TR Foreign Policy & Geopolitics

[Scott Summers]

The US and NATO are our security backbone. The sooner people realize this, the better.

Security backbone?

How did they secure Turkey when we shot down that Russian plane?

 

[what]

The US, UK, EU and Arabs (Saudi Arabia, UAE) are also our biggest enemies. They are the heads of the snake who are trying to turn Turkiye into Afghanistan ruled by religious terrorist organizations and sects, who provoke the Kurds into separatism.

The same EU that pours billions into our country for decades, have their companies operate here, give us tax breaks so we can have 50% of our trade with the EU. The US, that has been stationing their nukes in our country for protection.

They must be terrible allies.

Let me tell you something, there is not only black and white, most of the time the world is grey.

You however choose to only see black, you only see the bad, because you choose too. The EU as an organization consists of dozen of countries, with changing governments every 4 years. Do you even know what the definition of an enemy is?

I'm glad that our military and foreign policy is not run by people like you. Although we had some duds in the past too.

 

[what]

Security backbone?

How did they secure Turkey when we shot down that Russian plane?

We're the only country that has ever shot down a Russian plane (this was before Ukraine war).
What did Russia do? They attacked us in Syria, where they could hide behind the Syrian Army and push the blame on them. The US, if someone dared to shoot down their plane would have retaliated hard, Russia did attack defenseless soldiers and blamed the SAA. The Americans annihilated an entire group of Wagner mercenaries for less. Thats all they could do, because attacking us directly would have meant war.

 

[Baryshx]

And Iran. But yeah I agree. The task ahead is being strong enough that messing with us is cost-prohibitive.

Yes, Iran. At least Iran does not use the Kurdish label. Because the same thing exists within Iran itself. But otherwise Iran would use the Kurds against us. It uses the Shia, Sunni and Wahabi nonsense.

The same EU that pours billions into our country for decades, have their companies operate here, give us tax breaks so we can have 50% of our trade with the EU. The US, that has been stationing their nukes in our country for protection.

They must be terrible allies.

Let me tell you something, there is not only black and white, most of the time the world is grey.

You however choose to only see black, you only see the bad, because you choose too. The EU as an organization consists of dozen of countries, with changing governments every 4 years. Do you even know what the definition of an enemy is?

I'm glad that our military and foreign policy is not run by people like you. Although we had some duds in the past too.

I did not deny this. The biggest factor in our development is Atatürk and our relations with these countries afterwards. But I perceived your article as if we should completely entrust our defense to these countries.

We are not the guardians and outposts of these countries. Against Russia, China and Iran...

 

[what]

But I perceived your article as if we should completely entrust our defense to these countries.

We are not the guardians and outposts of these countries. Against Russia, China and Iran...

No, but we should aim to have better relations with our allies. Positive agenda, steps in the right direction, like joining Sky Shield, even if its just for PR.

 

[Scott Summers]

We're the only country that has ever shot down a Russian plane (this was before Ukraine war).
What did Russia do? They attacked us in Syria, where they could hide behind the Syrian Army and push the blame on them. The US, if someone dared to shoot down their plane would have retaliated hard, Russia did attack defenseless soldiers and blamed the SAA. The Americans annihilated an entire group of Wagner mercenaries for less. Thats all they could do, because attacking us directly would have meant war.

That was not my question.

How did NATO and the US, our 'security backbones' help us after we shot that Russian plane?

Answer: They removed all their Patriot batteries.

 

[Baryshx]

No, but we should aim to have better relations with our allies. Positive agenda, steps in the right direction, like joining Sky Shield, even if its just for PR.

Allies are controversial, so-called Allies are more appropriate. I don't see these countries as Allies. A relationship at the level of mutual interests is enough. Same with relations with China, Russia and Iran. I am not in favor of Turkiye joining any pole, except Turkic Republics, Indonesia, Malaysia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, etc. Maybe Iran in the future if its governance system and leaders change.

 

[Afif]

That was not my question.

How did NATO and the US, our 'security backbones' help us after we shot that Russian plane?

Answer: They removed all their Patriot batteries.

They didn't. Spain kept it even after the deployment period ended. Italy deployed a new system. German, dutch & US Patriot deployment period ended. (All of it was predermined) They could have extended the deployment like Spain but they didn't because they had different threat assessment. However, NATO did explicitly state at the time that they will rapidly deploy necessary assets if situation escalates. There is no reason to believe it was a false promise.

 

[_Mu_]

Over the 2010s, Turkey has become a much more independent geopolitical player, but at the same time less predictable and does not correspond to the ideas of the United States in general about what kind of Turkey the US would like to see as a “model” for the Muslim countries of the Middle East. As the instability in the region increased, Turkey also no longer an “island of stability” for the US, but a source of new, often unexpected impulses on a regional scale.

It is evident that the Turks do not want to be sidelined by the US or the West when it comes to their own national security concerns. Neither do they want to be hamstrung by easily severed logistics. Clearly, they want to be, and have been thinking about becoming, important players in regional politics, and their public national security policy says as much. They have become involved at every opportunity in multi-national military interventions. They have shown a willingness to defy the US. They have industrial and procurement plans aimed at strategic autonomy.[32]

From strategic partnership to adversary​

Further information: Countering America's Adversaries Through Sanctions Act
The situation is set to deteriorate significantly after the passage of the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2019, with an amendment added by Senator John McCain requiring the Trump administration to submit a detailed report to Congress on the status of US–Turkey relations. The Department of Defense (DOD) submitted a mostly classified report to Congress in November 2018 followed by H.R. 648 which required the DOD report on the issue in 2019.[33] On 14 December 2020, the US listed Turkey as America's "Adversary" and consequently imposed restrictions against the Turkish Defence Industry Agency.[34] Before Turkey listed in CAATSA and barred from approaching new NATO technological development, Turkey was excluded from the joint F-35 project in Jul 17, 2019.[35] NBC reported that U.S. ejects Turkey from F-35 fighter jet program in the sign of worsening ties between Pentagon following Syria, Iraq wars.[36]

In 2018, the Council on Foreign Relations recommended “US needs to develop alternatives to Incirlik Air Base. The use of the base to advance U.S. interests is no longer assured.”[9] In 2019, US and Greece signed "Revised Defense Cooperation Agreement". The agreement was described as critical to responding to new security challenges in the eastern Mediterranean Sea. In 2021, a new agreement the "Greek-American Mutual Defense Cooperation Agreement" permitted the US military to use Georgula Barracks in Greece's central province of Volos, Litochoro Training Ground, and army barracks in the northeastern port city of Alexandroupoli apart from the naval base in Souda Bay in Crete which the US has been operating since 1969.[37] In short couple years, Turkey saw shifting NATO powers to its western neighbor. Anadolu Agency reported growing US military presence in Greece can lead to undesired scenarios in the Aegean ‘Deploying more US troops to Greece would disrupt NATO’s powers,’ [38] In 2021, Biden's recognition of the Armenian genocide reflects the dispensability of Turkey-US relations, on the other hand, Biden also emphasized the relations with Armenia.[39] After Azerbaijani blocking Zangezur corridor in 2023, American Enterprise Institute scholar Michael Rubin called Biden to act,[40] and talks with Armenia to establish a military base in the Zangezur corridor.[41] While Sep 11, 2023, a small contingent of US special forces trained Armenian soldiers during the "Eagle Partner" exercise in Armenia.[42]

On October 12, 2023, President Biden declared "particularly the actions by the Government of Turkey to conduct a military offensive into northeast Syria, undermines the campaign to defeat the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria, or ISIS, endangers civilians, and further threatens to undermine the peace, security, and stability in the region". Following this declaration President Biden reestablished Executive Order 13894 which stated Turkey is an unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States constituted by the situation in and in relation to Syria.[43] Following the 2023 Ankara bombing, Turkish intelligence officials established that the assailants arrived from Syria by paraglider,[44] where they had been trained. Six days before the declaration, Turkey began bombing their facilities in Syria, October 2023 Northern Syria clashes.[45] CJTF–OIR downed a Turkish drone, while doing airstrikes on PKK militants around Hassakeh which came within 500 m of American troops.[46] A day before the executive order made public, Turkey declared to intensify strikes on PKK in Iraq and Syria.[47]

According to Council on Foreign Relations, the United States needs to adjust its expectations, ask for less, and develop other options because Turkey only remains formally a NATO ally but not a partner of the United States.[9] Since the deterioration of the relationship, there has been growing Turkish-Russian security cooperation.[24]
ecurity backbone. The sooner people realize this, the better.

Turkey–United States relations - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Scott Summers]

They didn't. Spain kept it even after the deployment period ended. Italy deployed a new system. German, dutch & US Patriot deployment period ended. (All of it was predermined) They could have extended the deployment like Spain but they didn't because they had different threat assessment. However, NATO did explicitly state at the time that they will rapidly deploy necessary assets if situation escalates. There is no reason to believe it was a false promise.

I remember only the Dutch and German newspapers that the West should stay neutral and that this was not a NATO case because Turkey fired the first shot.

Different US senators spoke about the situation and they didnt spoke supportively.

NATO left Turkey alone.

 

[Bozan]

I remember only the Dutch and German newspapers that the West should stay neutral and that this was not a NATO case because Turkey fired the first shot.

Different US senators spoke about the situation and they didnt spoke supportively.

NATO left Turkey alone.

That doesn't sound like a consensus, only cherry picking. Some republicans are anti Ukraine aid too, some EU politicians are pro Putin

 

[Bozan]

AKP sacrificed relations with the west over the Muslim brotherhood and now does it to make gains in domestic politics by playing the population against foreign powers.

Someone who believes the foreign powers are to blame for everything won't suddenly listen to western media sources that are rightfully critical of the AKP when it comes to corruption, crime, human rights. The cultural war, Islamism. AKP want to shape the population into one that supports the AKP.

It is like a vaccination, or sedative. Maybe both. Authoritarian governments have done this since the dawn of time, despite governments in the EU changing - Erdogan did not.

 

[GoatsMilk]

The same EU that pours billions into our country for decades, have their companies operate here, give us tax breaks so we can have 50% of our trade with the EU. The US, that has been stationing their nukes in our country for protection.

They must be terrible allies.

Let me tell you something, there is not only black and white, most of the time the world is grey.

You however choose to only see black, you only see the bad, because you choose too. The EU as an organization consists of dozen of countries, with changing governments every 4 years. Do you even know what the definition of an enemy is?

I'm glad that our military and foreign policy is not run by people like you. Although we had some duds in the past too.

All those governments can change a thousand times over, the agenda to support the PKK balkanisation of our nation will not change no matter how many times the governments turn over. I don't know how old you are, but if you live another 50 years you will see this truth. At best a geopolitical situation can arise where they have to put it on the back foot to face the more immediate threat. Just like when the Soviet Union existed, they couldn't afford for Turkey to turn pro soviet, so they had to give us some favours, but as the soviet threat diminished and we grew in size and power the hostility to our nation escalated.

What's going on is a simple divide and conquer strategy that allows the enemy to pick her enemies off one by one. Tomorrow if Iran and Isreal entered all out war, for a period of time you will see Isreal and the USA turn into our best friends, until Iran is neutralised, once dealt with they will then turn on us. They needed us to get their pkkistan in iraq, they needed us to turn syria up side down to get their pkkistan there, well now they got two pieces of the puzzle its quite natural the agenda against us has escalated.

Just remember how hard they lobbied/pressured us to join against Assad and then once they used us, they turned us into the biggest problem in the region. No longer about assad but about the Turks hindering the Kurds ability to fight the fiction that is isis. Isis whose only existence is as big or as small as the americans choose it to be.

While all this is happening their international media is humanising and propagandising on behalf of the pkk while at the same time doing everything to dehumanise and delegitimise the Turkish state and her people. This is a co-ordinated agenda and if you cannot see it now, when you do see it then it will be too late.

As we become more proactive to defend our core interests the Americans/Europeans and their global lackeys have become more active in countering us. Whats important is that we aware of the games against us, so that the state can counter it.

 

[Bozan]

All those governments can change a thousand times over, the agenda to support the PKK balkanisation of our nation will not change no matter how many times the governments turn over. I don't know how old you are, but if you live another 50 years you will see this truth. At best a geopolitical situation can arise where they have to put it on the back foot to face the more immediate threat. Just like when the Soviet Union existed, they couldn't afford for Turkey to turn pro soviet, so they had to give us some favours, but as the soviet threat diminished and we grew in size and power the hostility to our nation escalated.

What's going on is a simple divide and conquer strategy that allows the enemy to pick her enemies off one by one. Tomorrow if Iran and Isreal entered all out war, for a period of time you will see Isreal and the USA turn into our best friends, until Iran is neutralised, once dealt with they will then turn on us. They needed us to get their pkkistan in iraq, they needed us to turn syria up side down to get their pkkistan there, well now they got two pieces of the puzzle its quite natural the agenda against us has escalated.

Just remember how hard they lobbied/pressured us to join against Assad and then once they used us, they turned us into the biggest problem in the region. No longer about assad but about the Turks hindering the Kurds ability to fight the fiction that is isis. Isis whose only existence is as big or as small as the americans choose it to be.

While all this is happening their international media is humanising and propagandising on behalf of the pkk while at the same time doing everything to dehumanise and delegitimise the Turkish state and her people. This is a co-ordinated agenda and if you cannot see it now, when you do see it then it will be too late.

As we become more proactive to defend our core interests the Americans/Europeans and their global lackeys have become more active in countering us. Whats important is that we aware of the games against us, so that the state can counter it.

Disagree. You're framing it wrong.

Have you considered that Turkey bombs the fuck out of the SDF and critical infrastructure every week and the US/EU says nothing publicly? They have made more statements over Israel's bombing of Gaza

There is no such support for PKK-istan except paranoia which is causing self-inflicted harm to our foreign policy.


Doesn't matter what Erdogan says publicly, he needs the US to stay in the middle east.

 

[_Mu_]

AKP sacrificed relations with the west over the Muslim brotherhood and now does it to make gains in domestic politics by playing the population against foreign powers.

Someone who believes the foreign powers are to blame for everything won't suddenly listen to western media sources that are rightfully critical of the AKP when it comes to corruption, crime, human rights. The cultural war, Islamism. AKP want to shape the population into one that supports the AKP.

"a lot of us don't think of the Turks in that way is because they have been taking a little bit of a break from history uh their defeat at the end of World War I was so dramatic uh and shattered their political and economic orders that they basically uh pulled the welcome mat in and kind of fell in upon themselves for most of the last century and it's only with the rise of

Spoiler: Spoiler

uh the current president Erdogan

um in recent decades that they they've started to emerge and they're kind of relearning the world around them and discovering it's a lot messier than they remember the EU changing ."
Peter Zeihan is for sure an AKP Troll

I'm currently reading several books about Turkey, in addition to most articles or analyses on Turkey from Western think tanks. Every day, I find it fascinating to learn about what your country has achieved in the last two decades and how it has literally transformed in almost every aspect. The future appears very bright for you.
While attending webinars, I've noticed that, although not entirely free of bias, they differ significantly from mainstream media. Typically, the presenters are experts whose sole job is to study the topic at hand. Once the analysis concludes, they might address potential biases and discuss how to engage with Turkey based on their own interests. Interestingly, the one point on which almost all of them agree, and seemingly find reassuring, is a quote I regularly encounter in the various books I read as well.
"Turkey now has among the world’s most acute and advanced cases of societal polarization "

 

[Scott Summers]

Disagree. You're framing it wrong.

Have you considered that Turkey bombs the fuck out of the SDF and critical infrastructure every week and the US/EU says nothing publicly? They have made more statements over Israel's bombing of Gaza

There is no such support for PKK-istan except paranoia which is causing self-inflicted harm to our foreign policy.


Doesn't matter what Erdogan says publicly, he needs the US to stay in the middle east.

No support for PKKistan?

Did you sleep in a cave in Afghanistan or wat?

What the hell was that whole Sweden-PKK argument about then? Or why did the US took our drone down? What is the US doing in Syria anyway with the SDF? Why is the PKK a charity organisation in Europe?

Please read something about it, and dont write that childish bullshit here.

 

[Iskander]

Do you ever stop to think? Hmm maybe if the Europeans are scared, we should be too at least a bit?

Because the Americans and Brits are our biggest allies in the NATO.
And the alternative to NATO is a EU led project which we are definitely not part of.

We won't be accepted into the EU?! Let be. Maybe we should try to accept this entire European Union!!! I remember Sultan Suleiman seemed to be trying. And it came to Vienna

But seriously, this is a Christian club.

Russia is at enmity with the West, not with us. She cannot be at enmity with the whole world at the same time. From Finland to Georgia, the entire Russian border with Europe is closed. Türkiye is the only way out for Russia! 40% of Russian trade passes through the Black Sea through Istanbul. The Russians are trying to solve their 1000-year-old problem with the hostile West - let them solve it. What do we care?
We must never forget November 24, 2015, the day when a Türkiye F16 shot down a Russian Su24. And then, how these NATO “allies”, primarily the USA, reacted to this! Washington made it clear that it does not intend to fight with Russia over Turkey, but will provide ammunition. Allies! Now it's Ankara's turn to say the same. Let them fight. What do we need?! As for fear, what is there to be afraid of? Later, when they start to intimidate us, we will still have time to get scared

 

[Bozan]

No support for PKKistan?

Did you sleep in a cave in Afghanistan or wat?

What the hell was that whole Sweden-PKK argument about then? Or why did the US took our drone down? What is the US doing in Syria anyway with the SDF? Why is the PKK a charity organisation in Europe?

Please read something about it, and dont write that childish bullshit here.

That was about Sweden's laws on freedom of speech

That drone was about a drone coming too close to a US military base

US is preventing Iran from taking over Syria by controlling crucial territory. If Iran takes that territory, they have a direct route from Iran to every country in the middle east, including Israel. They don't trust the rebels as capable partners.

If they wanted to establish PKK-istan all they'd have to do is bomb Assad and the rebels and let the SDF take it. They don't. In Iraq they do very little as well. It's in America's interest that Iran doesn't have a route or pipeline to Syria. America is also not just one person, so they may have contradicting policies.

Most countries in the EU don't have it listed as a charity organisation of the PKK legally

There isn't a big support for the PKK in EU governments. If there was, the situation would be so different.

 

[Bozan]

"a lot of us don't think of the Turks in that way is because they have been taking a little bit of a break from history uh their defeat at the end of World War I was so dramatic uh and shattered their political and economic orders that they basically uh pulled the welcome mat in and kind of fell in upon themselves for most of the last century and it's only with the rise of

Spoiler: Spoiler

uh the current president Erdogan

um in recent decades that they they've started to emerge and they're kind of relearning the world around them and discovering it's a lot messier than they remember the EU changing ."
Peter Zeihan is for sure an AKP Troll

I'm currently reading several books about Turkey, in addition to most articles or analyses on Turkey from Western think tanks. Every day, I find it fascinating to learn about what your country has achieved in the last two decades and how it has literally transformed in almost every aspect. The future appears very bright for you.
While attending webinars, I've noticed that, although not entirely free of bias, they differ significantly from mainstream media. Typically, the presenters are experts whose sole job is to study the topic at hand. Once the analysis concludes, they might address potential biases and discuss how to engage with Turkey based on their own interests. Interestingly, the one point on which almost all of them agree, and seemingly find reassuring, is a quote I regularly encounter in the various books I read as well.
"Turkey now has among the world’s most acute and advanced cases of societal polarization "
View attachment 65674

Are you aware of how expensive food is and how bad our institutions have become ?

Societal polarization, I wonder how that happened. Could it be due to the things I've said about Erdogan using the Ministry of Propaganda Communications against the domestic population? That he fully utilizes state resources to his benefit during elections ?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1357431626066722825

"Secular - looking women bots"


When twitter took down massive amounts of bots a few years ago Fahrettin made a statement saying that Turkey was being targeted lol.

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN23J28L/

Russia, China and Turkey made up the vast majority of bots.

 

[I_Love_F16]

Russia is at enmity with the West, not with us

Who killed our soldiers in Syria then ? Do you guys have some memory issues or what ?