TR Foreign Policy & Geopolitics

[Ryder]

In the game of geopolitics.

The West and Russia are not your friends.

Investments and trade does not mean friendship.

Get this through your heads.

 

[GoatsMilk]

"a lot of us don't think of the Turks in that way is because they have been taking a little bit of a break from history uh their defeat at the end of World War I was so dramatic uh and shattered their political and economic orders that they basically uh pulled the welcome mat in and kind of fell in upon themselves for most of the last century and it's only with the rise of

Spoiler: Spoiler

uh the current president Erdogan

um in recent decades that they they've started to emerge and they're kind of relearning the world around them and discovering it's a lot messier than they remember the EU changing ."
Peter Zeihan is for sure an AKP Troll

I'm currently reading several books about Turkey, in addition to most articles or analyses on Turkey from Western think tanks. Every day, I find it fascinating to learn about what your country has achieved in the last two decades and how it has literally transformed in almost every aspect. The future appears very bright for you.
While attending webinars, I've noticed that, although not entirely free of bias, they differ significantly from mainstream media. Typically, the presenters are experts whose sole job is to study the topic at hand. Once the analysis concludes, they might address potential biases and discuss how to engage with Turkey based on their own interests. Interestingly, the one point on which almost all of them agree, and seemingly find reassuring, is a quote I regularly encounter in the various books I read as well.
"Turkey now has among the world’s most acute and advanced cases of societal polarization "
View attachment 65674

Just remember most westerners talk nothing but bullshit when it comes to Turkey. If you form your understanding on Turkey, its dynamics and its history based on western accounts you will be gravely misinformed of the reality.

Peter zion once said that women in Turkey have to wear the Hijab.

And for all the polarization we don't have problems of men claiming they are women or vice versa yet. We are not yet fighting over american shit like pronouns. Also when it comes to bigger picture, like when the Russians bombed our troops pretty much the entire nation was onboard with war. Only AK party wasn't.

Actually that's one thing westerners always fail to see, they think because the people either hate or like a politician that it effects the wider picture. A good example even those who hate erdogan, support pretty much all the military incursions. When it came to Azerbaijan, 95% of the country supported what Azerbaijan did. We are not actually all that polarised when it comes to bigger picture.

But in terms of this government, they have been a near total failure. Without riding/using religion to manipulate and cling to power, they would have been gone a long long time ago. And in history their has been charlatans using religion for their own personal benefit.

Actually one the best ways for an English speaker to understand Turkey and Turks is probably this very forum.

 

[mehmed beg]

That was about Sweden's laws on freedom of speech

That drone was about a drone coming too close to a US military base

US is preventing Iran from taking over Syria by controlling crucial territory. If Iran takes that territory, they have a direct route from Iran to every country in the middle east, including Israel. They don't trust the rebels as capable partners.

If they wanted to establish PKK-istan all they'd have to do is bomb Assad and the rebels and let the SDF take it. They don't. In Iraq they do very little as well. It's in America's interest that Iran doesn't have a route or pipeline to Syria. America is also not just one person, so they may have contradicting policies.

Most countries in the EU don't have it listed as a charity organisation of the PKK legally

There isn't a big support for the PKK in EU governments. If there was, the situation would be so different.

There is no bug support in EU for PKK and if their us , the things would be different? How?
Freedoms and shaping the society?;
DeutcheWelle justified the random Israeli massacres of Palestinians?
How many people loost their jobs and sometimes the livelihoods for what amounts of verbal delict in UK?
Turkey bombs the sh out of ppkistan and ot is not mentioned as much as Gaza? Has Turkey killed 15000 children in 4 months?
No embargos on Turkey due to the interventions in Syra and Iraq ?
What? You are justifying shooting down of Turkish drone, because it was close to the American base? How close USA planes fly to Turkey while in Incirlik?
Seemingly, you have something positive to say , how you put it TR, only when it is in regards of Iran?
I wonder why?
It is only what you dislike, that's all of your discourse.
Everything is black and white for you and nothing in between.

 

[Scott Summers]

That drone was about a drone coming too close to a US military base

If they wanted to establish PKK-istan all they'd have to do is bomb Assad and the rebels and let the SDF take it. They don't. In Iraq they do very little as well. It's in America's interest that Iran doesn't have a route or pipeline to Syria. America is also not just one person, so they may have contradicting policies.

There isn't a big support for the PKK in EU governments. If there was, the situation would be so different.

The PKK is tolerated in the European Union but they use different names. They have libraries, meetings, foundations and when you step into their buildings you can see their flags and paintings of Öcalan.

You cant open a library or foundation with symbols of Al Qaida or a big picture of Osama Bin Laden on the wall. Dont try that even with Nasrallah or Sheich Yassin.

Yes in theory they are forbidden but practice is more important and if you lived in Europe you know that. They can freely open bankaccounts or crowdfundings. They have the same privileges like FETÖ even FETÖ is not registred as a tertorist organisation.

In theory Turkey has good relations with Russia and Egypt but in practice the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood and the anti-Kadirov Chechens can do what they want in Turkey.

They shot our drone because they were afraid that it would target the SDF, they didnt shoot it down to protect theirselves. Why would Turkey bomb American soldiers?

I have 3 questions for you:

1. So you are justifying the shooting of our drone, because we came to close to their base?

2. You are denying that the Western world is tolerating the PKK despite they are designated as a terrorist organisation?

3. Are you even Turkish? Or a supporter of the State?

 

[what]

Everyone's of course free to share their opinions, but I cant take anyone serious that is taking sides with Russia. Now with the Ukraine war or even before.

 

[GoatsMilk]

There is no bug support in EU for PKK and if their us , the things would be different? How?
Freedoms and shaping the society?;
DeutcheWelle justified the random Israeli massacres of Palestinians?
How many people loost their jobs and sometimes the livelihoods for what amounts of verbal delict in UK?
Turkey bombs the sh out of ppkistan and ot is not mentioned as much as Gaza? Has Turkey killed 15000 children in 4 months?
No embargos on Turkey due to the interventions in Syra and Iraq ?
What? You are justifying shooting down of Turkish drone, because it was close to the American base? How close USA planes fly to Turkey while in Incirlik?
Seemingly, you have something positive to say , how you put it TR, only when it is in regards of Iran?
I wonder why?
It is only what you dislike, that's all of your discourse.
Everything is black and white for you and nothing in between.

talking of Gaza and the genocide taking place there with american/european explicit support, Muslims and Turks should never forget that the PKK project is part of the greater isreal project.

Zionists are slaughtering literally thousands of children, day and night. No worries about human rights abuses from germany or france, no worries about sanctions or embargoes from the USA or Canada. In fact its sold in the west as good thing, the Muslims are sold to the west as worth less then animals. Just listen to that rat ben shapiro or the rest of those zionist f'king shitheads. Prominent zionists in the background are working day and night to cultivate the impression that islam is a threat. Its a dehumanisation process that is engineered to allow isreal to slaughter in the middle east with impunity. Listen to shitheads like sam harris or gad saad as examples. A very dark and insidious agenda is taking place against all Muslims. But all of this isnt just for what remains of Palestine, its for the future wars Isreal will conduct on her neighbours. It also works indirectly to stop a nation like Turkey fighting the the PKK. Because they cultivated we are bad, we are evil, but these marxist freedom fighters are the wests friends.

Its all connected and its long range plan in play.

A hundred years ago no Isreal existed. Here we are today and they are on the verge of extinguishing Palestine completely and they don't even hide their ambitions to expand from the nile to the Euphrates. While all this genocide is taking place and bashful talks of imperialism is on show, who do the zionists call their good friends. The Kurdish separatists are their good friends.

But Kurds remember if they make it to our border, when the time is right they will simply annex you and there will be no Turkish strengh to do anything about it. Just like Palestine today, they sided with the British against the Turks, well now they're being wiped out and their nothing anyone can do about it.

You break the legs of Turkey, islam as a civilisation is finished.

 

[_Mu_]

Just remember most westerners talk nothing but bullshit when it comes to Turkey. If you form your understanding on Turkey, its dynamics and its history based on western accounts you will be gravely misinformed of the reality.

Peter zion once said that women in Turkey have to wear the Hijab.

And for all the polarization we don't have problems of men claiming they are women or vice versa yet. We are not yet fighting over american shit like pronouns. Also when it comes to bigger picture, like when the Russians bombed our troops pretty much the entire nation was onboard with war. Only AK party wasn't.

Actually that's one thing westerners always fail to see, they think because the people either hate or like a politician that it effects the wider picture. A good example even those who hate erdogan, support pretty much all the military incursions. When it came to Azerbaijan, 95% of the country supported what Azerbaijan did. We are not actually all that polarised when it comes to bigger picture.

But in terms of this government, they have been a near total failure. Without riding/using religion to manipulate and cling to power, they would have been gone a long long time ago. And in history their has been charlatans using religion for their own personal benefit.

Actually one the best ways for an English speaker to understand Turkey and Turks is probably this very forum.

Unfortunately, this comment of yours is very strange to me. What do you mean that Western sources (think tanks , research institutes, published papers ,books from experts ..etc ) do not mean anything ? Do you know that you can learn information about your country from these sources much more reliably than from anywhere else? Did you know that they host dedicated Turkish researchers from all fields? Most Western universities have specialized studies departments for each country, including Turkey, of course, and don't you know that those research institutions is spent on with budgets of foreign ministries ?
Did you know that it is very common for guests to be a former American ambassador or the position responsible for the Turkish affairs in the US State Department, or even a former director of the CIA or a former US national security advisor who gives 4-hour lecture on one topic about the Turkish issue?
Is this anything but indisputable?
they are completely permeated throughout the political and sometimes governmental classes in most of the “Allied” countries, even the powerful ones, as well as of course those who are new to power like Turkey. Wouldn't it interest you if you looked at the old WikiLeaks documents about Turkey if you went back in time to 2006, as I remember, until 2009? when he says, “Our informant in such and such a party or in such and such a circle told us, and this person described him as such and such.”

And now it is not even difficult at all to deal with Turkish affairs in Turkish or any other language, with the presence of AI with any simple tool that automatically translates all the content on any Internet page into any language without interference.
In general, my observations increased in confidence and confirmation after I added to my sources forums in which I find Turks. Normal people talk , whether here on this blog or on social media like Twitter, especially Reddit. Although I find a lot of nonsense here on the topic of politics, which is completely separate from the rest of the topics, I find more on Twitter, and do not let me talk about the Turkish Reddit, which contains a million people. In general, thank you for your interaction. This confirms my convictions even more.

 

[GoatsMilk]

urkish or any other language, with the presence of AI with any simple tool that automatically translates all the content on any Internet page into any language without interference.
In general, my observations increased in confidence and confirmati

Its simple, most western analyses of Turkey are pure bullshit. Its that simple. Take it from someone who knows Turkey and her history. 95% of time i read anything from a western institution or expert, its so heavily laced with agenda and propaganda that its mind numbing. In fact its entirely predictable what they will say and how they will frame it.

So don't get hooked on western think tanks, or western experts, most of them are parrots who push regional agenda. No more.

 

[Bozan]

The PKK is tolerated in the European Union but they use different names. They have libraries, meetings, foundations and when you step into their buildings you can see their flags and paintings of Öcalan.

You cant open a library or foundation with symbols of Al Qaida or a big picture of Osama Bin Laden on the wall. Dont try that even with Nasrallah or Sheich Yassin.

Yes in theory they are forbidden but practice is more important and if you lived in Europe you know that. They can freely open bankaccounts or crowdfundings. They have the same privileges like FETÖ even FETÖ is not registred as a tertorist organisation.

In theory Turkey has good relations with Russia and Egypt but in practice the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood and the anti-Kadirov Chechens can do what they want in Turkey.

They shot our drone because they were afraid that it would target the SDF, they didnt shoot it down to protect theirselves. Why would Turkey bomb American soldiers?

I have 3 questions for you:

1. So you are justifying the shooting of our drone, because we came to close to their base?

2. You are denying that the Western world is tolerating the PKK despite they are designated as a terrorist organisation?

3. Are you even Turkish? Or a supporter of the State?

This requires a much longer answer for context but it comes down to:

1.) The Americans justified shooting it down due to them not knowing who it belonged to and it coming too close to their base. That's what they said. Now if the Americans were shooting down our drones to protect the SDF - do you know how many drone missions we have run where they haven't shot down a single drone? It is difficult to now say this 0.2% of the total represents the American position. The Americans are trying to solve a different problem in Syria and the only thing we disagree on with them is the method. BTW, we know exactly where Mazloum lives, we know his house and we know where he is. Think about that.

2.) We said support earlier, not tolerate, this moves the goal posts. These are different things. You can argue the west also tolerates MEK and a whole host of civilians forms of dissidents/terrorist organizations etc the way Turkey tolerated Hamas. This comes down to the individual states changing their laws on the kind of organization that exist. The EU has tackled these crowdfunding methods before, like the Hawala network. However, the legal procedure is complicated and it has to be followed. If it doesn't work, there needs to be a desire to change the law. EU doesn't face the need to create this desire.

3.) I am not a supporter of Erdogan, if you are saying Erdogan = The State.

 

[_Mu_]

Its simple, most western analyses of Turkey are pure bullshit. Its that simple. Take it from someone who knows Turkey and her history. 95% of time i read anything from a western institution or expert, its so heavily laced with agenda and propaganda that its mind numbing. In fact its entirely predictable what they will say and how they will frame it.

So don't get hooked on western think tanks, or western experts, most of them are parrots who push regional agenda. No more.

It seems that we are talking from completely different perspectives. My friend, I agree with you that there is some truth in what you are saying, but this confident generalization, excuse me, may be absurd. I know that with continuous research, you will learn that there are different factors and contexts, such as mainstream media, political leanings, and regional interests. There are media outlets like CNN, NBC, and Fox, then there are news agencies like BBC and Reuters, then there are magazines like The Economist, Foreign Policy, and The National Interest, and then there are think tanks like Carnegie and the Center for Strategic and International Studies, and so on. You will learn that even at the most balanced level, you will look for the author. You will easily understand their views and credentials, and you will learn the timing of the topic, whether it is during elections or a specific crisis. You will analyze the information, filter it, and decide what to accept and reject. For example, when they say that Turkey should be expelled from NATO for reasons of press freedom and increasing authoritarianism, that is one thing, and when you say it, they also say it is for adopting such-and-such policies in this or that region. Is it the same thing for us in this or that situation? You will learn that when they say that it was democratic, good, and open until 2007, then it became non-democratic, you will go and investigate what happened in 2007 that made them say that. And so on.

 

[GoatsMilk]

It seems that we are talking from completely different perspectives. My friend, I agree with you that there is some truth in what you are saying, but this confident generalization, excuse me, may be absurd. I know that with continuous research, you will learn that there are different factors and contexts, such as mainstream media, political leanings, and regional interests. There are media outlets like CNN, NBC, and Fox, then there are news agencies like BBC and Reuters, then there are magazines like The Economist, Foreign Policy, and The National Interest, and then there are think tanks like Carnegie and the Center for Strategic and International Studies, and so on. You will learn that even at the most balanced level, you will look for the author. You will easily understand their views and credentials, and you will learn the timing of the topic, whether it is during elections or a specific crisis. You will analyze the information, filter it, and decide what to accept and reject. For example, when they say that Turkey should be expelled from NATO for reasons of press freedom and increasing authoritarianism, that is one thing, and when you say it, they also say it is for adopting such-and-such policies in this or that region. Is it the same thing for us in this or that situation? You will learn that when they say that it was democratic, good, and open until 2007, then it became non-democratic, you will go and investigate what happened in 2007 that made them say that. And so on.

I would take all western media and put in the shitter. All of them without fail propagandise and push american regional agenda. None of them care about giving you any truth about Turkey unless that truth can serve their agenda.

Most of those think tanks are no better, most of them are connected to anglo-american global agenda. You can read about this in the "anglo-american establishment"

I woke up from the illusion of western media a long time ago, maybe one day you will too. But take it from someone who is Turkish, born, raised and educated in England that most of what the west tells or shows you about Turkey is pure bullshit.

 

[Angry Turk !!!]

It seems that we are talking from completely different perspectives. My friend, I agree with you that there is some truth in what you are saying, but this confident generalization, excuse me, may be absurd. I know that with continuous research, you will learn that there are different factors and contexts, such as mainstream media, political leanings, and regional interests. There are media outlets like CNN, NBC, and Fox, then there are news agencies like BBC and Reuters, then there are magazines like The Economist, Foreign Policy, and The National Interest, and then there are think tanks like Carnegie and the Center for Strategic and International Studies, and so on. You will learn that even at the most balanced level, you will look for the author. You will easily understand their views and credentials, and you will learn the timing of the topic, whether it is during elections or a specific crisis. You will analyze the information, filter it, and decide what to accept and reject. For example, when they say that Turkey should be expelled from NATO for reasons of press freedom and increasing authoritarianism, that is one thing, and when you say it, they also say it is for adopting such-and-such policies in this or that region. Is it the same thing for us in this or that situation? You will learn that when they say that it was democratic, good, and open until 2007, then it became non-democratic, you will go and investigate what happened in 2007 that made them say that. And so on.

What's your point dude, why are you yapping about my Country?

 

[_Mu_]

I would take all western media and put in the shitter. All of them without fail propagandise and push american regional agenda. None of them care about giving you any truth about Turkey unless that truth can serve their agenda.

Most of those think tanks are no better, most of them are connected to anglo-american global agenda. You can read about this in the "anglo-american establishment"

I woke up from the illusion of western media a long time ago, maybe one day you will too.

What I say does not contradict what you are saying at all. Do you think they do it because they love you? Or because they want to be mean to you? Do they spend all that money and resources to benefit you?

On the contrary, unlike most of us, they make sure they have the right picture because they are built on systems and institutions. The more accurate picture they have, the better they can deal with you. Mainstream media and its propaganda is a tiny portion of what I’m talking about. The public consumption material is one thing, and the studies and research for their own institutions and policy makers is a completely different thing.

 

[_Mu_]

What's your point dude, why are you yapping about my Country?

There is no specific point. I came across the replies and tried to engage respectfully as I can. There is no yapping at all in my reply. On the contrary, I love your country and its great history and its people, and that’s why I’m learning about it and decided to dedicate my postgraduate studies to it.

 

[wolveray1]

Allies have no value in case of war if they are on the other end of the globe, unless they are called the United States or Tier 2 countries such as the UK.

The US and NATO are our security backbone. The sooner people realize this, the better.

You don't need allies.
You just need nukes.
That is the biggest deterrent ever.

 

[wolveray1]

If Russia without nukes,most likely Nato will attack them during current Ukraine and Russia war.
Same thing with North Korea.
Thats the biggest reason why Iran is trying to get nukes.

 

[Barry]

If you wanted to know about Turks or Turkiye and all you had were Western sources, you'd think we tried to exterminate every greek, Armenian, Arab, Syrian, European etc but hey the food is nice (but actually it's stolen from the Greeks) and Izmir has nice beaches for cheap holidays, but watch out for terror attacks.

Western presentation of Turks, Turkish culture and Turkish history is so laced with racist orientalism, so saturated with inherited prejudice and historic grievance, so smothered with projected weakness and daddy issues, that taking them as any sort of authority on who we are as a people is suicide.

 

[Ryder]

If you wanted to know about Turks or Turkiye and all you had were Western sources, you'd think we tried to exterminate every greek, Armenian, Arab, Syrian, European etc but hey the food is nice (but actually it's stolen from the Greeks) and Izmir has nice beaches for cheap holidays, but watch out for terror attacks.

Western presentation of Turks, Turkish culture and Turkish history is so laced with racist orientalism, so saturated with inherited prejudice and historic grievance, so smothered with projected weakness and daddy issues, that taking them as any sort of authority on who we are as a people is suicide.

Westerners think belly dancing comes from Turkiye when in reality it comes from Egypt.

Those orientalist paintings are all bullcrap. Most of those painting are done by artists who never went to the Ottoman empire.

None of them went to Turkiye and the Middle East.

The wars they have against Turks they basically painted them as either black or brown. Turks represented the forces of the dark.

 

[YeşilVatan]

A simple yet very effective test for any source on Turkey is their ability to put forward any distinction between the interests of Erdoğan and the interests Turkish Republic as a whole.

Most of the time they imply all the issues with the Aegean region, EastMed, Cyprus, Syria, PKK, islamism, mass migration and even economy are caused by Erdoğan. Then they go on to say if he is gone Turks would be on board with their Sevres level bullshit. If you see that implication, you just close tab and disregard that opinion. Also if they call FETÖ a conspiracy theory, Gülen a cleric, or the coup attempt fake I immediately register that source as BS.

I find this to be a very accurate way to gauge a platform's validity when it comes to Turkey-related issues.

EDIT: A small note; You will be very, very disappointed with the performance of western media when you use this test.

 

[GoatsMilk]

A simple yet very effective test for any source on Turkey is their ability to put forward any distinction between the interests of Erdoğan and the interests Turkish Republic as a whole.

Most of the time they imply all the issues with the Aegean region, EastMed, Cyprus, Syria, PKK, islamism, mass migration and even economy are caused by Erdoğan. Then they go on to say if he is gone Turks would be on board with their Sevres level bullshit. If you see that implication, you just close tab and disregard that opinion. Also if they call FETÖ a conspiracy theory, Gülen a cleric, or the coup attempt fake I immediately register that source as BS.

I find this to be a very accurate way to gauge a platform's validity when it comes to Turkey-related issues.

EDIT: A small note; You will be very, very disappointed with the performance of western media when you use this test.

Even then its clear why they do that and they know why they are doing that. They created the perception in the western world that erdogan is a nutty islamist. So buy attaching these critical geopolitical interests to his name, they completely delegitimise Turkeys concerns while at the same time legitimising all hostile intent against our nation. Its a bit like the zionists reducing 70 years of oppression and genocide into one event October 7th. Everything before that becomes irrelevant, while justifying the genocide they are committing now.

Also another illusion they create is the concept of a highly polarised society in totality. Yes in some things no doubts. There are those who hate political islamists and their nonsense, their are islamists who hate everything secular. However, when it comes to the wider geopolitical picture these groups are all on the same page. In many ways we maybe are the most united nation on earth when it comes to the wider geopolitical picture. No western media wants to tell its readers this, that by supporting the PKK nearly the entire nation will be united against it.

Next to one is going to tolerate any of the treaty of sevres games on Turkey. They support the PKK, nearly the entire nation is against it. You want to unilaterally push that the entire agean and east med belongs to greece, then its war. In these issues there is next to no polarization whatsoever.