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TR UAV/UCAV Programs | Anka - series | Kızılelma | TB - series

Zafer

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12 Kızılelma per year. Ideally we would want 24 per year just for TuAF. They'll play an important role as a stop-gap solution until Kaan is ready.

Hopefully weapons tests begin soon.


Building the fuselage is quite easy and can be done at higher rate. But high end avionics supplied by Aselsan alone and also the engines are much more complicated and takes longer to produce.
 

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ASELSAN General Manager Mr. Ahmet AKYOL:
🔹Flight tests of the MURAD AESA radar on Unmanned combat aerial vehicles and F-16s have yielded extraordinary results and preparations for the serial production of the radar are continuing.
🔹One of the biggest challenges in the development of MURAD-100A was fitting the radar into the narrow nose cone of the F-16 and AKINCI.
🔹To overcome these challenges, extensive thermal and mechanical design studies were carried out, as well as RF and digital design, testing and verification processes.
 
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Agha Sher

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12 kızılelmas for this year is rather ambitious seeing as it hasn't flown in a while and hasn't done any weapons tests.

Ambitious, yes. However, your reasoning is flawed. Just because we haven't seen it doesn't mean it didn't happen. A project like KE was bound to enter extreme secrecy at some point. Head of SSB did confirm some month ago that KE had concluded flight tests.
 

Zafer

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12 kızılelmas for this year is rather ambitious seeing as it hasn't flown in a while and hasn't done any weapons tests.

what i dont get is why is baykar so insistent on making its own engines. both piston and turbofan. Like, isn't tei's pd112 or whatever it was supposedly very competitive? I recall watching a presentation by a tei official covering weight to power and power loss at altitude for their pd engines, the dude was very proud and all.

I genuinely don't get the baykar turbofan involvement. It's a humongous undertaking. At first glance it seems like a waste spending such r and d budgeting on a product already underway in research by a state corp. Does baykar think they can leapfrog tei and make it faster? Or that they can achieve more thrust for the same size? Maybe they just dont have faith tei can deliver in the necessary numbers.

It'd be fine if they weren't competing at all like kale arge's rocket engines...but this just seems wasteful. I don't think "competition is good" applies at this level of budget required.
It is not wasteful but necessary: TEI is 46% GE for one thing. Add to this the possibility of a government change and a new government makes up reasons to put a stop to engine supply to Baykar. We have seen similar things in the past of Türkiye, stop the Turks from inside, "aviation is wasteful".

All countries that want to play a sizable role in aviation have more than just one aviation engine makers.
 
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YeşilVatan

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It is not wasteful but necessary: TEI is 46% GE for one thing. Add to this the possibility of a government change and a new government makes up reasons to put a stop to engine supply to Baykar. We have seen similar things in the past of Türkiye, stop the Turks from inside, "aviation is wasteful".

All countries that want to play a sizable role in aviation have more than just one aviation engine makers.
If you like the government, TAI is seen as susceptible to political change. Baykar is much more durable in that regard.

If you don't like the government, Baykar is susceptible to political change, and TAI is better in that regard.

Diversification seems good in both situations, only negative is resource management but Baykar doesn't even use state funds so that's a non-issue.
 

Zafer

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If you like the government, TAI is seen as susceptible to political change. Baykar is much more durable in that regard.

If you don't like the government, Baykar is susceptible to political change, and TAI is better in that regard.

Diversification seems good in both situations, only negative is resource management but Baykar doesn't even use state funds so that's a non-issue.
Under the current government both TAI and Baykar are shining stars.
Under another government both companies may turn into dead stars.
 

UkroTurk

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Under the current government both TAI and Baykar are shining stars.
Under another government both companies may turn into dead stars.
TAI had been always shining star but i agree with that BAYKAR would not gather fruits of TAI,TUSAS.
 

Zafer

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TAI had been always shining star but i agree with that BAYKAR would not gather fruits of TAI,TUSAS.
I don't see how TAI was a shining start as it was doing nothing before they were ordered to make planes by the current government. What fruits did TUSAŞ make so that Baykar could eat?
 
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UkroTurk

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I don't see how was TAI a shining start as it was doing nothing before they were ordered to make planes by the current government. What fruits did TUSAŞ make so that Baykar could eat?
Look, does it look familiar to you? İt is obvious TB-2 project was a gift from Erdoğan to them.

 

Zafer

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Look, does it look familiar to you? İt is obvious TB-2 project was a gift from Erdoğan to them.

Around the world amateur individuals used to make such scale model planes, useless stuff.

Baykar made the TB2 by converting a full size plane into a remotely controlled one.

Erdoğan needed a plane like the TB2 and it was a gift from Baykar to Erdoğan.
 
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Agha Sher

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Look, does it look familiar to you? İt is obvious TB-2 project was a gift from Erdoğan to them.


Rediculus. TAI has so far failed to bring it's projects to a mass manufacturing state. Anka, Anka II, Hurkus, T-625 etc., are all produced in low volume or not serial produced at all.

TAI is a R&D organization and they have a really hard time to transform into a serial production organization.

As the days pass by and the circus at TAI becomes more evident, it is clear that Baykar is the only prime Turkish aviation company. I am really worried for Hurjet and KAAN as well.
 

uçuyorum

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Rediculus. TAI has so far failed to bring it's projects to a mass manufacturing state. Anka, Anka II, Hurkus, T-625 etc., are all produced in low volume or not serial produced at all.

TAI is a R&D organization and they have a really hard time to transform into a serial production organization.

As the days pass by and the circus at TAI becomes more evident, it is clear that Baykar is the only prime Turkish aviation company. I am really worried for Hurjet and KAAN as well.
Anka should already be 100+ going by tail numbers.
 

Agha Sher

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Anka has been painfully slow. When customers place orders for 4-6 units they need to wait 2-3 years to receive them. Aksungur mass production is even more painful.
Anka should already be 100+ going by tail numbers.
 

Yasar_TR

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This is the gist of the KE news, being discussed here. The date may be current and fresh; but the content appears to be outdated and somewhat open to argument and logically suspect.

KE has not gone beyond prototype stage yet. It needs a hell of a lot of testing before it can be in a position for mass production. Timeline wise this may have happened.
But we should know that with the engine it has performed its initial flight, it is as anaemic as KAAN with f110 engines, if not worse.
It won’t come to it’s own until it has the TF6000 or at least a 5500lbf level thrust AI322F inside that fuselage.

Baykar is definitely more proactive and responsive than TAI. They are a private concern that specialise in UAVs. They need to be turning their investment in to profit as quickly as they can. That is a big advantage.
But even they are subject to time restriction that come with aerospace engineering production.
Akinci performed first flight in early Dec2019 and first production line unit appeared in late May 2021
KE had its first flight in 2022. With Baykar’s speed of development it is due for mass production.
But as pointed out above with that weak engine, it is not clever to introduce it as a product.
Let us look at the specs given on the above news piece:

Bayraktar Kızılelma specs​

  • Türkiye’s first jet engined fighter jet.
  • (Not really a spec and as it is still not in inventory. So not correct)
  • 5 hour flight time
  • (Valid good point)
  • 1500 kg useful payload
  • (Valid point. But should be more with TF6000)
  • 0.6 mach cruise speed
  • (Doesn’t say much. Sustained top speed is also important)
  • 6000 kg MTOW
  • (Valid point. Should be more with TF6000)
  • 35000 ft operational attitude
  • (Too low for such a plane. 45-50000ft should be achievable)
  • 500 Nm operational radius
  • (LOS 150Nm achievable. BLOS with Satcom, it is OK)
  • TCG Andolu type ships STOL capability
  • (Yet to be seen. For future carrier it is feasible)
  • Otonomous take off and landing.
  • (important point)
  • Low Radar Silhouette
  • (Important point. Should be top of the list as a spec)
  • High manoeuvrability.
  • (Important for LOS flight)
  • LOS and BLOS communications capability
  • (Important spec. )
  • High Situational Awareness with AESA radar
  • (Important point - should be higher than last)
These specs seem like fairly old. A higher value max altitude like 45000+ ft and top speed of 0.95 Mach should be part of the real specs of this plane.
This is a real game changer of a plane that we will have. We should have an engine that is commensurate with such a force multiplier. Even an engine like GE-f404 wouldn’t be out of place for this aircraft; if we can get the license production of it.
This plane may well be the real defence against Rafale and V70 F16s until our KAAN is operational. We need a good engine to propel it.

1718985813127.jpeg
 
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fushkee

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I’m still thinking many things about this bird. Ram painting, titanium body, dog fight capabilities, etc.
or else it will treat like shaped Akinci UAV??
 

Kartal1

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Rediculus. TAI has so far failed to bring it's projects to a mass manufacturing state. Anka, Anka II, Hurkus, T-625 etc., are all produced in low volume or not serial produced at all.

TAI is a R&D organization and they have a really hard time to transform into a serial production organization.

As the days pass by and the circus at TAI becomes more evident, it is clear that Baykar is the only prime Turkish aviation company. I am really worried for Hurjet and KAAN as well.
A ridiculous statement...
 

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