig29K which uses STOBAR even without needing full length of the ship. Technically possible but where we will use aircraft carriers, I wonder. Carrier is like a billion dollar a year money pit in the sea. This money would be much more well spent acquiring nuclear weapons, hypersonic cruise missiles that give real security without costing billions each year to maintain...

We can make them cheaper. US makes equipment to be costly so that other nations can not catch up. But we made UAVs cheaper we can make ACs cheaper too. Our field of interest spans from the west of Africa to the east of Indian Ocean and we can use conventional propulsion to cover this span.
 

boredaf

Contributor
Messages
1,409
Solutions
1
Reactions
16 3,918
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Turkey
I think not on the Carrier Kaan in Air Force Configuration will be deployed, rather a one engined multirole Variant of Kaan.
The more I think about it, the more I like the smaller, one engine version of TF-X. We can keep Kaan as our F-22 and offer 1 engine version for export. It's not like countries that would prefer our 5th gen plane over the others has any actual chance to get any of the others in the first place. This way, we could avoid getting paranoid about who might betray us and sell data about the plane to other countries, like Israel did with F-16 and China.
 

Spitfire9

Contributor
Think Tank Analyst
Messages
550
Reactions
9 711
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
United Kingdom
We can make them cheaper. US makes equipment to be costly so that other nations can not catch up. But we made UAVs cheaper we can make ACs cheaper too. Our field of interest spans from the west of Africa to the east of Indian Ocean and we can use conventional propulsion to cover this span.
Why not just buy the right to use the British Queen Elizabeth II carrier design and build it in Turkiye? France considered doing that to replace its Charles de Gaulle carrier. Perhaps it is too large for Turkiye, though @ 65,000 tonnes. Cost of building the second carrier of that design was about 4 billion USD (including cost overrun of 500 million USD due to errors made during construction). Perhaps Turkiye could build one for less than 3 billion USD?

KAAN would need to be navalised which would not be costless but I think that BAE Systems has the knowledge required to do that. A flight deck of 284 metres would offer improved load-carrying STOBAR operation compared to a smaller vessel.

But why would Turkiye want a carrier? National prestige?
 

Afif

Experienced member
Moderator
Bangladesh Correspondent
DefenceHub Diplomat
Bangladesh Moderator
Messages
4,753
Reactions
94 9,089
Nation of residence
Bangladesh
Nation of origin
Bangladesh
The more I think about it, the more I like the smaller, one engine version of TF-X. We can keep Kaan as our F-22 and offer 1 engine version for export. It's not like countries that would prefer our 5th gen plane over the others has any actual chance to get any of the others in the first place. This way, we could avoid getting paranoid about who might betray us and sell data about the plane to other countries, like Israel did with F-16 and China.

Single engine TFX would carry the same risk as 2 engine KAAN. I.g. F35 isn't any less sophisticated than F-22. Unless Turkey want to develop a very much downgraded version. Then it won't be proper 5th gen anymore.

And some countries do have alternative. Pakistan is planning to induct J-35. China pitching it to the gulf countries. So, Turkish system has to be qualitatively competitive. I would even say, make it so good that it would be a cost effective alternative of Tempset for countries that has dual options.
 

Follow us on social media

Top Bottom