TR UAV/UCAV Programs | Anka - series | Kızılelma | TB - series

[TheInsider]

Wont it be redundant already
Shouldnt he focus his resources in other areas?
TEI is already producing the TEI-TF6000 engine and according to rumors, it is already performing way better than expected

Baykar wants to produce turbofan engines for their own products there are reasons for that. They won't compete with TEI and they can't.
Baykar might be sanctioned in the future which means Baykar might lose access to TEI engines.
Baykar is also afraid of government change. It can effect their relations with companies like TEI, TUSAS and Aselsan.
Baykar is competing with TUSAS. TUSAS owns TEI. TUSAS has platforms like ANKA 3/4 and it won't be a surprise if a Kızılelma competitor appears. I don't think Baykar and TUSAS are getting TF6000 from TEI at the same price as TUSAS literally owns TEI.

 

[Anmdt]

While it may seem redundant to have two jet engine producers/developers, it can also benefit Turkiye through competition i.e. Baykar vs TAI.

Baykar has a ton of money and they need to invest it to increase shareholder value (instead of paying it out to investors as dividends). Fergani Space and now this jet engine venture seems to be good business choices. I am still waiting for Baykar's big push into the civilian domain.

I do not think Haluk Bayraktar is referrring to a TF-6000 class engine, or altogether he might be referring to TF-10000 that is planned in future versions of KE but i do also know this is not the first time Baykar is attempting to step into motor business. Last time they did, some "unfortunate events" have occurred.

 

[Sanchez]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1797202487599866237

Interesting words from Haluk Bayraktar. According to him, Baykar is developing a turbofan engine that will be ready for serial production in 5 years. Some people say he talks about TF-6000 but the schedule is too long for TF-6000.

How is it too long? 5 years figure directly correlates with Erdogan’s own words re TF-6000 last year.

 

[neosinan]

From a country that never produced a turbofan engine a few years ago to a country with two turbofan companies...

They will probably not produce engines in parallel with TEI.
TEI TF6.000-10.000
TEI TF(?24.000?)-35.000

Baykar, possibly f404 equivalent
TF11.000-18.000
And
They will produce turbojet engines for all the munitions they will produce.

Edit: It's not information I've heard or read, I just wrote my guesses.

I would have liked it to be like that, since I thought from the very beginning that the KIZILELMA would be perfect with the f404 engine.

That is the only case, I can see this is good news other than referring to TF6k/10k. In any case, We will wait and see.

 

[TheInsider]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1798077881731670283

 

[Oublious]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1798077881731670283

looks ready to me...

 

[Bogeyman]

While it may seem redundant to have two jet engine producers/developers, it can also benefit Turkiye through competition i.e. Baykar vs TAI.

Baykar has a ton of money and they need to invest it to increase shareholder value (instead of paying it out to investors as dividends). Fergani Space and now this jet engine venture seems to be good business choices. I am still waiting for Baykar's big push into the civilian domain.

Baykar is not traded on the stock exchange. They are a family company in every sense of the word.

 

[Radko]

Guys please check out Haluk Bayraktars interview on Capital dergi

 

[Osman]

Very striking. He said:

They will invest 300 million dollars for Kızılelma's engine. They are planning to start mass production within 4 5 years.

They designed an indigeneous engine for tb 2 namely BM 100 and they are planning to produce 20 engines in 2024. The engine of tb3 is produced in TEI

Annual production (Number of ucavs) in 2024

250 TB 2 (it was 10 at the beginning)
20 TB 3 ( will be 50 in 2025)
50 Akıncı (It was 12 in 2023)
12 Kızılelma (will be 48 in 2026)

and at least 1,5 billion dollars of new investment for next 5 years

actual staff numbers: more than 4 500. 2000 of them are engineers and 2 500 technician.

 

[Heartbang]

ast time they did, some "unfortunate events" have occurred.

What were those events?

 

[moz68k]

What if the thrust class of Baykar's engine is the same as TF-6000, the only difference being attritability? It might be the approach Baykar is going for.

 

[BalkanTurk90]

Very striking. He said:

They will invest 300 million dollars for Kızılelma's engine. They are planning to start mass production within 4 5 years.

They designed an indigeneous engine for tb 2 namely BM 100 and they are planning to produce 20 engines in 2024. The engine of tb3 is produced in TEI

Annual production (Number of ucavs) in 2024

250 TB 2 (it was 10 at the beginning)
20 TB 3 ( will be 50 in 2025)
50 Akıncı (It was 12 in 2023)
12 Kızılelma (will be 48 in 2026)

and at least 1,5 billion dollars of new investment for next 5 years

actual staff numbers: more than 4 500. 2000 of them are engineers and 2 500 technician.

Thats some questions born , first why Baykar dont want tf 6000 for kizilema?
Second , how powerful will be their own engine?
Third , does baykar see tai/tei as competitor , and want all its product money for themself ?

 

[Agha Sher]

Thats some questions born , first why Baykar dont want tf 6000 for kizilema?
Second , how powerful will be their own engine?
Third , does baykar see tai/tei as competitor , and want all its product money for themself ?

Maybe Baykar has had enough by The turtle pace of TAI and TEI when it comes to mass production. Baykar will produce 300+ drones in 2024 while TEI most likely can only deliver a few dozens (at most to Baykar).

I am really starting to like the way Baykar is heading. They identify the weakest link in their supply chain and decide to insource it and do a better job at it

Selcuk is a really gifted engineer and leader.

 

[Afif]

Maybe Baykar has had enough by The turtle pace of TAI and TEI when it comes to mass production. Baykar will produce 300+ drones in 2024 while TEI most likely can only deliver a few dozens (at most to Baykar).

Bro what? TEI is developing gas turbine technology with domestic research from start to end. That means developing an entire eco-system including all the associated technologies. Baykar will just copy paste the old Ukrianian tech and license produce it. And even to set up that production line and build the necessary manpower, it will take 5 years. These are not comparable.

 

[Strong AI]

We proudly float arm in arm in the sky!

#HÜRJET 66th sortie
#ANKA III 8th sortie
50 minutes flight time, 7,000 feet altitude, 165 knots speed

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1798418494192808089

 

[boredaf]

We proudly float arm in arm in the sky!

#HÜRJET 66th sortie
#ANKA III 8th sortie
50 minutes flight time, 7,000 feet altitude, 165 knots speed

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1798418494192808089

Still can't believe we have a flying wing drone going through flight tests. It'll be a large throbbing middle finger to a lot of countries when Anka 3 goes into serial production, especially if it is with TF6000. Second only to Kaan in its importance, imo.

 

[Agha Sher]

Bro what? TEI is developing gas turbine technology with domestic research from start to end. That means developing an entire eco-system including all the associated technologies. Baykar will just copy paste the old Ukrianian tech and license produce it. And even to set up that production line and build the necessary manpower, it will take 5 years. These are not comparable.

TAI and TEI Excel in R&D, however, have so far failed in the serial production phase. TEI has developed many engines (PD series etc.) but the production output is simply too low and slow.

This must be frustrating for Baykar since they have already developed an alternative to the PD series, and are now looking to develop alternatives to the TF series.

again, Baykar produces 300+ drones this year. TEI can only supply a fraction of the needed engines.

 

[Rodeo]

TAI and TEI Excel in R&D, however, have so far failed in the serial production phase. TEI has developed many engines (PD series etc.) but the production output is simply too low and slow.

This must be frustrating for Baykar since they have already developed an alternative to the PD series, and are now looking to develop alternatives to the TF series.

again, Baykar produces 300+ drones this year. TEI can only supply a fraction of the needed engines.

How do you know TEI's production capability is the bottleneck? What gave you that impression?

I seriously doubt that Baykar will develop turbine engines from scratch. The technologies that goes into these engines are orders of magnitude more advance than drone production and take decades to master.

We should wait for a bit to have more details about Baykar's ambitions to speculate more accurately.

 

[YeşilVatan]

Still can't believe we have a flying wing drone going through flight tests. It'll be a large throbbing middle finger to a lot of countries when Anka 3 goes into serial production, especially if it is with TF6000. Second only to Kaan in its importance, imo.

I believe Kızılelma is tied with KAAN as the most promising Turkish aviation project to date. Not because it's better, but because there is a chance that Kızılelma will have vastly superior conops design and easier production. It will sell like crazy. Just needs one A2A kill and floodgates will be wide open.

Selçuk Bey has a chance to revolutionize air warfare by making advanced capabilities accesible, just like how TB2 did the same with precision strikes. My guess is, he aims to make something that will dominate 4th gen fighters and do SEAD/DEAD. If that goal is achieved, then keeping a competent air power will be significantly easier for friends of the Turkish Republic. Off the shelf A2A and SEAD/DEAD capability.

Of course that's if he can actually manage to do it. I hope it happens. I may even sacrifice a goat when it happens.

 

[B_A]

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